MovieChat Forums > Frasier (1993) Discussion > Frasier getting the grammar wrong?!

Frasier getting the grammar wrong?!


In the episode "Mother Load pt. 1" Martin says to Frasier: "It's just you and I now". Frasier corrects him saying: "You and me, dad." But actually the grammatically correct version is Martin's, the "I" being the subject and not the object. Frasier's version is grammatically incorrect but often used in informal settings. I'm surprisingly the writers erred on that one as they love giving Frasier some ridiculously over the top words to use that show his erudition.

reply

This was in dreadful season 9 when Lori Kirkland was the head writer..even Kelsey Grammar publicly apologised for the declining writing in the last few seasons.

reply

I asked AI: Is "It's just you and I now" grammatically correct?

Following is the answer:

No, "It's just you and I now" is not grammatically correct.

The correct phrase is "It's just you and me now."

Here's why:

"You" and "I" are pronouns. "You" is the second-person pronoun (used for the person being spoken to), and "I" is the first-person pronoun (used by the speaker to refer to themself).
In this sentence, "you" and "I" are the subject of the sentence, along with "it" (though "it" is impersonal). The subject pronouns are the ones performing the action (existing alone in this case).
"Me" is the object pronoun, used when "you" and "I" are receiving the action.

An easy trick to remember which one to use is to take out "you and" and see if the sentence sounds natural with just "I" or "me." In this case, "It's just me now" sounds grammatically correct, so "me" is the right pronoun to use.

reply

You are correct, but I remember that from school.

reply

I can say that too, but people will likely argue with me, and you can't argue with AI.

reply

Ha! Once again, you are correct..

reply

Funny. My AI said the opposite. Your AI's response doesn't clarify anything. What sounds natural isn't helpful either. I also remember Niles answering the phone "This is he" and not "him." Saying that "me" or "him" is more informal makes more sense.

reply

I just tried 2 other AIs I usually use, the answers are the same. May I ask which AI were you using?

I also asked: Is "This is he" grammatically correct?

The answer is:

Yes, "This is he" is grammatically correct.

The pronoun "he" is in the nominative case, which is the correct case for the subject of a sentence. The verb "is" acts as a linking verb in this case, connecting the subject "this" to the predicate nominative "he".

However, it's also common to hear "This is him" in everyday speech. While technically "him" is in the accusative case, which is typically used for objects, "This is him" is widely accepted in informal contexts.

So, both options are understandable, but "This is he" is considered more formal and grammatically correct according to traditional rules.

The answer is given by https://gemini.google.com/app

The other 2 AIs I used are:
https://echatgpt.org/chat
https://iask.ai/

reply

LLMs know nothing and are authorities on nothing. They're incapable of thinking or reasoning. All they do is synthesise and regurgitate phrases they find in their training sets, and GIGO.

Now I happen to think "you and me" is the more natural and logical phrase, but not because some word-prediction software says so.

reply

I find your lack of faith in our AI overlord disturbing.

reply

Interesting point considering "you and I" is generally (incorrectly) considered "proper grammar" when used as objective pronouns. It's viewed as grammatical overcorrection, when people try to sound smart but don't understand that they're actually wrong.

I remember seeing it first in "Facts of Life," an old sitcom, where "she and I" as objective forms was commended as proper grammar

Obama uses it all the time: "They were very gracious to Michelle and I." Drives me batshit

So it makes sense that Frasier would be the type to correct the overcorrection. But you're right that Martin was NOT incorrect in this sense.

Now, there ARE arguments to be made that "is" can be a transitive verb in certain contexts, e.g., "woe is me." In that case, "is" actually means "is unto."

So I suppose "it's just you and me now" is actually "it's just down to you and me now" which WOULD be correct (and yes I realize the writers didn't come CLOSE to thinking about this hard)

Even if that were the case, it wouldn't be cause for Frasier to correct Martin -- at best, both versions would be acceptable

One thing I noticed about "Big Bang Theory" along those lines is that they were very careful to make Sheldon's annoying corrections actually correct in every case I can think of. I understand they also took pains to ensure the accuracy of the "science gobbledygook" in that show whether spoken or written on the whiteboards

clearly not the case in "Frasier"

reply

I just want to say your post is fantastic. You make excellent points.

reply