MovieChat Forums > Murder on the Orient Express (1974) Discussion > 12 Angry Men (Spoilers)

12 Angry Men (Spoilers)

posted 4 years ago by MrFilmJunkie (859)
7 replies | jump to latest

so sidney lumet's first movie was about 12 jurors where 11 of them first voted a defendant to be guilty for murder, while the one who found the defendent not guilty is able to convince the other jurors during the course of the movie.

murder on the orient express is about a murder case where it's assumed that one of the 12 people in the wagon is the murderer, but it turns out that all 12 have murdered him altogether.
is this connection between the two movies a mere coincidence or did lumet choose to adapt the agatha christie book because he thought that would be a great meta joke in his filmography?

[–] Ace_Spade (9391) 4 years ago

I think it's more likely that both stories are just using the jury as a symbol of justice and a motif.

Of course, Christie wrote her story years before Lumet did his, so maybe he was thinking of her. I'm sure he was familiar with her work. But this could easily be coincidence.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Still, OP's thought is rather delicious to think about . Two Lumet films 17 years apart, centered on 12....

[–] Ace_Spade (9391) 2 years ago

Anything's possible, yeah. Without more evidence - an interview snippet, for instance, or even more similarities and parallels (more than just coincidence) between the two films.

Now, if they were released 12 years apart...

[–] roreyking (559) 2 years ago

Funny how people will perceive some significance in what is a minor and coincidental similarity.

In the commentary, Lumet says he did the movie bc he wanted to do something (as he unfortunately put it) “gay”. Screenwriter Paul Dean certainly came up with an entertaining take on the book. I believe it was Lumet’s idea to have an international all-star cast. He originally wanted Alec Guinness for Poirot, then Paul Scofield. Both were unavailable. So he went with another top-flight British actor, Finney.

Lumet approached Sean Connery before anyone else bc he knew if Connery was on board, it would be easier to get other prominent actors to sign on. He originally wanted Bergman for the old princess, but she insisted on playing the Swedish missionary. Lumet said he’d have cast he as Poirot if she’d wanted it, as long as he had her in his cast.

[–] MichaelJPollock (651) 2 years ago

"Funny how people will perceive some significance in what is a minor and coincidental similarity."
I don't know... I think OP is on to something. Many of Lumet's films are about the workings of the Law, the justice system and the judgment of our peers. 12 Angry Men, Serpico, Prince of New-York, Running on Empty, Night Falls on Manhattan, The Verdict, Q&A... It' definitely a running theme in his filmography.

[–] roreyking (559) 2 years ago

The OP suggests that Lumet chose to make Orient Express as a “metajoke” since he’d already done a jury movie. (As if someone would choose to direct a massive enterprise like a major studio film for such a trivial reason) You’re saying something different: that many of Lumet’s movies have a legal theme (though most of the movies you list don’t deal with “judgment of our peers”, as you assert.). That’s true, but that wasn’t the OP’s point.

BTW: It’s Prince of the City, not Prince of New-York [sic]. Great film.

[–] MichaelJPollock (651) 2 years ago

"It’s Prince of the City, not Prince of New-York [sic]. Great film."
Haha! Yeah, thanks. Confused it with the French title (or with Ferrara's King of 'New York' maybe...). Fantastic film.

I'm not so sure either about the meta joke myself. But I can see what could have drawn Lumet -consciously or not- to direct Murder on the Orient Express based on the themes I mentioned.

"Though most of the movies you list don’t deal with “judgment of our peers”, as you assert."
Mmmh. I think they do. It's cool too if we disagree though.