MovieChat Forums > Hereditary (2018) Discussion > So What Was Ellen’s End? SPOILERS!

So What Was Ellen’s End? SPOILERS!

posted 6 years ago by Jeepster (1033)
10 replies | jump to latest

What I mean by “her end” is what was in it for her? This is the grandmother I’m talking about. Annie’s mom & Peter & Charlie’s Grandma. The one who supposedly started this whole mess.

Annie read a note that was addressed to her after Ellen’s death apologizing for several things & trying to console her that “the rewards pale in comparison to the sacrifice”

But at the end she wound up a blackened, headless corpse, even if she was brought back to life (a point I’m still debating). So again what was her big “reward?”

I’m sure many of you have wondered about that too. Serves her right I say. What say you all?

[–] danton90 (8) 6 years ago

I don't think she was exactly expected a "reward". I think her devotion to Paimon and her quest to bring him back was her reward. She believed that Charlie would be the reincarnation of Paimon and that Charlie needed a male's (her brother's) body to be perfect. So what she pretty much got out of it was seeing this plan through, to get Charlie's spirit into Peter's body. Was Charlie Paimon? I don't think so at all. From the look on Charlie/Peter's face at the end of the movie, she seemed just as perplexed about what was going on as the audience. But that's a theory for another day.

[–] Jeepster (1033) 6 years ago

I’m glad you brought that up danton90, because that’s the same question I had.
Was Charlie always Paimon? As they (the cult) meant to put him in her body at first or was she Charlie (just a child)? Or was she Charlie/Paimon? How did they f*@k that up in the first place with the “instructions” being quite clear?

It doesn't make sense that the cult went back to the drawing board as it were & needed to transfer Charlie into Peter’s body along with Paimon. If Paimon had to be both Charlie & himself then how come it was satisfactory for him to be only himself in Peter?

Meaning by the way it seemed to turn out, it seemed they only needed Peter’s body as a vessel & that was it. Not Peter & Paimon or Charlie & Paimon or Peter, Charlie & Paimon. Peter who didn’t mean to die but escape (That’s what I thought at least), wound up getting killed, so I like to think his soul was free, that the cult didn’t get that OR Charlie’s.

Blecchh!! It seems so convoluted I get confused just thinking of it. Maybe you see it more clearly than I.

[–] danton90 (8) 6 years ago

In the cult doctrine that they went by, the sex of the body of which Paimon died is the sex that he had to return in. It said something about dying a male has to come back in a male, something like that. I have no clue why Ellen thought that Charlie was Paimon reincarnated, but since her birth, she knew she needed to get her into a male's body, hence Charlie's line that "Grandma wanted me to be a boy."

At one glance, it'd be easy to write off the cultists as nutjobs, but there was clearly occult and otherworldly things going on throughout the movie, so whether they were right or wrong, something was happening. I'm actually not sure Paimon's spirit ever even surfaces in the movie. I think the evil spirit doing the wrong doings in the movie was that of Ellen's actually. Ellen's spirit screwing with Annie, "stalking" Charlie, influencing her death so that her spirit would be free to get into Peter's vessel. Then eventually taking over Annie's body and killing her.

[–] FilmBuff (6718) 6 years ago

So I only just watched this, and I may change my mind after a second viewing, but... my takeaway was that when Annie said that she'd never let her mother near Peter, but relented and let her interact with, and even nurse, Charlie, what we were being told, without yet knowing it, was that her mother had been inadvertently thwarted in her attempt to manifest Paimon in Peter, and instead did so in Charlie. It's suggested that something must be done in infancy to invite the demon into the child that she wasn't able to do in Peter's case, which is why Charlie was her favorite.

As to whether Peter was Paimon at the end, or simply Charlie, I think the former is the case. I noticed that the statue of Paimon in the treehouse showed his arm and hand bent and twisted in a pose identical to that which Peter made before injuring himself in class, which leads me to believe that they were able to manifest the demon in his body.

[–] Jimsalabim (7) 6 years ago

Why would Joan refer to Charly when she's speaking to Peter. Because Charly = Paimon, there is no other reason than that i think. Paimon was raised as a female child called charly, and now is in a male version which he prefers. What i don't understand is why Peter (now Paimon) acts confused when entering the treehouse sacrificial room. I would expect a more sinister and evil look from him as in, now i'm ready to utilize my powers and destroy/conquer this world.

[–] FilmBuff (6718) 6 years ago

I definitely think Peter died when he jumped from the window, at which point the coven, or whatever one calls such a gathering, was able to move Charly's spirit into Peter's body. The question then becomes-- how much of that spirit is Charly, and how much is Paimon?

Charly never seemed to be much of a power-utilizing world conquerer, so perhaps the influence of Paimon is not as overt as that? Or perhaps its something that overlaps the human soul.

I took the confusion to be that the last thing she remembered was dying, and now she's alive, but in an unfamiliar body, being worshipped by strangers. Plus, there are some dead family members' bodies in the room.

[–] Jeepster (1033) 6 years ago

Something was off about Charlie, no doubt, but I think she was mostly a child, with maybe some Paimon influences but mainly a child. When Annie summons her during the seance & she possesses her for just a few seconds, she screams "Mommy you're scaring me!" That's a child talking not a demonic entity. So that's one of the main questions of this film, what exactly did you think Charlie really was?

[–] Jimsalabim (7) 6 years ago

i think the girl's soul was mixed with the paimon soul.. and they both got released when she was killed... she was free again, and therefore we can hear her real version as in a scared little girl, who was trapped with this paimon soul

[–] mel2000 (244) 6 years ago

So again what was her big “reward?"

There was none. Chalk it up to poor writing. IIRC, in Rosemary's Baby the coven had the reward of immortality with their heads intact.

[–] LetThemEatCake (2717) 6 years ago

I've always wondered about that, it seems that the satanists always end up in a fucked up way. And she was not brought back to life, her corpse was just propped like that.