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Surprised they did a second season after so much criticism over leaving out facts in S1


I really enjoyed Season 1 and found it interesting, but I was dismayed when I learned how the filmmakers selectively chose to mislead the audience by leaving out certain information that would point toward Avery's guilt.

For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, this article does a good job of briefly summarizing it:

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/06/making-a-murderer-subject-steven-avery-is-guilty-as-hell/

I know a lot of other people were unhappy about this as well, so I'm surprised Netflix went ahead with an second season after the backlash.

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And season 2 is even dirtier, phonier, and more slanted. The documentary equivalent of yellow journalism and clickbait. They've got a sociopath attorney who thinks Avery is going to turn her into the next Cochrane. This whole thing is propaganda and it's dangerous propaganda that is trying to tear down the justice system and replace it with mob rule. They have people brigading Kratz trying to destroy his career. The film makers and Netflix should be ashamed of themselves. Frankly, the people being targeted by this series need to sue them.

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[deleted]

In Season 2, they do show a few clips of people mentioning the evidence they left out. They don't exactly go into full detail, but I guess they're showing what they did wrong in Season 1.

Season 2 is still pretty bias but it does show how corrupt those cops were/are and it certainly shows that, whether he is guilty or not, evidence was definitely planted/tampered with - without a doubt.

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Where, in which episode, was mention of the evidence they left out in S1? It must have been very brief, because I missed that entirely.

My impression of this season was more or less it was more of the same as S1, with a couple of interesting points made. What has convinced you that evidence was unquestionably planted or tampered with, without any doubt? I will say the fact that Teresa did not file with her insurance any problem with the turn signal light indicates the damage happened after her murder.

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It wasn't anyone taking part in the documentary that mentioned the evidence left out in season 1, it was brief clips of news anchors mentioning what they left out in season 1. It was just a few clips during their montage of "bias documentary" news clips. I'm pretty sure its in the first episode.

What convinced me that evidence was planted/tampered with:

-Averys blood found in multiple places around the car but no fingerprints or other samples of DNA are found. You can't say he was smart enough to clean all his fingerprints away but leave the very visible blood, surely?
-The key magically appearing in the trailer with only Stevens DNA on it? Not Theresa's of course, who the key belonged to...
-Bones found in the barrel the day after nothing was found in that same barrel...
-Where she was supposedly cremated (beside Averys property), an expert claims it would have been impossible to cremate her due to the pit and lack of evidence of a source of fuel for the fire. Yet bones were found there, somehow.
-The high levels of Averys DNA found on the hood latch, yet when Zellner tested it multiple times, the level of DNA was nowhere near as high as it was when it was originally tested.
-Teresa's car was spotted on the roadside two days before it was found on Averys property.

Her ex-boyfriend claiming the light was broken before her murder and also him being in possession of her planner really makes me question why he wasn't a prime suspect. I don't think much points towards him doing it but I feel like he definitely knows something.

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Thanks. I just watched the first episode again. They only mention one piece of evidence that was left out, but not why it was left out. I wanted to see that addressed, as well as why they left out a lot of other things and tried to paint Avery as some kind of kindly teddy bear who'd been wronged. He had been wronged, without a question, in the first trial and following imprisonment, but there was more to his story than that, and they left it all out.

Did you do more than watch the first season? Did you do any research on this?

I'll comment on your points one by one.

"Averys blood found in multiple places around the car but no fingerprints or other samples of DNA are found. You can't say he was smart enough to clean all his fingerprints away but leave the very visible blood, surely?"

There was non-blood DNA supposedly found on the hood latch, so it wasn't only blood, but what other kind of DNA would you expect there to be? It takes someone touching a specific type of surface with their fingertips to leave fingerprints, so not finding them isn't that surprising.

"The key magically appearing in the trailer with only Stevens DNA on it? Not Theresa's of course, who the key belonged to..."

As I replied to someone else, it was her spare key. I don't know about you, but I rarely even touch my spare key, so there's probably none of my DNA on it either. I am, though, suspicious of how the key was found. Could it have happened the way LE said it did? Yes, but it's clumsy.

"Bones found in the barrel the day after nothing was found in that same barrel..."

This issue I'm going to have to watch the episode that covers it again, so can't comment yet, and don't remember it well enough from S1.

"Where she was supposedly cremated (beside Averys property), an expert claims it would have been impossible to cremate her due to the pit and lack of evidence of a source of fuel for the fire. Yet bones were found there, somehow."

(run out of characters)

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Ditto this (cremation site), except I do remember in addition to the tires, there was fire accelerant found. I believe gasoline.

"The high levels of Averys DNA found on the hood latch, yet when Zellner tested it multiple times, the level of DNA was nowhere near as high as it was when it was originally tested. "

Zellner's experiments didn't wash with me. She had him simply hold a key for 12 minutes? Really? That proves nothing. It's stuff like this that spoils her credibility for me.

"Teresa's car was spotted on the roadside two days before it was found on Averys property. "

There was one witness who says that and, more concerning, he says the officer he told about it was Colbern.

"Her ex-boyfriend claiming the light was broken before her murder and also him being in possession of her planner really makes me question why he wasn't a prime suspect."

The fact that he said she'd filed an insurance claim about it, yet now it's been proven she didn't, plus his having that page of Teresa's day planner, when she wrote in it while she was on the road that day, yes, these things bother me. LE may not have known she'd written that entry about her friend while she was on the road. I don't know.

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I've been rewatching a few episodes and have to correct myself on the part about Ryan H. While Zellner *says* that's what he said, if you read the document they show onscreen, that isn't what he said.

He said he'd checked with friends and family, and *they* said the damage to the light was done prior to the murder, and she'd filed an insurance claim on it.

So where did that come from? Did he check with her friends and family, and is that what they told him? Or did he make that up? It's anything but clear, and I dislike all of this misleading Zellner and the "documentary" are doing.

All we do know is she did not file an insurance claim on it, despite it being significant damage.

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Ah, I never noticed that originally!

Personally, I don't think that the filmmakers intended to show both sides and I don't believe they ever advertised it that way. I truly think they believe he is innocent and that's their main reason for making it. The title is "Making a Murderer" after all...

It's definitely fair to say that it's one-sided but I think if people want to delve deeper into the case and find out everything there is to know, they should definitely just research it all.

I've had mixed opinions on whether he did it or not, but now I do believe he is innocent. However, I don't think he'll ever be released from Prison and I don't think the case will ever truly be solved (even if he did do it, i don't think we'll ever know how it happened)

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http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/06/making-a-murderer-subject-steven-avery-is-guilty-as-hell/

That article is ridiculous. Season 2 answers most of the points against Avery, so you should watch it.

-Of course the 22LR bullet in the garage came from Avery's gun, he shot all over the property. There was no bone fragment on the bullet while it supposedly entered and exited Teresa's head (which was already far fetched with 22LR caliber).

- There's no proof at all that Teresa was ever inside Avery's house. Let alone chained or cuffed.

- The key was planted and Teresa's DNA wasn't even found on it, which is rather strange.

- He had Teresa's phone number because he sometimes had her take photos of cars outside of her auto-trader job. He gave his sister's name (which is not a false name) because it was her car Teresa came to take photos of.

- There were obvious blood drops inside the car, but absolutely no fingerprints or hair from Avery? How the hell do you explain that? How could anyone be stupid enough to leave blood behind, but smart enough to perfectly wipe all fingerprints? Like for the key, the DNA the prosecution claim came from sweat could be from saliva, of which the police had samples.

- Those are just rumors. Not facts.

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Exactly. And can someone tell me how in the blazes we're supposed to believe that they supposedly slit Halbach's throat in that bedroom while she was supposedly handcuffed to the bed.

A) No blood at all found in that bedroom via arterial spray.
B) No marks on the bedframe as a result of handcuffs being attached.

Next addressing the bullet fragment found in the garage.

A) No blood found on the bullet.
B) No obvious signs of blood not even in the crack in the pavement, no drips...nothing.
C) The dust on the car hood and all the equipment was undisturbed showing no clean up.
D) If Halbach was shot in the head in that garage, there is no brain matter or blood found even in minute traces in that garage.

I would suspect they luminoled that trailer and if arterial spray due to slitting her throat, then that bedroom should have lit up like a Christmas tree. Yet no blood found.

You said it right, how is there no DNA from Halbach at all on that key? Where's the lanyard where the key came from? Why was that key not found until the eighth search? Why no fingerprints from Avery, Dassey, or Halbach found in that RAV4?

I agreed with Zellner about both Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych. Look at that hard drive search and the various sites Bobby Dassey searched for. Brendan wouldn't know to search for that stuff.

And lastly why isn't the Halbach family out there more? Sharon Tate's family has been very vocal about the Manson family. Doris Tate, Patti Tate, Debra Tate, all of them have been out there speaking on Manson and his family and what they did. Where is the Halbach family? Why aren't they speaking out and trying to get the word out there about their daughter/sister?

Clearly this is about silencing Avery and Dassey. There was no reason for the En Banc hearing to end in the 3/4 decision because what was done to Brendan was disgraceful. That one of those judges said what she did about watching the video of Fassbender and Weigert interrogating a special needs kid.....

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"And can someone tell me how in the blazes we're supposed to believe that they supposedly slit Halbach's throat in that bedroom while she was supposedly handcuffed to the bed.

A) No blood at all found in that bedroom via arterial spray.
B) No marks on the bedframe as a result of handcuffs being attached."

Brendan obviously made all of that up in an effort to appease the LE who were interrogating him. He also said her hair was cut off and put on the dresser, when there was no sign that anything whatsoever occurred in the bedroom, let alone anything he supposedly confessed to. We agree, for a change.

As far as the lanyard with her spare key, how often do you handle your spare key, and how much DNA of yours on it do you suppose there is? I do wonder where she kept it. Did she keep it in her glove box. That's where I keep mine, just in case I lose my main key. Is that where she kept hers? Don't know. If that isn't where she kept it, and instead kept it at home, then yes, that's a serious problem, but we don't know the answer to that question.

Zeller said the contents of the hard drive belonged to Bobby Dassey, but in reality it was a shared computer by all the Dassey family -- something she happily omitted. How do you, or does anyone else, know who searched for what was found on that drive?

What reason would the Halbach family have to be "out there more" if they already believe her murderer has already been tried, convicted, and sentenced? Sharon Tate's family has only been outspoken when Manson or his "family" has been up for parole. Neither Dassey nor Avery have been up for parole.

I agree with you that Brendan's interrogation was disgraceful.

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"Zeller said the contents of the hard drive belonged to Bobby Dassey, but in reality it was a shared computer by all the Dassey family -- something she happily omitted. How do you, or does anyone else, know who searched for what was found on that drive?"

It seems to me you didn't watch the second series at all. Katz sad and had written in a report that it was "Brendan's computer" whereas it was a family computer, and that's what Kathleen pointed out. She was also smart enough to give a credible theory why he did that. It was in order to further hide the fact that the horrible staff (pictures of torture and mutilations of women, who often even resemble Theresa) found on Bobby's computer was not reported to the defence nor jury. It is a travesty that that guy was not even a suspect.
There is a detailed report about what was found on Bobby's computer signed by one of the worst cops, I think one of the Brendan's interogators. It's all shown in one of the last episodes.

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"Season 2 answers most of the points against Avery, so you should watch it."

Not for me it doesn't.

"Of course the 22LR bullet in the garage came from Avery's gun, he shot all over the property. There was no bone fragment on the bullet while it supposedly entered and exited Teresa's head (which was already far fetched with 22LR caliber)."

This I agree with. I'm not convinced about what happened in the garage, let alone her being shot in the head and the bullet fragment they found having entered her at all. But why was there bleach in the garage and on Brendan's clothing after her murder?

"There's no proof at all that Teresa was ever inside Avery's house. Let alone chained or cuffed. "

Agree. I doubt she was in his house, and certainly nothing like what the prosecution's narrative was, based on Brendan's "fantasy" story. That simply didn't happen.

"The key was planted and Teresa's DNA wasn't even found on it, which is rather strange."

You don't know it was planted. As I've posted several times, this was her spare key, so it's not strange her DNA wasn't found on it.

"He had Teresa's phone number because he sometimes had her take photos of cars outside of her auto-trader job. He gave his sister's name (which is not a false name) because it was her car Teresa came to take photos of."

Why did he twice call her from his phone, disguising his number? He wanted her to call him back, but she couldn't with no # to call. If he's innocent, there was no reason for him to do that.

"There were obvious blood drops inside the car, but absolutely no fingerprints or hair from Avery? How the hell do you explain that?"

Answered this in another post in this thread.

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They didn't see the key for days until the house was visited by the 2 Manitowoc cops who were not supposed to be there. Then the key magically appeared on the floor. Come on.

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I gather you're not very familiar with what happened.

11/4 SA gave LE permission to search his trailer. This is before the RAV4 was found, or anything was found on the property. LE were focussed on looking for Teresa or possibly her body; it wasn't a thorough search for evidence.

11/5 The RAV was found.

11/6 Several homes on the compound were searched. The focus was not on SA at this point.

11/7 Searches in the homes on the property continued.

11/8 Late in the day the key was discovered in SA's trailer.

How is this magically appearing?

I will give you that, as far as I know, those two MC LE officers shouldn't have been there, although there's some question about that.

No comment on the rest of my post?

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And not any two cops, but the very ones who were to be deposed because of his first arrest. Colborn is the worst. He's the one who didn't report a call from a neighbouring precinct that they might have an innocent man in prison.

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I'm surprised as well, and was also very dismayed when I looked into this more closely and discovered just how biased this supposed documentary was. IMO the article you linked to does a fairly good job of outlining exactly how and why it was so biased.

Until you posted this, I wasn't aware there was a S2, but have since watched most of it. Have you?

My first impression was it was more of the same, so why waste my time? But I did end up by watching most of it.

IMO Brendan was without question given a raw deal, and was coerced and manipulated by LE. To me it was so obvious he was trying to please the detectives interrogating him, he would and did say anything he thought they wanted him to say, regardless of how nonsensical it was. It was painful to watch. Did he actually have anything to do with or (more likely) know about Teresa's murder after the fact, as in knowing something about the disposal of her body? I don't know.

It was ludicrous that Zellner said she'd had a swab taken of a completely different vehicle of the same vintage as Teresa's hood latch, and it had grey streaks on, it probably from grease/lubricant, whereas the one from Teresa's didn't. 😂 As though *that* proved anything! Makes her credibility iffy at best.

And yet, I did find the fact that Ryan, Teresa's ex, was in possession of her daily planner, when he nor anyone else should have been, and that appears to have been proven, questionable at best. What did you think of that part, if you saw it?

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So far I have only watched the first episode of S2. It was . . . fairly interesting, I guess.

I suppose the most interesting angle is that Avery has landed this high-profile attorney with a history of reversing convictions, but on the other hand just based on that one episode it seems like the only angle this season has.

Not sure what I think of the attorney. I can say that, while I was watching her experiments in recreating the scene of the murder, her attempts seemed somewhat dubious. I'm just not sure how much insight could really be gained with that sort of thing.

I will agree that Brendan's confession is highly problematic. Everyone has said that and it's pretty obvious that what we see on that confession tape should be illegal. You have a minor, with a low IQ, being interrogated by himself without an attorney or even a parent in the room, and the detectives are obviously trying to coerce him by asking leading questions. Yeah, that is all fucked up.

I intend to continue on with the season, at least for now. I guess we'll see if I get all the way through it.

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Keep watching. You'll have to endure a lot of footage of poor Steven and his family, but there are a few interesting points made in later episodes.

I agree her experiments are iffy. There are more of them later on.

Completely agree about Brendan. How anyone could watch those tapes and not realise something was deeply wrong is beyond me.

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