Was Jason always undead/a zombie?
Watching part 6, and Tommie Jarvis says that Jason drowned in Crystal Lake in 1957. That's why they had to trap him back in the lake. It was his original resting place.
shareNo, he was human until part 6 where he was resurrected by lightning. If he was always a zombie he would have remained a child after the drowning, but he didn't he grew into a grown man. In part 2 during the campfire speech Paul explains they never found his body in the lake and that some say he survived and was living off the land, fully grown by now.
Plus look back at parts 2-4 he clearly felt pain and could be hurt, Chris stabbed him in the knee in part 3 and he groaned in pain and fell to the ground holding his knee, and he had a limp afterwards. In part 6 after he's resurrected he no longer feels pain, and Tommy even says "He's even more powerful now" referring to Jason now being unread and no longer able to feel pain or be killed.
"No, he was human until part 6 where he was resurrected by lightning."
Him coming up out of the lake and pulling Alice into the water at the end of part 1 proves he was undead.
"If he was always a zombie he would have remained a child after the drowning"
Says who? Did you read that in the "Official Rule Book for the Undead"? Also, "zombie" isn't the right term, as Jason neither fits the George Romero zombie definition nor the earlier voodoo zombie definition. Jason fits the definition of a revenant or "undead."
If his corpse at the bottom of Crystal Lake can have its rotted-away flesh regenerated after 23 years, whatever supernatural force was responsible for that could also accelerate his growth into adulthood (growth and regeneration work on the exact same principle), which would make him a more effective killer. He also kept getting bigger in each movie until he was Kane Hodder's size in part 7.
"Plus look back at parts 2-4 he clearly felt pain and could be hurt"
So? He had a regenerated body, and a body includes nerves. By the way, the machete through his shoulder at the end of part 2 was an inevitably fatal wound because it would have severed a major artery (subclavian), but since he's still alive in part 3, that's another proof that he was undead all along. The axe to the head at the end of part 3 was inevitably fatal too, and he was even verified as dead by medical professionals and put into a morgue drawer in the beginning of part 4, yet he walked out of the hospital and went on a killing spree, again proving he was undead all along.
"Says who? Did you read that in the "Official Rule Book for the Undead"?"
No, just going by literally every incarnation of zombie from books, movies, and tv since the beginning of their time, a zombie/undead has never aged or grew, they're dead so they're body ceases to grow and change its that simple. Theres literally never been a movie or show where a zombie grows and ages like a normal person.
"By the way, the machete through his shoulder at the end of part 2 was an inevitably fatal wound because it would have severed a major artery (subclavian), but since he's still alive in part 3, that's another proof that he was undead all along"
That proves nothing, that happens in slasher movies all the time with human villains, at the end of The Stepfather he takes a butchers knife to the heart and he's alive and well in part 2. The killers always come back from what would be fatal wounds, thats just how horror movies work, theres no logic to them.
Also if he was always undead why was he suddenly so much different in part 6 after being resurrected? he couldn't run no more, he couldn't feel pain no more, he could be shot and not feel a thing. Yet in parts 2-4 he was always stopped by pain and able to be hurt cause he was human. What did he level up to a new form of undead? lol ok...
Plus in all the documentaries even the writers and fans always refer to Jason as zombie Jason in part 6 and onward but refer to him as human in parts 2-4. The machete to the head in part 4 killed him, which is why he was a corpse for years buried, if he was always undead he wouldn't have been a dusty rotting corpse.
Theres a reason why his skin is normal looking and no bones or anything are showing from him in parts 2-4, and in parts 6 and on his body gets more and more rotted and decayed showing bones and deteriorated flesh, because he's an undead corpse in parts 6-10.
"No, just going by literally every incarnation of zombie from movies and tv since the beginning of their time, a zombie/undead has never aged or grew, they're dead so they're body ceases to grow and change its that simple. Theres literally never been a movie or show where a zombie grows and ages like a normal person."
Movies that aren't part of the Friday the 13th series are utterly irrelevant. And Jason isn't a zombie. He's neither controlled by voodoo nor does he eat people (and being shot in the head doesn't kill him; see part 6).
"That proves nothing"
Yes, it does. Surviving an inevitably fatal injury = supernatural, period.
"that happens in slasher movies all the time with human villains, at the end of The Stepfather he takes a butchers knife to the heart and he's alive and well in part 2. The killers always come back from what would be fatal wounds, thats just how horror movies work, theres no logic to them."
Again, other movies are utterly irrelevant, as they don't take place in the F13 universe. With any given movie, "like reality unless noted" applies, and in F13 it is never noted that injuries which are inevitably fatal to ordinary humans in reality, are not inevitably fatal in the F13 universe. So when someone survives an inevitably fatal injury it means the same thing as it would if such a thing happened in reality, i.e., supernatural.
"Also if he was always undead why was he suddenly so much different in part 6 after being resurrected? he couldn't run no more, he couldn't feel pain no more, he could be shot and not feel a thing. Yet in parts 2-4 he was always stopped by pain and able to be hurt cause he was human."
In the first 4 movies he was regenerated various times, and then functioned more or less like an ordinary human, powered biologically by his regenerated body. Starting with part 6 he was reanimated, meaning he was powered by some unknown force, which is how he was able to walk around even though his body was a rotted corpse, bones showing and everything, which is biologically impossible. Once he's supernaturally animated, he has supernatural strength and feels no pain, because every cell in his body is dead, meaning he has no functioning nerves, obviously.
"Plus in all the documentaries even the writers and fans always refer to Jason as zombie Jason in part 6 and onward but refer to him as human in parts 2-4."
Utterly irrelevant. Only onscreen information is relevant.
"The machete to the head in part 4 killed him, which is why he was a corpse for years buried, if he was always undead he wouldn't have been a dusty rotting corpse"
That only means that whatever supernatural force was regenerating him prior to that, abandoned him. Then some other opportunistic force (or perhaps the same force, but with a new approach) took charge of the situation when he was dug up, and had a better method of bringing him back to "life."
Paul's story in part 2 clearly tells you Jason is human, when the writers decided to bring him back and make Jason the killer they had Paul explain how he's back. And Paul tells us his body was never recovered from the lake and that some people say he's still out there surviving off the land, living off wild animals, stealing what he needs, full grown by now. He never said he's undead or supernaturally powered, he described a wild human living in the woods.
They was clearly saying he survived drowning and decided to stay away from people and live on his own like an animal in the woods. He was just a mentally challenged deformed boy, who grew into adulthood on his own in the woods surviving off animals and stealing things. Then he saw his mother was killed by Alice and that set him off into his killing spree.
I will say you could say he has regenerative abilities surviving everything he survived, they even bring that up in Jason X, but that doesn't make him undead or a zombie in parts 2-4.
"Paul's story in part 2 clearly tells you Jason is human"
Paul said that Jason is just a legend, which is obviously false within the context of the movie. Additionally, he said that Jason drowned and that's the end of it, which is also obviously false. Paul is an unreliable narrator, which is the only thing he can be, given that he's in no position to know that the things he's saying are facts. He didn't see Jason come up out of the water like Alice and Rennie did, and he didn't see Jason get out of the morgue drawer after taking an axe to the head, or go on a killing spree in part 3 with a severed subclavian artery (which is utterly impossible in natural terms; he would have bled to death in 2 minutes or less).
"when the writers decided to bring him back and make Jason the killer they had Paul explain how he's back. And Paul tells us his body was never recovered from the lake and that some people say he's still out there surviving off the land, living off wild animals, stealing what he needs, full grown by now. He never said he's undead or supernaturally powered, he described a wild human living in the woods."
See above.
"They was clearly saying he survived drowning and decided to stay away from people and live on his own like an animal in the woods. He was just a mentally challenged deformed boy, who grew into adulthood on his own in the woods surviving off animals and stealing things. Then he saw his mother was killed by Alice and that set him off into his killing spree."
They were speculating, obviously. See above.
"I will say you could say he has regenerative abilities surviving everything he survived, they even bring that up in Jason X, but that doesn't make him undead or a zombie in parts 2-4."
He's undead because he died in 1957. Decades later, still in child form, he attacked Alice (as seen in part 1) and Rennie when she was a child (as seen in part 8) while they were in the lake. Those events alone prove that he's undead. Also, LOL at you continuing to use the term "zombie," a term which has zero relevance to the F13 series.
"He's undead because he died in 1957. Decades later, still in child form, he attacked Alice (as seen in part 1) and Rennie when she was a child (as seen in part 8) while they were in the lake. Those events alone prove that he's undead. Also, LOL at you continuing to use the term "zombie," a term which has zero relevance to the F13 series."
Lol those was dream sequences ffs, Tom Savini, Sean Cunningham, Ari Lehman, all have stated it was a dream sequence. They have stated many many times that him grabbing Alice was just a rip off of the Carrie dream sequence. Also if he was a child when he attacked Alice in the boat, how did he suddenly grow into a grown man months later and kill her in her house? What you're saying makes no sense.
And what the hell am i supposed to call him after part 6? literally everyone refers to him as zombie Jason, he's a reanimated corpse walking around, zombie, undead they both mean the same thing.
I agree. I've never considered that scene at the end of part 1 to have any relevance to any of the sequels. It was a final jump scare, not supposed to be anything more. All horror movies of that time seemed to end with a scene like that.
I really don't know when I think Jason was a zombie, but I do think that he was human in Part 2. I do tend to agree that it was 6 when he was full on zombie, but I really don't think that the writers planned anything, so who knows. I think that they were just playing it by ear and it was more of a case of "what do you think would happen if we did this?"
"Lol those was dream sequences ffs, Tom Savini, Sean Cunningham, Ari Lehman, all have stated it was a dream sequence. They have stated many many times that him grabbing Alice was just a rip off of the Carrie dream sequence."
It doesn't matter what they said, because they screwed up. I posted about this recently, so I'll just repost it here:
People know the difference between their dreams and reality. Someone who didn't (and I doubt such a person exists) wouldn't even be able to function in society. For example, if they dreamt they got fired from their job, they wouldn't go into work anymore. Or what if they dreamt they could fly (which is a common dream) and tried to fly off their balcony the next morning? The idea of someone who confuses the events in their dreams for reality is utterly absurd, and if you're going to place a character like that into a work of fiction, it has to be established that they have such a bizarre and unheard of condition. Alice was depicted as a normal person.
If the filmmakers intended for that to be a dream sequence then they screwed up by having Alice believe it was real, and onscreen information trumps their intentions, i.e., in the context of the movie it was real, not a dream.
Furthermore, Rennie (from part 8) was also attacked by child-form Jason in the lake, and she certainly wasn't asleep/dreaming, given that she had just been pushed into the water by her uncle.
"Also if he was a child when he attacked Alice in the boat, how did he suddenly grow into a grown man months later and kill her in her house?"
Rapid regeneration and rapid growth work exactly the same way, i.e., in both cases rapid building of new cells is required. Growing into a man in a couple months is no more or less marvelous than regenerating flesh after decaying on the bottom of a lake for 23 years.
"And what the hell am i supposed to call him after part 6? literally everyone refers to him as zombie Jason,"
No, not "literally everyone". Only people who don't know what a zombie is do that.
"he's a reanimated corpse walking around, zombie, undead they both mean the same thing."
So a vampire is a zombie too? The Friday the 13th movies are "zombie movies"? "Zombie" is a specific type of undead, just as "vampire" is, and Jason isn't a zombie. share