MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Would Luke have been written this way if...

Would Luke have been written this way if Hamill was a big star?

posted 6 years ago by Arghhhh (804)
16 replies | jump to latest

My guess is: no.

It seems that, for Disney, the cast of the originals were liabilities rather than assets and their treatment seems directly proportional to their current career status.

Harrison Ford was still a big name so he had his long term wish to be killed off granted and gets to have one last hurrah as the big star.

Carrie Fisher is washed up but belongs to a protected class so she gets wheeled out now and then for some exposition and not much else.

And poor old Hamill? What to do with him? Luke was the centre of the original story but Hamill's career hasn't set the world on fire and by the time of TFA Hamill's best roles were voice acting, (plus he was obese). So they decide to sideline him, then reduce his character from a hero to a hobo and I think this is mainly due to their contempt for him as an actor/star. Hamill seems to have at least called Disney's bluff by being awesome (everybody seems to love his performance even those who hate the movie) but we can only dream of the kind of films we could have had if the writers had treated the original characters with an ounce of respect.

[–] SusieQ (111) 6 years ago

How would you have ended Luke’s story?

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

#1 not an ending but don't have him think about killing Ren. totally contradicts the original trilogy. or if you insist he still has to, have the explanation that Likes training area was actually built on an old Sith temple and it tempted him to the dark (as a grey Jedi he went both ways in some aspects)

#2 how to end it? its obvious, have him lift his fighter out of the water, fly and confront Ren, and go down obi wan style coming back stronger...

was that really hard for you to workout?

[–] SusieQ (111) 6 years ago

Lol why so defensive? Can’t you just have a conversation without being a dick about it?

[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 6 years ago

#2 how to end it? its obvious, have him lift his fighter out of the water, fly and confront Ren, and go down obi wan style coming back stronger...

This would have been a great idea!

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

I don't know - if anything his actual ending was well done, he just needed a better story to have been told before it.

[–] SusieQ (111) 6 years ago

Ahh, someone who can have a conversation without being defensive. A thousand thank yous.

And I’d probably agree with you. His ending as bring hope to the galaxy once again was quite fitting for the character. Maybe it could have been handled a little differently, but still fitting. The build up, I can say that whatever JJ had in mind rian symbolical threw away in the first moment of Reyes meeting with Luke. Of course why else would Luke have exiled himself far away from everyone and everything? It was already established that he failed in training new Jedi, so there wasn’t much for rian to do with that. So I can understand why he went with his over all theme of heroes failing for the film.

W grew up with Luke, and it sucks to see our heroes especially childhood ones come crashing down to earth. But I think that was the point. Luke had been built up in the Star Wars universe. He was legend, the last Jedi that brought peace to galaxy and killed the evil empire. The last Jedi shows a glimpse of what that burden might be like and the toll it takes. Is that what people wanted to see? Probably not. But I would argue that Luke’s story is over. He did what he was supposed to do. These new films aren’t about Luke, han or leia. Theyre background to this new trilogy in much the same way that obiwan was to the OT.

We find Luke as a tired old man. The burden of myth and not living up to that myth taking its toll on him. And in the end he rediscovers his faith in himself and others and uses the last drop of life he has to bring fresh hope to the galaxy when it was needed most. I understand it and I kinda like it, just wish it could have been done better.

There’s also the point of Carrie fisher passing away. It would have made sense to leave the character dead at the start of the film, and leave Luke alive at the end for the last movie. In saying that I am expecting a time jump in the next movie. So leia will die off screen, meaning not that much of a problem for JJ

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

No need to thank me - but I appreciate your reply.

I think the thing that is most disappointing for me is that the Star Wars sequels do not feel like stories - they feel like the end result of board room discussions. It seems to have gone something like this:

"So we need 3 sequels and we can't have the universe with the good guys in charge as that would be boring as hell so we need the empire to rise up"
"Yes but how are we going to show the New republic falling? That sounds a bit like the prequels and everybody hates those."
"Well we can just put a bit in the opening crawl and then never mention it again."
"Ok well what story shall we tell?"
"Well the original story was very popular so let's just tell that"
"What about the original cast?"
"Harrison Ford wants to die so we can push him into the 'Obi wan' part, but Hamill is a problem - he hasn't had a hit in decades, we can't base a movie around him."
"Lets just make him the Macguffin, the new heroes need to find him. Lets us throw his name around a lot but he doesn't even need to be in the film."
"Perfect!"

Then as you say above - JJ has already written RJ into a corner with Luke... what choice does he have? If he comes back and destroys the New Order then what is the point of Rey? And Rey has already beaten Ren so there's no dramatic impetus required to have her go through training.

It's all just a big mess I'm afraid.

[–] Threadkiller (2965) 6 years ago

Carrie Fisher is washed up but belongs to a protected class so she gets wheeled out now and then for some exposition and not much else.

I wanted to be mad at this quote but I shamefully admit I had a guilt riddled chuckle. RIP MS Fisher

[–] TaRaNRoD (1579) 6 years ago

To be honest, I don't find that star power so influential in the new trilogy.

We had Benicio Del Toro in a supporting role, but apart from him, we don't have many major stars. If anything, Ford, Hamill and Fisher are the biggest stars around.

[–] TristanReloaded (449) 6 years ago

It really helps to think that those were not the real OT characters: They were Jake Skywalker, Hans Olo and Carrie Poppins.

But one can safely say that M Hamill and his character were treated unfavorably in Force Awakens. I mean Hamill was reduced to a silent cameo because they thought that Luke - when he originally reappeared - stole the spotlight from the Rey character. And Luke - the selfless, courageous OT hero - failed the Jedi by having the SAME DAMN THING happen again (angry Skywalker seduced by dark side lord kills Jedi order). And what does Luke do - does he redeem his fallen apprentices and destroy evil Snoke? No, he disappears and "in the meantime" lets the Empire rise again killing billions, and pouts on a unfindable island that is somehow findable with a map (who needs coordinates!). That's all TFA.

What's more, I do not think Han Solo was treated any better. I mean the guy who in the end always saved his friends asses now runs away from his family, and does not care for his son's destiny at all? And what does he do, go to an island to pout? No worse, he becomes a lowly smuggler-criminal again, in adult-diapers age. And that with one of the most recognizable name and face in the galaxy (not to forget about the trademark Wookie companion). Ideal for smuggling really... And dont't get me started on the idiotic plan they had to bring Kylo boy back - did they even have one? Just show up during the Starkiller attack and say: Hey Benny come home , all is forgiven, even the millions of murders, no one in the Republic will hold you liable for it, I guess.

No, Han died like a bitch, and he deserved it, including having no funeral but only the infamous Leia-hugged-first event. Luke's death was silly, but graceful including the mourning. Just sad what happened to Carrie Poppins, hope she gets a proper funeral at least.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

Yep - agree with all of this. And in some ways Han was treated far worse - at least Luke goes through some kind of development, not a laughable and unrealistic regression to how he was 40 years ago.

Jesus Christ these movies... they're just awful. No other word for it.

[–] Threadkiller (2965) 6 years ago

Thank you for highlighting all of the character undermining plot contrivances that happened in TFA which too many people are overlooking as if the narrative is that TLJ is where things went awry. The table was already well set by Jar Jar Abrams. Johnson was tasked with turning shit into gold and failed miserably.

[–] TristanReloaded (449) 6 years ago

yeah, some say Last Jedi reaped what Force Awakens sowed. Or clad in more uncivilized terms, Ryan Johnson shat out the crap JJ produced. And hardly anyone believes anymore that it was gold what came out there.

It's only natural, yet unfortunate.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

FOR.THE.LAST.TIME. Harrison Ford did not want Han to be 'killed off' because he didn't want to play the part.

He stated that it would make sense for his character to 'die' doing something selfless for the Rebellion as he thought that would have made sense for Solo's character arc. You know, from selfish smuggler to fighting for something greater than himself.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

DID.I.SAY.THAT.HE.DIDN'T.WANT.TO.PLAY.THE.PART?

NO?

SO.WHY.TYPE.THINGS.IN.CAPITALS.LIKE.A.DICK?

The point is he got what he wanted because he has 'star power' while Hamill - who is obviously not happy with what happened to Luke - got treated like shit. Comprende?

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

YES.YOU.DID.100%.MEAN.WHAT.I.WROTE.

You even wrote that it was his 'wish' - it wasn't at all, he is on record as thinking it would make sense, that is ALL YOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK ok ok ... enough with the caps, my bad.

Your point is valid, I agree.