MovieChat Forums > Wild Wild West (1999) Discussion > Tell me, what's wrong with this movie?

Tell me, what's wrong with this movie?


I don't really understand why so many people consider this a bad film. Yes, plot makes no sense and it's completely over the top, but what else do you expect for steampunk comedy set in 19th century.

Movie has style, great music and lots of hilarious moments. If someone finds them offensive, so what. That's part of the joke. It also has one of the best opening credits i've seen and a load of memorable punchlines. Avantii...

Being quite an oddball as movie I only give this 6 though. It's still truly underrated movie.

"I learned that from a chinaman "
Clang!
"I just made that up."

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It'd be easier to tell you what's right about this movie, but I can't think of anything.
Any movie that's allegedly based on a TV series, should at least make some attempt at being true to the original characters. The screenwriter of this dreck obviously made no attempt whatsoever. One glaringly obvious flaw is the banter between Jim West and Artemis Gordon. In the TV series, Jim always called his partner Arte, not Gordon. Oddly, Will Smith seems to have been suffering under the delusion that Gordon was his cohort's first name rather than his last name. Calling him Gordon rather than Arte implies a much less intimate friendship than calling him by his first name; In the TV series, you always felt that Jim and Arte were close pals as well as working partners. In the film, they seem like nothing more than co-workers who have no genuine feelings of brotherly affection for each other. Aside from that, the movie has a weak plot that comes nowhere close to emulating the serio-comic tone of the TV series. In over 50 years of movie-going, this is one of only a handful of films that I've walked out on before the finish, but this is the only one I was watching at home at the time.

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Blame not the screenwriter, blame its producer Jon Peters. Watch this, it will explain everything,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUwkqeI7XWk

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Not necessarily so. Remember "MacGyver"? Nobody called him Angus, everybody called him MacGyver or Mac, even those closest to him.

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Because Angus is just the silliest name.

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The lack of that close pal-ness is due to this being set before they even knew each other. A prequel. Because you walked out before it ended, you didn't see the scene at the end of the movie where Jim did call him Artie. Meaning they've grown to liking and trusting each other over the events of the film.

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Well I believe this film is similar to other movies like "The Brady Bunch Movie" and the comedy film"Starsky and Hutch." Both of these films were also based on classic television shows but they too detracted greatly from the original shows themes and feel. In fact the two films I mentioned were sort of poking fun at the classic shows for their cheesy subject matter and often unintentionally funny moments. This is supposed to be an over the top, light hearted movie that's not to be taken seriously but rather watched for pure entertainment value and a few laughs. I really think this movie gets a bad rap frankly. It's certainly not as good as MIB but it's also not greatly worse in my opinion either.

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If I had paid $12 to see this in theaters, I'd be pissed. Watching it on Syfy I thought it was a hilariously over-the-top bad movie and I enjoyed it a lot.

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The plot does make sense: Save the scientists, stop Loveless. And yes it is underrated, I must obviously watch more westerns than naysayers.

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While I will get into more in my mind objective reasons for why I think it's a bad movie in it's own right it's hard not to just rail on it for being (IMO at least) a disgrace to the television series which even at its craziest in its later seasons wasn't...well...this. Jim West and Loveless in particular getting the worst of it. Making the former a rather unlikable protagonist (more on that later, as I consider it a more genuine issue beyond adaptation) and the latter has none of the charisma or panache of the character played by Michael Dunn who also still managed to retain the feeling of being a genuine threat. And is instead replaced by something that is just crude, obnoxious, and comes off as too much of a joke to be threatening. Kenneth Branagh has proven that he is a great actor who could play those traits I mentioned before, and I guess that they could have sold me on his casting and making him a paraplegic rather than a "little person" in order to facilitate it (though I still would have preferred the latter) if played and written well enough and they just don't accomplish it IMO. Changing things is inevitable in any adaptation, but when you change around something that worked fine with something inferior or less interesting I am forced to wonder why it was done anyway if it's not a worthwhile trade-off.

I think it's biggest problem as a piece on its own terms is the same as that of Batman & Robin. In that it is largely a farcical camp-fest in terms of tone (which on its own is not a bad thing in of itself), but in certain places try injecting serious/deep material and it just does not gel. In that film's case it was the Alfred/Nora sub-plots, where they are dying and we see Bruce and Victor dealing with that in places. Alfred brining up really interesting philosophical/thematic ideas. Coping with/accepting death. Questioning whether or not Bruce is trying to master death itself, etc. But the ideas are not fully explored and the rest of the film is played so ridiculously that at the end none of it matters. The same kind of problem comes into play when they start trying to genuinely deal with the race thing. Particularly when they long into the film bring in the massacred "New Liberty" sub-plot where West's parents were killed and what not all of which is played dead serious, with that than being played out through the rest of the film paired up with pieces like the drag scene that feels like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon. With the whole racism idea otherwise feeling done in a half-hearted fashion at best which gives the film an overtly awkward feel in those scenes. IMO you either commit to it, or you don't. If either film wanted to be nothing but a wildly over the top piece of camp than fine, but don't inject that kind of heavy material which throws it off balance and makes the films seem both muddled and confused. That's not to say you cannot balance some a good dose of comedic material and serious storytelling (I like Batman Forever more than most. And while not a great movie I think it does an overall decent, though not perfect, job of doing that) Another example that more people would probably agree do a good job at this include Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl among others.

And this is where we get into what I was talking about earlier with the protagonist. While Will Smith clearly puts in more effort than someone like say Clooney as Batman, that character just comes off as bland and lazy more than anything else. Smith's Jim West IMO is not that likable in spite of Will Smith's innate likability. He plays it cool as usual, but the character acts too much like a jerk whilst the film seems unaware of just how far it goes. (And given that the film was intended to be just a fun summer blockbuster for the popcorn munching audience, I doubt they intended for him to be one) The Nostalgia Chick IMO summed it up best when she called his character, "Jim West is arrogant, careless, narcissistic, misogynistic, bigoted and impulsive. He nigh constantly shows disrespect for all human life, and throughout the course of the film neither learns the benefit of changing his ways nor does he feel any need or incentive to rectify his behavior. He is a jerk with no character arc. In short he is the Anti-Agent J." There is just too much of a sense of mean-spiritedness with his character that he is hard to root for. There is no real camaraderie between he and Artemis Gordon. I don't mind the idea that the two start out as rivals, but even at the very end West seems to still resent him. The Get Smart film did something similar Max and 99, but they went all the way with it and had the two get a better understanding of each other by the end. It seems like the way this film is heading at first with all the lines about how "We need to put aside our differences" but it feels only like lip-service as they don't really do anything with it.

And the only other major supporting ally character he gets some screen time is Selma Hayek's love interest who does not really add much to the plot in the long-run, writing her out would not take much effort at all really, he only ever treats her like a disposable object. Granted some early Bond films veered dangerously close to this, particularly in Connery's, but even then (beyond the fact that those were made in the early/mid 1960's rather than the late 1990's) he does show he can be more than that given what feels like his genuine friendship and rapport with Moneypenny or certain times where he does seem legitimately effected by what happens to them to some degree as is the case with the Masterson's in Goldfinger. Jim West in this film does not even have any of that. Perhaps an interesting character could have come with all of this if they had spent more time developing these factors (as well as being more aware of the kind of character they were writing) but IMO they do not do so.

Though I need to stress that I am not trying to insult anyone who likes this film by saying it, and am only trying to get across my own perspective on the film. It's not like nothing works. Some of the jokes can be genuinely funny, a lot of the production values are nice, and Kevin Kline does a great job in his dual roles as Gordon and Grant for instance. I think he could have worked quite well in the role of Artemis even in a more straight adaptation of the series. But on the whole the film just does not congeal right to me. If it wanted to be a complete farce of a western that treated its story and the racial content in a more consistent manner, than it should have been more like Blazing Saddles. If it wanted to be a more serious western with a fun lighthearted tone and a good dose of humor without going into farcical territory, than in should have been like (Kevin Kline's own ironically enough) Silverado. Those films know what they are and either go all the way with something or find a proper balance. Something like this IMO does not manage to do so.

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i really liked the movie, it was good and nice...

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No.

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its one of my guilty pleasures to watch. so is van helsing.

Too bad, so sad. best line ever!

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I know right?! I think it's stupidly funny and definitely underrated.

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It is underrated. I just recently watched it again. though it is off-putting to put a black man in a western only b/c Smith's name could greenlight "Cleopatra 2." I guess it served to have a running gag of his race vs. Arliss' wheelchair jokes. It still is much more entertaining than "22 Jump Street." That thing was horrid.

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I think there is one great big wrong thing with it...and a host of little things.

The great big wrong thing is: setting up West and Gordon so that they pretty much hate each other for the entire movie...even right down to the final scene OF the movie when they are riding the Steel Tarantula into the sunset.
Moreover, the movie sets up West as "superior" to Gordon and finding Gordon to be an idiot most of the time. When Gordon does something right near the end, West grudgingly acknowledges it saying something like "well, what do you know, you CAN do something right."

Whereas on the old sixties TV show, West and Artemis respected each other deeply, went on dates together with equally pretty women(in the movie, the two compete over Selma Hayek), and were the best of friends as well as partners.

And the show had a nice "yin/yang" effect: West was the brawn and Artie was the brains BUT...West could be very smart at times and Artie could fight pretty good himself. I've always contended that The Wild Wild West provided young schoolboys with an excellent template for friendship: maybe the strongest, toughest boy in school COULD be best friends with the brainest guy in school.

It was demoralizing to watch Will Smith's West putting down Kevin Kline's Artemis an idiot. (I sense a bit of Smith's superstar ego at work, too; Smith said he turned down Django unchained because he didn't like the idea of "supporting player" Chris Walz getting to kill the main bad guy.)

So that's the BIG problem with the movie version of Wild Wild West.

The little problems are rather all along the way: bad comedy lines for Smith(like his long drawn out groan of "that...is...a...human...HEAD," and the entire ridiculous scene where, facing a bunch of rednecks who want to lynch him, he tries to define "red...neck." (That scene was evidently added to the movie for "more comedy for Smith.") And there is the matter of Loveless' squad of supermodel villainesses...acting poorly and throwing bad punches.



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What I liked: Kenneth Branaugh's WAY over the top accent as Loveless("Me Casa is SEW Casa!") and the great effects that brought his "half a man" to life. A credits sequence that ALMOST recaptured the flavor of the original's great credits(before devolving into rap and silliness); and yeah, that giant robot of war based on a tarantula was a pretty cool effect.

But not of that bought out the central flaw of the film (West and Artie as enemies) or its overall sense of a "superstar vanity package."

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But not of that bought out the central flaw of the film (West and Artie as enemies)


They may have been looking at this as a franchise with them being a little more buddy-buddy in a sequel. I had never seen the original series prior to this so that element didn't bother me. But having since familiarized myself with it I can see why that would be an issue for fans. I kind of had feelings like that watching The Dukes of Hazzard movie where Bo and Luke bickered a lot and Enos who was a trusted family friend on the show was basically treated like a patsy.

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They may have been looking at this as a franchise with them being a little more buddy-buddy in a sequel.

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Too bad they never got the chance.

BTW, when the movie was in pre-production, George Clooney had signed on as Artemis. He quit and was replaced by lesser star Kevin Kline. I wonder is Smith pushed Clooney out or if Clooney felt the script played Artemis as too much of an idiot. Or maybe he just saw it as a bad script.

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I had never seen the original series prior to this so that element didn't bother me.

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That would likely make for "easier" viewing. Some movies do fine with the heroes bickering with each other. But West and Gordon were just this side of Captain Kirk and Spock as 60's role models of friendship. Indeed, Kirk and Spock were a lot LIKE West and Gordon...the brawn and the brains.

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But having since familiarized myself with it I can see why that would be an issue for fans.

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It was for me. Even as a matter of "light summer entertainment" I found myself getting enraged by how West disrespected Gordon...and I find myself blaming Will Smith for allowing that to occur.


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I kind had feelings like that watching The Dukes of Hazzard movie where Bo and Luke bickered a lot and Enos who was a trusted family friend on the show was basically treated like a patsy.

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I saw neither the series nor the movie of Dukes of Hazzard, but we are obviously in the same territory here: having the heroes disrespect each other disrepects the FANS, as does treating a trusted family friend into a patsy. Fans of TV series followed those series for YEARS, and "made friends with the characters".

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Compare this to the movie versions of Star Trek, where the inspiring friendship of the emotional Kirk and the logic-oriented Spock anchored the series -- including when Spock professed his friendship to Kirk while dying(well, for a movie or so.) This friendship spawned a hit and sequels. Wild Wild West COULD have had this success.

I would like to note that this complaint about the movie of the Wild Wild West turning West and Artemis into enemies actually served as a "special article" in the Los Angeles Times movie section back when the movie came out in 1999. So Warners, Smith and company all got told off on the pages of the hometown paper read by all in the movie business.

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Yeah when I watched some episodes of the series after seeing this, I really liked how Artemis was portrayed for the most part as an equal to James West.

I only mention this because I just learned it myself last week (after posting here for over a year), but if you click on "formatting help" when writing a reply (under the add reply button), it shows you the way to reference quotes from previous posters or provide links, spoiler warnings, bold or italics

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