after three episodes you sort of see some similar character development as that found in The Walking Dead show - by this I mean, the main characters do little learning from their own experiences and encounters.
On top of that, I wonder if creators purposely create characters that you just can't wait to be killed off and then keep them alive out of pure viewer satisfaction.
I am watching it also and enjoying it. I have never seen TWD.
shareI quit watching TWD after about the seventh season because of the lack of growth of the characters and their intelligence grew to be too much - for example, their lack of imagination of how to kill off the walking dead from further distances or even the lack of use of things like sharpened re-bar or high powered bb/pellet guns - hell, even a slingshot (yes, you have to pump some of them up, but there would be endless ammo and the killing would have been quiet).
Anyway, To The Lake has been a pleasantly good find (I did read on one website beforehand a warning of how some of the characters really lacked appeal)....
most of the characters are not likeable. except for the doctor.
shareIn TV I think it is still true that characters don't change. Otherwise they can't write the show because everyone would be perfect and do boring and predictable things. I think it is a problem to keep characters the same when they obviously should be learning new facts from their mistakes. I feel like it shows that the flaws they have picked to be part of the characters are not credible flaws, because even flawed people should be able to learn new facts and skills. I haven't really noticed this problem in To The Lake, myself, though. What were you thinking of, specifically? I felt the teenagers did some stupid things but they are teenagers so I expect them to do stupid things.
shareI do like this show. I'm on episode five. I love the scenery of the show and the old structures, too. And how they have created a cold chill to the show - it's like you can feel the cold.
Right now the most glaring thing is early on it is learned this is a highly contagious disease and these characters keep acting like they don't know that. Also, all of the overused tropes.....like looking away while driving on a snowy road and wrecking the car.
Those are all good points. Very true, it's like you can feel the cold. I love that.
Your point about their approach to contagion is really interesting. They seemed much more laid-back about contagion than are we in the real pandemic. They didn't seem to feel worried about being near to contagious people as long as they weren't touching (eg when Anna got sick, Sergey went right up to her to discuss whether she should drive alone. My husband and I were going, "Back off! Back off! Are you crazy?"). They weren't wiping down surfaces or anything like that. Even though the real-life pandemic is terrible, I must say we enjoyed criticising the pandemic management skills of the characters.
(As an aside, I would say, and this is a bit wierd, but the movie/show that, to me, best showed the uncertainty of a pandemic was The Happening. Remember how they didn't know what was going on and had to figure it out?)
It drives me completely nuts when movie/show characters look away for extended times while driving, either to talk to each other, check around the back seat for something, or things like that. Keep your eyes on the road people!!! 80% of on-screen characters should be dead, considering their irresponsible driving habits. Personally, I give the characters in To The Lake a pass because their situation is so stressful and they are mostly just ordinary people learning "on the fly." But I also understand that it is still annoying that they do that.
Have you finished it yet?
I won't post any spoilers, but there is another segment that really gets the chill in the bone. I was watching it and I don't know if makeup was used or what, but the inclusion of the cold is felt to the bone. I was almost hurting just watching it (chopping wood is a hint).
Also, there is another sequence that was filmed so well to capture the environment of the sequence. It was like, "why do so many other filmmakers not film scenes this way."
While there are irritants to this show, there are also many things that are done so well.
Yes I have. Loved it. So many good scenes.
shareHave you seen Wisting?
The reason I mention it is because it is based in Norway and during the winter and I'm not really sure why, but the winter scenes filmed in Wisting are an interesting contrast to the winter scenes filmed in To The Lake.
For some reason, I'm not entirely certain why, but the chill in the filming of Wisting is not as predominant as that of To The Lake (I think part of it might be because there has been more filming with direct sunlight in Wisting).
Is it on Netflix? If so, I will check it out. Yes I wonder why the feeling of cold is so stark in To The Lake. It's very interesting because most shows don't have that. I also recently watched Deadwind, which is also filmed during mostly winter and it did not feel as cold.
shareNo, it's not on Netflix, but Amazon Prime is offering a 30 day free trial for AMC+, which includes IFC and Sundance. There are a ton of shows on there.
As we've discussed, storytellers really should make note of how they filmed To The Lake in how they have captured the cold.
I've watched Deadwind, mainly enjoyed it, but had some issues with it as it went on.
A series called Trapped also capture the cold well.
I also had some issues with Deadwind. When the male detective got into the helicopter my husband and I both started laughing (I'm trying to phrase this so I don't spoil it for others). I'm not sure that was the creators' intention. Is there a genre known as Campy Nordic Noir? We decided that it is an enjoyable show as long as you accept it for what it is. It's not so much a detective show, but is more about the characters, and the detective show is the environment in which the characters interact. I liked that we kept the two main characters but also got new characters each season.
Sorry, I am off topic now.
When it comes to so many of these shows, I almost think there is either something like a character/plot point flow chart to be checked off or that so many of these creators are oblivious to what so many others do and think their use of an overused plot point has never been done before.
For example, I am so tired of the use of a highly intelligent angst-filled teen child of a character to rebel and get pulled into the storyline because he or she does something incredibly stupid or starts interacting with the villain for some reason or another.
Or, when the story is driven forward by characters that simply do not communicate with a significant other, partner, or someone else (you know when the viewer screams at the screen "just tell him/her!").
And what irked me in Deadwin was the completely overused "lone wolf" police officer trope where the person goes into dire circumstances alone.
Kind of like how back in the day of horror film where any fleeing character in the woods runs right into a tree branch or trips over a root.
It's funny you should say this because I've been reading about this very thing, and you are right, these things don't happen by accident in every show, they are intentional. Writers purposefully do not allow characters to solve their relationship problems by clear interpersonal communication. That would be boring.
But, the failure to communicate can't just be arbitrary; instead, the characters must have personal flaws that prevent them from spitting out the truth, so that their failure to communicate is organic to the character. That allows the writer to dole out the clues to the viewer as to why this particular character keeps messing up their life.
But, yeah, since most of us are normal people who would just talk to our partner about disagreements and solve them amicably, I think it can be very hard to relate to tv characters. So I think one measure of the skill of a tv writer is inventing and then writing characters who have sufficient internal flaws to generate repeated conflict (and thus interesting shows), but also making them seem like their behaviors come from a real person instead of just being constructed artificially so that the show can have an hour-long plot.
I think in Deadwind, her foolhardy behavior is part of her character. I think her behavior is very much driven by her emotions. She's intuitive, and she seems to think that makes her a good detective, but I think the reactions from people around her suggest that she is always on the edge of disaster. She's not a great mother. She's morally ambiguous.
I actually like her as a character because I appreciate when a female main character is allowed to be so flawed. I get tired of shows being afraid of showing a woman as imperfect. Or where their only imperfection is that they are so much smarter and more competent than other people that no one understands them. So I like her as a character.
For me, where the show is flawed is in its creation of a believable story world. A detective who behaved as she does would not only get fired in the real world, but also their cases would never win in court because their evidence chain is filled with problems. But the show is so clearly focused on who she is as a character that I guess I am able to enjoy it nevertheless.
I agree with you about teenagers. I think teenagers on tv are almost never done well. They are either much wiser or much more idiotic than real teenagers. The actors who play them are rarely mature enough to portray them with any subtlety (and, if they do, the tween and teenage audiences who want to watch shows about teenagers don't have the maturity to appreciate it and those shows tend to get canceled real fast).
I found the teenagers in To The Lake very grating but I was so gripped by the plot that I was willing to go with it. The way they did the music also suggested to me that the creators understood that their adult audience would find the teens annoying. The music whenever the two teens were together had undertones of "Here are two idiotic teens who are about to do idiotic teen things that will annoy their adults. I know, right!?!?!" Often during the teenagers' scenes my husband and I were laughing, and we felt as if we were intended to be laughing.
We also felt like the teens had to be in the show because their presence was why the adults were willing to put up with each other. If none of these people had kids to worry about, I think they would have been much more likely to just go their separate ways. As a parent, one of the things I found interesting about To The Lake was the constant calculus by each parent as to the life of their own child vs the other kids in the group. Even their romantic relationships were only partly about romance/their own future, and the other side of those romances was about acquiring help from another adult to look after their kid.
Sorry for the novel.
shareOh, no apologies needed at all - it's a breath of fresh air here when you come across another user that is thoughtful, courteous, and wonderfully expressive in replies (briefly I have looked over the Elliot/Ellen Page threads and want to scream over the idiotic and immature and compassionless postings there and that is what I get so fed up with here - the immature posters that get to hide behind an anonymous avatar which lets them feel like they are free to post whatever crap they want).
As for Deadwind, I just saw that lead actress in another Nordic series called Arctic Circle that wasn't too bad...
Thanks, I will have to check that one out. Curious to see if I will like her in another series as much as this one.
shareit is on netflix
shareNot a bad show..
UMM YES IT IS. It is just so contrived and shitty. The show clearly doesn't have the budget to do the story they want to do and yes it originally in Russia so maybe a lot is lostin translation.
But holy shit this show is dogshit.
Really? Why participate in a thread if you are going to post crap like this? Just too many juvenile like members here...
share"Why participate in a thread"
Because it is a message board dedicated to discussing TV shows and movies. The idea is you discuss things you like and things you dislike. You discuss the terrible aspects of a show and positive aspects of the show.
Then how about doing it in a mature and thoughtful way (and it's obvious you can do that as shown with your second reply)......
shareStill better than the majority of us shows.
Btw, are you using subtitles?
Finished the season but it was a chore. The production values are good but the lead, Kirill Käro, is muted emotionally and has the look of a punch drunk boxer. Much of the same cast was in Better Than Us, a Russian version of Humans, and it has the same monotonous tone. The season finale had much-needed drama.
shareIt's a good show, not just not bad.
Seems like you are reading into it that it is similar to The Walking Dead. Or maybe you are just going off the first three episodes ... so there is not much chance for them to "learn". There was not one person who was demanding to lead the group, or a fight over leadership as in TWD with Rick.
I actually liked all the characters in the group, or understood their motives that were clear and understandable. I appreciate good writing like that, and not just twists and turns from manipulating characters and making them do things that go against their character.
I am six episodes in. I really like the show and the overall tone of the characters. I could do without the teenage girl having haunting memories of the "soldier" she dealt with, but its not a deal breaker.
As far as "learning from their own experiences and encounters" I would disagree. They really haven't had much experience and it would appear they basically had to leave Moscow right at the beginning with very little information about the outbreak. And they do seem to keep secrets from each other, for example, what really happened in that infected house in episode 4. Outside that one scene, secrets do kind of make sense as each family unit seems to have their own goals.
I don't find the characters annoying, but I do feel the male "lead" or the father of the young boy if you will, is kind of dull and uninteresting which makes it hard to believe a therapist would risk/ruin her career to have an affair with him.