MovieChat Forums > Severance (2022) Discussion > This show is a bit of a mess (SPOILERS)

This show is a bit of a mess (SPOILERS)

posted 2 years ago by avortac4 (3541)
13 replies | jump to latest

I had no idea what this show would be like, except the core idea that was spoiled for me.

I like the charisma of the actors and of course the Leo-effect of Britt Lowie (these Leo-women have incredible charm, even when they're just 'normal-looking', like she is - she's pleasant to look at, though) adds a whole dimension to it all.

The problems of this show are pretty typical; BECAUSE it's a TV show, things can afford to take their sweet time. I mean, SO much time. So much more time than you would ever need.

I think this show could easily be condensed to a movie, and even maybe two or three episodes without losing anything essential, just useless bits without dialogue, scenery prrn, endless marching in boring hallways and long stares, plus all those overly-long WEIRD scenes.

I really don't like the masonic symbolism everywhere, from the checkerboards to the names "DEVon (as in Devil)", "HELL-y", "HELen", "HAR (pirate laugh) MONY (money)", KIL(L)-mer(cy), and of course.. OF COURSE the GOATS, because what animal could be more satanic?

(It's somewhat weird, though, that Lamb would be the opposite of goat, but that's religious symbolism for ya)

The 'waffle party' was like a Kubrick movie in all the masonic weirdness, and I bet there isn't any decent parent in the world that would show the temper tantrum of the gray-haired witch to their kids unedited.

I am sure I forgot many other things like that, but I think I made my point, so moving on.

The acting performances are great, but I hate all the slow 'I can't think of anything to say' shots followed by some weak stuttering, which happens WAY too much, even in the fictional TV program where the corporate shill is 'debating' the 'activist' who barely gets to say a word without being spoken over.

Our protagonist is very slow in speaking as well, and sometimes his speech is a bit incongruent - when he 'suddenly remembers good manners', it almost always comes off as disingenuous, as if he is just reciting learned sentences instead of expressing something from his heart.

At first, I couldn't figure out why the woman would do this to herself, if her personality CLEARLY rejects the whole thing so violently (literally!), and she even tries to do the finalizing rope-play in the stupidly designed elevator.

The ending kinda explains why they didn't screen her better or why she would want to do it, and it is kind of a cool reveal I didn't expect.

The show is incredibly murky, dark, happens in the winter, full of slow fades, camera pans, showing us 'nothing' for extended periods of time, and completely robotic, emotionless people that they TRY to liven up in some episodes a bit.

The 'helper' woman brings an interesting, X-files-esque 'whistleblower' narration into the story that just.. disappears. This was the most disappointing thing; the most interesting character, the only one with all the answers, that could help people become 'normal' again, just DISAPPEARS from the movie! Every time I think it's her, oh.. it's the irrelevant 'date' woman. Sigh.

How could the protagonist drink so heavily and much and yet be completely sober when he goes to work?

How does 'isolating memory access' generate a completely different personality?

Why would anyone choose this kind of procedure without any failsafes? They should be allowed to have one friend that knows 'both personalities' so there's at least smooth transitions or something.

If the 'elevator' somehow (how?) switches their memory/personality back and forth depending on which direction it's going, the process is clearly automated. How does this work, and why is the 'out-of-work-version' (can't remember its name, overwork contingency or something?) SO incredibly convoluted and complicated?

If it's meant to be used only by TWO people simultaneously, then WHY is it possible for one individual to use it anyway? War Games did this kind of thing much better. HOW LAZY were those engineers that thought "well, one individual can still reach both keys, so this is probably far enough a distance"? WHAT?!

Also, WHY is Dylan 100% confident he can do it alone, EVEN THOUGH he's repeatedly told it's designed for two people? He hasn't SEEN the damn thing! Does he know just how lazy the engineers are in that corporation? He's the luckiest bastard ever for those engineers to have been SO incompetent, though.. with any competence, it'd be game over before it starts.

What happened with the wife, and why? Why would she fake dying in a car crash? Since she HAS a 'outie' life as well, why doesn't she contact the protagonist? Why and how can the protagonist think his wife died, and why would the wife think it was necessary to fake a car crash? Was he a stalker to his own wife somehow? WHAT?!

Why is everyone someone? Seriously, EVERYONE is somehow involved with everyone else to the point where it's not believable.

How come they don't hear a baby's cry just because he's in a slightly separate room? Those damn things are _LOUD_!!

[–] avortac4 (3541) 2 years ago

So this guy takes this demanding office job that seems to have no meaning..

(and we STILL don't know what that corporation does, which is just complete CHEATING.. you can't create a mystery like that and then just drag it for 9 episodes, never revealing it! The last episode should at least tell us everything we want to know, EVEN if there's a second season coming - this is just unfair to the viewer, dangling a carrot and never letting us closer to it)..

..just to get over the wife, who ALSO took a job in the same corporation (somehow?), without her EVER knowing that HE also works in the corporation, or that they work together, and so on.

Erasing memory doesn't erase emotions (even according to this movie), so why would it even work? Why would the protagonist think it's helping him?

Why did Petey (or whatever his name was) escape from his own doctor and not follow her post-op instructions? What happened there anyway? Why are the maps completely useless, but we spend SO much time showing that they might be important?

Petey seemed like a typical 'wise man with information' you see in shows, but then she just turns out to be a crazy old man that dies. What the .. why?

On one hand, this show subverts your expectations in an unsatisfying way (Petey could've been such a wonderful character with his inside knowledge, but I guess not), and THEN it uses clichés instead of something original, which is also unsatisfying. It's like it uses clichés when it's not good, but never when it would be good.

The ending I have seen in SO many movies, stories, TV shows, etc. that it's kind of boring already. Watch Charlie Sheen's 'The Arrival' and then the newer movie 'Moon', and TELL me the endings are not pretty much exactly the same.

I really was hoping to see more at the end; getting to know what happened with the 'wife that didn't die in car crash but the husband for some reason believes she did, and who never contacted her husband to tell him she's alive'..

[–] avortac4 (3541) 2 years ago

..getting to see what happened with the ridiculously old 'happy couple' (that G-word means 'happy' originally), and so on.

A couple of ridiculous things.. how come the old geezer knows not only that cars need keys, what car keys look like, what traffic is, how to drive a car, what certain model of car is supposed to look like AND SO ON - how come he can operate a map and then utilize it while driving, which 'that personality' has never done? Maybe there's some muscle memory and such, but he should be ABSOLUTELY terrified even attempting to drive a car. He shouldn't even know what car driving is or that it's possible, or what cars look like and so on.

He should be COMPLETELY disoriented by the sudden 'moving world' around the car, and not be able to relate his position in three-dimensional reality when it comes to driving.

It takes a LONG time to learn how to drive a car, but this guy is INSTANT expert. Then how come he can't remember other things? Why is the memory so SELECTIVE?

Why would he have CONVENIENTLY located Burt with a big X on a map anyway? How come he INSTANTLY knows where to look for for that information? What happened to the computers, internet maps and search engines, why paper map?

Why can an old, 8-bit-looking computer display REALTIME VOXEL graphics and animations that would've taken MEGABYTES of memory to display? Not to mention the crystal-clear SAMPLES..

Is this movie taking place in the seventies or is it 2022? I mean, you see the irresistible rectangular minicomputers (because OF COURSE you have to pander to smartphone zombies and women's baby rabies in every single story ever, I am just surprised there wasn't a marriage (or could've been, I skip over that stuff)), but then they work on really inefficient-looking systems straight from the seventies (not that THOSE ever really existed, but whatever).

I always thought the screen display looks just SO wrong. The pixels are wrong size for the monitor, it's not a honest resolution..

[–] avortac4 (3541) 2 years ago

Plus, the pixel sizes seem to change and fluctuate, and the 'animations' (which there wouldn't have been on a char-based 1970s computer system that those things look like) are way too smooth and fluid.

Also, if the systems CAN use color (and clearly, they can), there's no reason for the monochromatic graphics (not that there was much in the way of graphics anyway).

This movie can't seem to COMPLETELY make up its mind whether these people are BRAINWASHED, or SYNTHETIC PERSONALITIES (that don't match with the original), or just MEMORY-RESTRICTED people. It seems to fluctuate inbetween, and I think it's a bit ridiculous that they talk about 'waking up' or 'being awake' meaning the MORE MEMORY-RESTRICTED version of their minds. How is it not just as much 'waking up' when they switch to their more normal mode, where they can more freely remember their whole history?

I guess this movie is trying to make us guess which is real - the original personality that remembers their childhood, or the 'erased memory' version that only remembers work stuff.

And Delaware, for some reason..

My point is, who decides WHAT of the outside world they can remember and based on what criteria? They seem to know what a 'pie' is, but they are never fed anything that healthy in the workplace, so why do they know that word? Is language also affected, or do they remember and somehow understand all the english language they normally would, but without understanding the CONTEXT of words of things they have no memory of?

Would they understand cultural references, for example? Would they recognize Mickey Mouse, if they have no memory of it? Would they only recognize it visually but not know what the name is, and would they be able to conjure up a visual if they heard those words?

I mean, you can't REALLY do much corporate work effectively if you can't know anything about the outside world - can you even use language properly? Idioms? Jokes? Metaphors? Famous sayings, quotes, anecdotes, lyrics?

[–] avortac4 (3541) 2 years ago

In my opinion, the premise is a bit silly, because you can't REALLY work effectively if you forget everything about the outside world. You would have to be TAUGHT many basic concepts, like 'weight' or 'mass', 'atoms', 'protons' and so on.

The only reason why something that would ever be a thing that I can figure out, is 'sensitive information', but all these people do is some insignifigant number tossing, that somehow scares them (not explained how this works, though.. how can NUMBERS SCARE YOU?!).

It makes no sense. Only the corporation would really benefit for something so stupid.. also, treating people as 'different personalities' just because their memory functions differently based on their location (which means the flip/switch CAN be automated somehow, so no need for Dylan to hang onto badly designed security keys/levers/whatever).

Then again, even the corporation wouldn't really benefit from it.

If they really have no memory, why even let them ever become their 'normal' selves? The corporation could just keep them inside indefinitely, and they wouldn't know any different. They wouldn't know that any other world even exists, they wouldn't know about 'countries' or 'parents' or anything.

Wouldn't HYPNOSIS be a more effective, less harmful and more plausible way to do this anyway? Installing a stupid CHIP into your skull being normalized is just insane, probably partially why they made this show.

Using hypnosis would be not only more effective, the corporation could do ANYTHING they want with it, not just some memory thing. They could increase loyalty, brainwash the people, and doing this every time they come to work .. heck, WHY LET THEM EVER GO HOME or even HAVE a life outside the corporation?

They could just keep them under heavy hypnosis, make them sleep eight hours every night, and wake them up with gentle hypnosis, work as effectively as they can, etc.

I mean, it's all about control, but there's basically no security .. nothing physical anyway.

[–] avortac4 (3541) 2 years ago

It's ridiculous there's no physical security, no security guards, no robots or anything. People still just OBEY, which is so unrealistic I almost shut off the whole thing.

Why would someone as rebellious as the woman is just OBEY when someone says 'get in there' or 'read this'. She says 'I don't want to', but she should've been sayign "FCK YOU!!" while punching the guy very hard in the eye, stealing the security key and escaping the compound with any notes she wants to write herself.

I mean, if all of them just attacked the bosses physically, they would EASILY WIN and conquer everything.

PROVEN by the only scene where anything like this happens - the 'whistleblower woman' uses a baseball bat with the security guy and BAM! now they have a keycard. ALL because of a bit of violence that NO ONE EVER TRIES TO USE when they're being 'handled' and ordered around.

What? Why? The woman is ready to throw the speaker to the protagonist guy's forehead, but she's not willing to do anything more, and always OBEYS when someone says 'come' or 'go in there' or 'read this', and her only objection to 'read this' was a weak 'I don't want to'. She is under no obligation to tell anyone her wants or feelings, just QUESTION that order, you incongruent hag! Ask why should I, or tell him let me out or I will bash your skull in or whatever.

There should either be security, or people should PHYSICALLY REBEL, the situation, as it is, without hypnosis or any proper mind control, is ridiculous, because there's also no bodily physical control.

WHY DO PEOPLE OBEY SO EASILY?!

(I know there are books about 'Compliance', but come on.. the woman hadn't even read those books)

[–] avortac4 (3541) 2 years ago

I also wonder about people's personalities, and why they would even change.

Someone that has lived in a palace, being served everything, and had everything done for them by servants, would not be a feisty, resourceful individual, they would expect the same treatment to continue, and when it doesn't, they would be SHOCKED and seek someone to complain to (which explains Karens of the world).

This woman, however, acts and behaves like she has never been in any high position in her life. Just because she doesn't remember something, doesn't change her BEHAVIOUR, she would still have those instincts, for crying out loud.

So just erasing memory doesn't completely CHANGE you - you will still have the same values, you will still have the same desires, likes, hates, and so on. But this show's makers want us to think it does. Look, if you hate injustice, then lose your memory, you won't suddenly love injustice - you will still hate it. This is proven by people losing their memory when they come to this world (kind of this show's premise in a slightly less psychotic, less ridiculous and more cosmic-scale form), and yet retaining their spiritual cultivation level and value system.

[–] legnadibrom (5752) a year ago

did you even watch it past the debut episode?

[–] mechajutaro (2788) 2 years ago

This show is a bit of a mess

Less so than the one the staff is left to clean up, at every cinema patronized by Paul Reubens

[–] KutWrite (1220) 9 months ago

Haha!

Pre-Reubens' death laff.

[–] BenStrousers (482) 9 months ago

That's alotta waffle.

[–] KutWrite (1220) 9 months ago

I see most of the flaws you found. I think, though, the reason I bought most of the story anyway is:

1. I've worked for several corporations who tried to do the same with normal brainwashing techniques (peer pressure, lots of rules (e.g. dress codes, standard office layouts) that lead up to huge compliance over time. The two best examples were Pacific Telephone (made me chuckle at the name Cobel, anagram for "Bell Co ?") and CF Braun, an engineering co. The latter had a series of books by the founder-brothers that was strongly reminiscent of Lumon's series of manuals and "wise sayings."

2. Suspension of disbelief, figuring there'd be a way around some of the flaws inherent in our skepticism. i just figured the chip placement and design took care of those.

3. The characters' (actors') belief in the system.

4. The mass obedience to weak, unqualified authority figures during the recent "COVID" scam... Worldwide fear of a virus that was never even isolated, let alone clinically associated with a disease, and subjugation to an untested shot never even claimed to cure or prevent it!

[–] smidget28 (778) 3 months ago

couldn't disagree more on the pace. It's so much part of the tension and the discomfort I felt the whole time....just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

The pacing makes it more menacing and uncanny.

[–] TheGutterMonkey (292) 3 months ago

It's the first season. Most of the things you're complaining about haven't even been established to be faults. They're just mysteries about the company, how the chips work, the lore behind Kier, the story behind Mark's wife, how much do the innie characters ACTUALLY remember, etc., that have yet to be answered.

And why would they be answered in the first season? The slow unraveling of those mysteries is what's keeping it fascinating and what has people chomping at the bit to see what happens next. Have you never seen Dark? BSG? LOST? The Leftovers? Westworld? The OA? Mr. Robot? For most of these, you're given mysteries in the first episodes that persist throughout multiple seasons until you're finally given the resolutions (usually gradually, piece by piece, season by season, as more mysteries are introduced along the way). And audiences absolutely love it. Incidentally, that's what annoyed David Lynch so much about Twin Peaks. He was forced by executives to reveal who killed Laura Palmer too early (which was the big question the rest of the show revolved around). Expectedly, audiences began to tune out after that.

Of course they're not going to tell what the corporation does already, or tell us what's up with the anti-Lumon group, or explain the exact process that led Petey to outie Mark, or shell out too many details about Mark's wife, her "death", or what the company is doing with her. LOST doesn't work if you explain what the island is, what the smoke monster is, what the whispers are, etc. in the first season. The first season was just building up those mysteries, not answering them. And, more importantly, establishing these characters and this world (from their inside-the-box perspective), as we watch them slowly realize that things aren't right and gradually decide to start breaking out of the box, rebelling against the people in control. Which is why that's what the season climaxed with.