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What was the Oldest Civilisation on Earth?


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Generally considered to be Mesopotamia, isn't it?

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I never knew if they are the Sumerians or some other usual suspect.

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Sumerians were part of Mesopotamia, weren't they? It's a long time since I read about this stuff.

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I never read about this part. what about the Egyptians?

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Egyptian civilisation came a bit later than Mesopotamia, but is still one of the earliest -- along with the Indus Valley People and China. People congregated around fertile river valleys, basically.

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Can the Egyptians be called the first great civ?

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Wiki page for more useful overview than you're likely to get from a poster here... especially me, who is only half-remembering this stuff : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_civilization

And the answer to your question is: I suppose it depends how we define 'great'? I dunno.

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Thanks!

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"Great" perhaps determined by which had the most global influence.

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Sumer

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The Dutch. There are older congregations of men but you should not call them civilized.

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I thought they were called the Flemish.

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Those aren't civilized

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Bedrock.

There is actual televised proof with Fred Flintstone, Wilma, Barney, Betty, etc.

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That was before my time though.

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Indus Valley & Sumer appear to be the oldest

https://www.worldhistory.org/timeline/civilization/

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Thanks for this. I am reading about the Minoans currently.

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I had read somewhere that some of the earliest neolithic villages were found in Anatolia/Turkey - not exactly a civilization, but interesting.

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If they were part of the neolithic, they might have left the same amount of clues as Minoans whose script we can't decipher.

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This was long before script was developed. Just organized agriculture, milling, etc.

An interesting narrative being penciled in, via genetics, is how agriculture moved west from the eastern mediterrannen into Western Europe, disrupting and gradually replacing hunter-gatherer culture & populations. Not by conquest, but by out-populating the older populations, since agriculture was so much more productive. It was a one-way transformation, a better human mouse-trap.

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I did not know that. Thanks :)

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Sumeria and Mesopotamia are what they taught everyone in school, but I can't be the only one who's wondering if they've found something older, in the vast amount of time that's elapsed since I went to school.

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They taught us that too during my school days too. Thanks for replying :) I guess there is not much left to discover, unless you count conmen like Graham Hancock who say a lot of let's call it unfounded stuff.

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Well that's the thing, there's been 50 more years of archeology going on since I went to school, and huge advances in the sciences throughout the world. People used to think that North America was the only place that had dinosaurs, but dinosaurs have been discovered on every continent (even Antarctica) and in just about every nation, by the scientists of those nations.

So for all I know, some brilliant scientist has discovered the remains of early proto-cities in Africa or China, because I haven't read up on that period of history at all.

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Yes, I didn't think of such possibilities. You might be proven right. I have little to say on the subject of archeology - hence this thread - because the book I was banking a lot on, called 'The Horse, the Wheel, and Language', proved to be boring to read (with a good start, though).

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So... you haven't read up on the archaeology of that period either?

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Erm, no, haha.

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Dinosaurs really are more interesting, right?

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Not really. Not to me that is. There is nothing substantial to be gained (IMO) from learning about Dinosaurs compared to knowledge about history and prehistory. I mean I'd rather memorise the names of various species of humans or the geological eras of Earth than freaking dinosaurs. But then I'm not American.

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I respectfully disagree, because what "interesting" is or is not, isa subjective judgement based on personal tastes.

But dinosaurs ARE interesting! And way cool! They were *supposed* to be the dominant life form on the planet, and might have evolved intelligence and civilization at some point, but well. A bit of bad luck with a comet and suddenly these humans are destroying all the forests.

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I know Dinosaurs are cool. But being a human of average to moderate intelligence, with a poor memory to boot(lol), I need to choose what I assimilate. E.g. I am steeling myself to learn Russian and Japanese, and it will take me the rest of my life to complete that endeavour. Ideally I would have loved to learn Middle and Early English, and the Nordic languages, and Ancient Greek and Latin. But I can't learn all of that! It will kill me if I try.

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Wow, I'm impressed! I'm reasonably intelligent, but am absolute crap at some things, like mathematics and... languages.

But it's not like I really studied dinosaurs, or the plantagenet kings or any other of the odd things floating around my brain. I do seriously study my field, but I've read a fair number of nonfiction books just for entertainment. I work in a high-stress job in a high-stress field, and reading a bit about dinosaurs is a nice break from dealing with the ills of humanity all day.

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You may be already familiar with much of this, but...

You would probably also enjoy reading about the mammal-like reptiles (synapsids) which dominated the paleozoic world. They preceded the dinosaurs, similar to them, were largely wiped out in the end-Permian extinction, but the remnents of them that survived (cynodont-like) went on ultimately in the triassic/jurassic to evolve into proper mammals (eutherians/metatherians/monotremes/multituberculates).

here's an (obviously) predatory gorgonopsid from the permian :

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fvignette.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fshipoffools%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fab%2FGrgonopsid.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130601141631&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=c640b8f403da7cf03c951bdd486b7816dccf7642f1fce03bd586f9e1cc6a14e5&ipo=images

A speculative reconstruction of the last common ancestor (LCA) of all mammals :

https://www.ucdavis.edu/sites/default/files/styles/sf_landscape_16x9/public/media/images/Morganucodon_resize_0.jpg?h=f3f85ad9&itok=rr4_JviD

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And crocodilians predated the dinosaurs, but I forget if the modern-day crocodiles are actually descended from them.

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Well, thanks, but what I write are just words :) I am not intelligent enough to work in a demanding job. I know that most articulate people here are better off, or have a more interesting life than me or people who live a boring life. If I mistakenly led you to believe that I think much of myself or want you to think the same of me, I apologise, LOL.

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Don't dismiss you own intelligence, even if other people been rotten enough to do so in the past! "Intelligence" is not a single number but an extremely complex hodgepodge of abilities, disabilities, talents, and whatever the opposite of talent is called. Some people are good at everything, some people are good at nothing, and the vast majority of humans are like you and me, good at some things and not at others. So, since you're good at something I'm not, and you don't say boneheadedly stupid things the way 4/5 of Moviechatterers do, I think you have to be "reasonably intelligent", as I said of myself.

Human intelligence really is a strange thing. I once met a world-class mathematician, and he said that even though his mathematical abilities were outstanding, his other skills including language skills were far below par. He said he read slowly and wrote so poorly he had a secretary to write for him, plus his social skills lived up to the stereotype. Would you call him "intelligent"?

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You are probably right :) Thanks for the kind words. I am just monitoring my mind to prevent me from falling into a bout of narcissism.

I also have the feeling that many members here post just to make fun of others. Totally understandable. But I post here because unlike reddit, there are no upvotes to channel the talks on this site.

I am also crazy about knowledge that is within my reach. So yeah, see you around.

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See you around too, and I'm very serious about IQ tests and other standard estimates of intelligence being worthless. They tend to rate pure logic and mathematics too highly; pure logic and mathematics are useless when confronting most real-life problems, Critical Thinking is far more valuable in real life, and useful in most professions, and I don't know if it's even included in "intelligence tests".

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I was taught about Egypt and it's influence on Greece which influenced Rome. Nobody mentioned Sumeria and Mesopotamia.

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Ur. Modern day Iraq.

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The Greeks invented ass banging.

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