6.7 IMDB score? - Black Panther (2018) Discussion

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

No reliable reviews until after the movie comes out.

Standard stuff these days sadly.

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I understand that from user reviews and certain entities, but that's why I put Rotten Tomatoes into the mix. They have the reviews on there and they come off as boilerplate.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

For the kids at home: rottentomatoes.com/m/black_panther_2018/

Only 3 rotten reviews and the others are HIGHLY questionable considering how they've rated previous movies which we've seen and found wanting.

I'd wait for the word of mouth.

I'm hoping it is good though!

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

I'm not a fan of super hero movies, but I was curious. Generally, Marvel does a good job entertaining it's audience and I'm sure this will do well. Chadwick Boseman did well in the few scenes I saw him in in Civil War.

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[–] DracTarashV2 (4476) 6 years ago

Here

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/02/09/black-panther-reviews-sabotage-imdb-score/

Those calling BS on this will come up with any other excuse for this rating but to quote De Niro in The Deer Hunter: This is THIS. Marvel has been on a roll for the past two years with critically acclaimed films that most audiences loved. A new anticipated one comes out and it’s being universally praised by those that have seen it (after its premiere everyone was raving about it), yet thousands of more “Marvel fans” who most likely haven’t seen the film are saying it’s terrible? Naw huh.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Once again, I come back to the fact that the movie hasn't come out yet and you have such diametrically opposed reviews that say it's 95% fresh from critics and 6.7/10 on IMDB. Both sides seem to be dishonest. I don't think this will be a 95% fresh move nor an abysmal failure. These ratings don't seem to add up and I don't think either the positive or negative reviews are real reviews.

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[–] DracTarashV2 (4476) 6 years ago

The article I shared, which speaks more truth than fiction, acknowledges that even the high scores don’t all add up (note: many actual fans took it upon themselves to fight against this anti-Black Panther group). However, the amount of low ratings are far more questionable. No recent Marvel film that had glowing reviews by critics had an incredibly low IMDb rating prior to it being released worldwide. Yet currently, Black Panther remains the best reviewed Marvel/live-action superhero film not only on Rotten Tomatoes but also Metacritic (considered more trustworthy than RT by some). Still seems sketchy? Well, before BP was released in the UK, Hong Kong and Taiwan... u know, before real audiences got to see it... the film’s rating on IMDb stood at just 6.6 two days ago. As I’m writing this, the rating has gone up to 6.9. Update: it’s already back in the 7’s.

In conclusion, I believe without a single shadow of a doubt that the low IMDb rating was caused by a miserable army of trolls; I expect them to do the same to RT’s audience score. Nevertheless, I’m sure I - and many more - will end up agreeing with the “paid” critics on this one.

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[–] NorrinRad (5083) 6 years ago

Once again, I come back to the fact that the movie hasn't come out yet and you have such diametrically opposed reviews that say it's 95% fresh from critics and 6.7/10 on IMDB. Both sides seem to be dishonest. I don't think this will be a 95% fresh move nor an abysmal failure. These ratings don't seem to add up and I don't think either the positive or negative reviews are real reviews.

You're mixing critic reviews with user ratings and the two are not in opposition with each other as far as equivalency goes. I think you are quite wrong to call the RT reviews dishonest based on the gamed IMDB user ratings.

The IMDB User Ratings are indeed being gamed. The number of 1's are being posted at a rate quite irregular for a movie that has only just started being released Worldwide. Even if you want to argue the point that the 10's are a reaction to the 1's that would require one to assume that the two groups are aware of each other.

At no time do the 1's ever outpost the 10's. My suggestion to you is that only one group is doing the posting and the intent is to de-legitimize the score. The group doing the 1's is the same group doing the 10's. There is no counter scoring by some determined section of people. No one is meeting up on facebook to coordinate a 10 campaign for BP.

Just as I feel your post assists in poisoning the position of RT as a trusted site by suggesting that the critics are rigging their reviews in favor of positivity for BP. I'm not stating that you are doing it intentionally just that your skepticism linked with the false narrative of IMDB User scoring taints RT and the BP rating.

You're impugning the integrity of all the RT critics and reviewers by suggesting they are being either paid by Disney or are cowering to Black Activism or afraid of a Black-lash and being called racist.

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[–] NorrinRad (5083) 6 years ago

The User Rating on RT is currently at 94% but that currently just measures the +40K users who want to SEE BP in theaters. Again not a review of the movie as of yet.

I've always wondered how RT transitions those numbers to the User Ratings after the release of the movie. Why would the numbers of those just wanting to see the movie be added to the overall rating of the movie???

They don't say on their site why and how that happens. There just isn't any detail.

Another note on RT ratings and that is the two categories of Top Critics and All Critics. Currently BP has a 100% score from top critics (30). Be prepared for the knock against them being that none of them are from international countries. So they must all be in the tank for BP, Disney, Black Activism and therefore dishonest or scared.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

First, I am not impugning anyone's integrity without proper reason to be skeptical. Critics are not above being manipulated for positive reviews. It's a human trait as old as human interaction. How many films have you seen in which the critic reviews are stellar and viewer reviews are abysmal. Either there is a disconnect between the critic and the viewer or the critic has an agenda. Just look at Ghostbusters . I recommend you look up the history of positive quotes on film posters and dvd cases. Second, I take issue with the assertion that one side is rating a movie negatively for some social reason while assuming the other side wouldn't behave in a similar fashion for the positive. The reason I'm posting the two sources, IMDB and RT is because they are the two of the most popular sites used for movie reviews. Personally, i could care less if this movie is good or not. I find the rating issue to be interesting. Its just a movie. There will be more.

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[–] NorrinRad (5083) 6 years ago

First, I am not impugning anyone's integrity without proper reason to be skeptical. Critics are not above being manipulated for positive reviews. It's a human trait as old as human interaction. How many films have you seen in which the critic reviews are stellar and viewer reviews are abysmal. Either there is a disconnect between the critic and the viewer or the critic has an agenda. Just look at Ghostbusters.

Yes. You are. There is zero data, proof or information to suggest that the RT critics are (1.) scared of a black lash and (2.) being paid.

There is none. You are just speculating and assuming based on flawed evidence.

Here is a term for you: Confirmation Bias the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Why must the Critic have an agenda because the Users rate something differently? Or better put, why do you think that the critic has to agree or disagree with you personally about a movie or whatever they are reviewing and rating?

You're accusing the critics of deceit and or dishonesty.

And as I said what you posted about the two sites aren't even equivalent. The User Rating on IMDB for BP is 6.7 there currently isn't a User Rating on RT and there isn't currently a Critic rating on IMDB that I am aware of.

The quotes on DVD covers and posters are marketing quotes without validations and mean ZERO. You can take issue with the 10's vs 1's all you want. What you can't prove or disprove is that there are indeed two sides with competing agendas. All you can state is that IMDB user ratings are being gamed and IMDB is making no effort to fix their system. Why? All of the previous ratings would become useless and worthless. IMDB wants to show up on those DVD covers and posters like RT is being used today but that ship has sailed for IMDB.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Actually, the only person saying anything about a "black lash" is you. Critics are paid to watch movies. Saying they aren't paid is foolish. Critics also use their reviews to build a profile and increase their career. This is why those quotes "which mean zero" are used so often. They are used to build a career profile. As for actual reviews, you'll see a lot of big names (Kevin Smith) who've given positive reviews to crap movies to get clout with studios. But don't pay attention to history or human nature. Those things don't matter.

As for me accusing critics of deceit, you're only half right. I'm actually am accusing both sides of deceit. Because... They're human. Humans do things like give false reviews for ideological purposes, political purposes, bad moods, good moods, money, status, or sh!ts and giggles. to assume that critics are above this is foolish. The same goes for the 1 star reviewers.

Speaking of speculation; we are on a forum and you are just as equally guilty of speculating as I am. You have not seen the movie nor do you know the critics or viewers personally. The only evidence you've provided is more speculation from another keyboard warrior like you and me. Face it Charlie, you're just advocating for the RT score because you like the site. That's okay. If you want to believe the reviews, that's your prerogative. If someone, like me, doesn't match up with that point of view, oh well. It's a drop in the bucket of online commentary.

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[–] NorrinRad (5083) 6 years ago

I brought up the Black Lash because that is indeed one of the accusations brought against the current RT critics for BP on THIS board. No one is stating that YOU said that. Did I?

Critics are paid to watch movies by the rag, site or organizations that employ them. A person working for Disney is NOT a critic. If you are talking about YouTube reviewers they are paid by advertising on YouTube or whatever service, NOT by the movie industry directly but of course indirectly by advertisements from all over the spectrum. You're still suggesting that their reviews are bought and paid for by one side or another.

WB owns part of RT why aren't all of the reviews for WB movies on RT great then? Because the critics and reviewers don't work for RT. Why can't Universal or Warner pay critics to give rotten ratings to Disney movies? What's up with that?

I have no skin in the game for RT. I don't work for RT. I'm not even a keyboard warrior, whatever that means. I haven't seen BP. I haven't rated BP.

As far as evidence goes I have only presented the actual data from both sites without prejudice, speculation or bias. I proposed and suggested to you an alternative to 10's and 1's but never stated that I was doubted the reviewers/critics because they never done anything besides provide a review.

You on the other hand suggested their reviews are suspect because they differ from users and possibly yours. I neither like nor dislike RT. You on the other hand have the credibility problem and a voiced agenda. You distrust RT and have false assumptions to prove why you distrust the site and the reviews.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

"Yes. You are. There is zero data, proof or information to suggest that the RT critics are (1.) scared of a black lash and (2.) being paid."

That's you putting me into that lot. Don't assume. It makes an ass of you and me.

Did I bring up YouTube reviewers as my basis for my opinion? Did I bring up a "Rag" paper? You're assuming more and putting intentions into my words. That's your bias and not mine.

You may have no skin in the game for RT, but you're accusing me of impugning their integrity on the bottom of a movie forum by a guy who has no sway on the positive or negative aspects of a film. Personally, I appreciate you think so highly of my opinion, but this keyboard warrior is like you, a nobody typing back and forth with another nobody about nothing (keyboard warrior).

The evidence you provided actually had bias in it. It focused only on the negative reviews and suggested it was all alt right trolls. Some people just don't like super hero movies because there are so many of them now and days (17 for MCU alone).

I didn't go after RT because I have beef with the critics. I went after the scores of these movies because they are prematurely released and inferred. This seem wrong (my assumption). Now, go ahead and come back with accusations of me being some guy against the system. I don't mind playing keyboard warrior with another assumer.

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[–] NorrinRad (5083) 6 years ago

Quioby1

Once again, I come back to the fact that the movie hasn't come out yet and you have such diametrically opposed reviews that say it's 95% fresh from critics and 6.7/10 on IMDB. Both sides seem to be dishonest. I don't think this will be a 95% fresh move nor an abysmal failure. These ratings don't seem to add up and I don't think either the positive or negative reviews are real reviews.

You are correct in that you didn't say WHY they are both dishonest. But YOU said that they are dishonest and yes I stated that you said that without evidence and as such you are impugning their integrity. Others have stated why they think the critics are being swayed or manipulated, but not you. You've just lumped critics into humans that have bad days, make mistakes and overall not very good at their jobs. (Their job performance is my statement and not yours.)

You do state that Critics/Reviewers are the following though:

*** Humans do things like give false reviews for ideological purposes, political purposes, bad moods, good moods, money, status, or sh!ts and giggles. to assume that critics are above this is foolish. The same goes for the 1 star reviewers. ***

Can't trust them darn humans to do anything!!!

The scores on IMDB have nothing to do with the RT Critics/Reviewers as they HAVE seen the movie. The vast majority of the IMDB User ratings have nothing to do with the movie because they haven't seen it. Why does one relate to the other as the basis for your skepticism?

There is zero data, information or even a priori experiences that leads one to distrust their reviews.

Except: Star Wars TLJ! There it is. And for you the BP reviews come off as a boilerplate as if they all got together and decided to just cut and paste. Additionally for you they are HIGHLY questionable because they've rated BP some how different than other movies. Curious, how? What is it about the BP ratings that are different than let's say Paddington 2? Hmmmm, it got 100%?

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Actually. Explain to me why all but 3 reviews from critics are positive on RT.

Why asm I asking about BP? Because it's there.

RT may not be subject to non-viewers opinion before a movie is released, but that still doesn't stop the fact that reviewers can make false reviews and use their position to promote a movie. So, your statement about their integrity is an assumption that they are honest. If that's your belief, go ahead and believe it. I don't trust people to be honest or good at their work.

Paddington got 98% from critics, the general audience scores it at 80%. Which score seems more reasonable? If you say 98%, then your too invested in critic's opinions. The 98% rating only solidifies my opinion that critics aren't giving an honest or, caveat ahead, reasonable opinion. Hence, I don't agree that they hold much more value.

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[–] NorrinRad (5083) 6 years ago

I didn't go after RT because I have beef with the critics. I went after the scores of these movies because they are prematurely released and inferred. This seem wrong (my assumption). Now, go ahead and come back with accusations of me being some guy against the system. I don't mind playing keyboard warrior with another assumer.

I'm not going after you. I'm digging into your opinion and the basis for that opinion. Everyone has entitlement to their own opinions but have no ownership to their own set of facts.

It is your opinion that I am a keyboard warrior bent on coming after you, a self-proclaimed keyboard warrior. Whatever that means.

RT scores, reviews, ratings based on All critics viewing the movie = IMDB User ratings based on SOME seeing the movie: Makes for a bad skepticism basis and does lead to Confirmation Bias.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Yet, the numbers between audience and critics dont line up in most cases. Perhaps it's because a critic isn't in touch with the audience or they're not being honest. Either way, their opinion isn't for the average moviegoer. If they are overselling the film, they're disrespecting the actual movie. The same goes for everyone giving it a negative view without seeing it. Perhaps the solution is to call them all blowhards and wait for the movie. But, you know, let's give a group of people you don't know more credit than the otheer group of peopple you don't know.

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[–] RoloTony (1189) 6 years ago

IMDB doesn't have the traffic it used to since they axed the forums. Their numbers are wonky now.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

That's fair.

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[–] lordbishop34 (1442) 6 years ago

Since I am going to catch it on Blu Ray anyways, I can be patient with the reviews. Many of the critic reviews you can pretty much skip, but I find it unlikely some of the most negative user reviews are legit either. So I am going to wait awhile to get an idea. I am hoping we wont get the overabundance of BS 10 reviews and 1 reviews but that is unavoidable these days it seems. Generally the group of people trying to "correct" for the people possibly trying to tank the rating always seem considerably larger than the people actually taking the time out to low rate it. TLJ is an example of this with more 10 star reviews than 1,2,3 and 4 stars reviews put together.

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[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

It has gone up "mysteriously" to 7, two days before release. What the odds, huh?

Could it be... cough, paid vote, cough?

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