MovieChat Forums > By the Sword (1993) Discussion > Fascinating and under-rated film...

Fascinating and under-rated film...


I had never heard of this film before. It never seems to play on the tele, and it certainly never popped up in queue for the streaming services I sometimes use.

Interestingly enough, I only came across this film because someone mentioned it in a review of another movie starring Eric Roberts (which seems to be the way some of his lesser known films get around to those fascinated by his work, or lack thereof).

This film was definitely a 1990s film, and shockingly so given that most films at the start of the decade still feel as if they're well-worn on the decade prior. Yet here, other than the big hair, the film seemed to embrace the 90s in all its New York grandeur with ease.

Even more than that I was shocked at how relatable, down-to-Earth, and realistic the movie was. No big chases or over-dramatic blowouts (save the final fight at the end, which obviously had to happen as a payoff for the audience's crave for the duel the movie had been teasing all along).

I'm no sword expert, but the HEMA nerds who constantly rag on every other sword fight in every other movie about sword fights would probably like the more realistic portrayals of the combat during the tournament sequences, while those of us who prefer the classical portrayal of Hollywood fights have the final duel to sate our thirst.

The contrast between the styles (the classical, romantic style Suba uses and the modern style of hopping around to score a quick hit at the expense of any sort of actual swordplay) was highlighted well. It felt like the movie could have been a bit longer, and wrapped itself up rather quickly at the end, but it was very entertaining for what it is.

It's weird how Eric Roberts put so much into this role -- he came across as very studious and had the gait of retired ballet dancer. Yet this movie basically came out and died on the market.

One day I'll deep dive into what was up with his career and why it had the strange arc it did leading into the 1990s.

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I feel like I've heard of it or even seen it, but I can't recall. Maybe I'll give it a second watch.

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Weird you post this because, while I remember almost nothing at all about this film, I just thought about it a few days ago. I remember renting it on VHS years ago to watch with my dad simply because I knew he fenced in college and thought it looked like something fun to watch together.

I wish I could make some comment on the story--or anything really--but like I said, I remember virtually nothing about the movie. But I still clearly remember renting it and watching it with my pops.

It is weird that Eric Roberts, for a brief time, actually was an actor to be taken seriously with a real career, but as you say everything went to shit for him. I'll always have some place in my heart for him because of Best of the Best.

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I'll always have some place in my heart for him because of Best of the Best.


Yeah he still had that Best of the Best physique, which really helped sell him as a retired fencer and a Maestro. Also, Best of the Best is a really great film. It was one of those rare martial arts films that had great fight scenes and an actual character-driven story.

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Love Best of the Best. I've revisited it a few times as an adult and it holds up pretty well.

The makers of that film clearly were wanting to make a "serious" movie that would actually be appreciated by critics general moviegoers and not just martial arts fans. I think overall they succeeded, while still making it a lot of fun to watch.

Great movie. Now Best of the Best II on the other hand, that's a different matter. They leaned hard into the cheesiness of the martial arts genre with that one. I still enjoy it fairly well, but it's obviously a very different kind of movie.

It's a shame Phillip Rhee didn't go on to have a better career, but he literally has done nothing but Best of the Best sequels and two other movies since the original BOTB came out. Not sure if that is by choice or if he just wasn't offered roles.

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It's a shame Phillip Rhee didn't go on to have a better career, but he literally has done nothing but Best of the Best sequels and two other movies since the original BOTB came out. Not sure if that is by choice or if he just wasn't offered roles.


The way he explains it, he wasn't all that interested in pursuing a Hollywood career, and the studios actually came to him to do several Best of the Best sequels, which went on to make them money despite being really, really cheap.

Philip Rhee had the technique and skill-set to have been the Donnie Yen of the 1990s, but I guess he just didn't play the politics as well as guys like Jet Li and Jackie Chan, who had basically usurped all the Asian-fame in the West at the time.

But yeah, I actually really liked Philip Rhee. I felt he had (and still has) more charisma and cleaner technique than both Jackie Chan and Jet Li. Jet Li was fast, but I never felt like he fought with the kind of diversity and variety of moves that were on display in Rhee and Yen's movies.

Oh well.

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Your post actually brings up the question:

Is there any modern counterpart in the Western world to Phillip Rhee, Jet Li or Jackie Chan?

It would seem to me that the answer is no. That era of the "Asian master" seems to have come to a close.

Even Donnie Yen and Tony Jaa seem to be close to over, so who is left to replace them?

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Oh gosh, you're right.

I think the only somewhat okay replacement that hasn't quite reached his potential yet is Jin ZHang. But given his current career trajectory I doubt he'll go far.

Wu Jing was set to become the next Jackie Chan/Donnie Yen but his martial arts career was cut short due to breaking both his legs, and so I doubt he'll ever make another martial arts epic again on the line of Wolf Warrior 2 or SPL II.

Tiger Shroff also has a ton of potential but he's trapped in too much comedy-romance stuff, and most action martial artists will never take him seriously until he does a serious Hong Kong action flick. He looked good in Baaghi, but there was way too much silly stuff in that film to be considered a classic.

Oh, there's also Iko Uwais and Tiger Chen, but Chen's career seems to have careened wayward after The Man of Tai Chi, and outside of The Raid series poor 'ole Iko can't seem to catch much of a break.

I personally really like Joe Taslim but Hollywood has already typecast him as more of a supporting character rather than a leading man. He did look good in The Night Comes For Us, and obviously he was a real highlight in The Raid, but he's been misused in a lot of other Western fanfare and I doubt he'll ever recover.

So yeah, you're right... looks like the "Asian master" theme has truly come to an end unless/until a charismatic and skillfully martial artist with a mindset like Donnie Yen/Bruce Lee comes along again.

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Several of those names I confess I don't even know so they must not have made much of a splash in the West (at least not yet).

Iko I know because of The Raid. As you say, he doesn't seem to have capitalized very much on that success. Looking at his filmography I am reminded that he was in that Mark Wahlberg movie Mile 22. I don't remember him in that, but then again I don't remember that movie much at all except that it was pretty shitty.

Apparently he is going to be in the new Snake Eyes movie but I don't see him in the teaser or any of the other promo material so it must be a small role. Honestly I think one thing holding him back is that he just doesn't have the look. He has the skills for stardom, but not the right face. And you really need both to make it to the top.

Joe Taslim is cool and probably deserves more notoriety. He was in The Raid and he also has a large role in that Cinemax (now HBO) show Warrior, which is quite good. And he played Sub-Zero in Mortal Kombat, but sadly the movie was garbage. I have not seen The Night Comes for Us. He's almost 40 already, which is a little old to become a break-out star, but maybe he'll find even greater success in the future.

I really have no one to propose as the next Jackie Chan or Jet Li or Bruce Lee or Donnie Yen. All the guys I can think of are in their late-30s or older. Need some young blood.

One thing we know is that everything goes in cycles. Perhaps at some point we'll get another film like Crouching Tiger that sets off a new wave of interest in martial arts movies in the West and then we'll see a new wave of stars follow.

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I don't remember that movie much at all except that it was pretty shitty.


Yep, it was one of the crappiest action movies I've ever seen due to all the wasted potential.


Apparently he is going to be in the new Snake Eyes movie but I don't see him in the teaser or any of the other promo material so it must be a small role.


That movie is going to be all kinds of fail. Race-swapping Snake Eyes completely ruins the character because not focusing on his triumphs in a Japanese ninja clan as a white outsider literally makes no sense. And so I can only imagine that poor Iko will not only be wasted, but if it bombs (and it likely will) he will find it hard to get anymore work in the West.

He's almost 40 already, which is a little old to become a break-out star, but maybe he'll find even greater success in the future.


He looks good for his age, but yeah time is definitely running out for him. To be fair, though, most iconic action heroes didn't really hit their stride until 40+, so if he can avoid more flops like Mortal Kombat he might be okay, but I sort of doubt it.

One thing we know is that everything goes in cycles. Perhaps at some point we'll get another film like Crouching Tiger that sets off a new wave of interest in martial arts movies in the West and then we'll see a new wave of stars follow.


Yeah, or another Rumble In The Bronx. But given Hollywood's penchant to make all this woke non-sense, I don't see that happening anytime soon. I would suspect that we'll see Hong Kong produce a popular import before Hollywood makes something worthwhile.


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I think that when Peter Berg is firing on all cylinders he's great, so it was surprising to me that he turned about a movie as bad as Mile 22. I really like some of his previous efforts like Patriots Day and Friday Night Lights, and Lone Survivor and Deepwater Horizon were both good as well. So to see him make something like Mile 22, and then follow that up with a film like Spenser Confidential, is pretty disappointing.

Regarding Snake Eyes, I watched the cartoon when I was a kid but remember literally nothing about the characters or their back stories. But that does sound dumb. It's no doubt politically motivated.

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That's a great point about Peter Berg. I'm not sure what he was doing with Mile 22. The movie was just nonsensical on so many levels. I did like Deepwater Horizon and Lone Survivor, though. I have yet to get around to watching Patriots Day or Friday Night Lights, but I need to remember to check them out.

Regarding Snake Eyes, I watched the cartoon when I was a kid but remember literally nothing about the characters or their back stories. But that does sound dumb. It's no doubt politically motivated.


Yeah Snake Eyes' backstory was never a big part of the show, even though it made up a big part of who he was and why Storm Shadow hated him so much. Basically Storm Shadow hated that their master took a liking to a white outsider, and Snake Eyes had to work extra hard to overcome the discrimination of his Asian peers.

It's ironic because the creator of Snake Eyes is Japanese and the whole point of the character was to not judge someone by the tone of their skin but by their actions and to not discriminate based on race or nationality. Yet, as you mentioned, it's obvious the race-swapping was politically motivated because it makes zero sense now to have Storm Shadow act racist against and hate Snake Eyes if they're both Asian! LOL

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Patriots Day and Friday Night Lights I'd say are Berg's very best movies, so definitely check them out.

And it seems that we've seen the white outsider storyline done many times before. In fact, I was just watching a Chuck Norris movie the other day (The Octagon) that used that plot element. Enter the Ninja uses it as well.

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And it seems that we've seen the white outsider storyline done many times before. In fact, I was just watching a Chuck Norris movie the other day (The Octagon) that used that plot element. Enter the Ninja uses it as well.


Oh man, The Octagon, I used to watch that one a lot with my old man. One of Chuck's better movies definitely.

I don't really remember Enter The Ninja, but I may have to check it out again. Sho Kosugi is such an under-rated talent.

But yeah the white outsider is a common trope, the thing that makes it interesting in Snake Eyes' case is because it forced him to excel at becoming a ninja, but also led to his master being assassinated by Storm Shadow, who then placed the blame on Snake Eyes, leading to him being exiled from his clan and then joining G.I. Joe. So his race was what led to him becoming a G.I. Joe.

They'll have to rewrite his entire story from scratch now, which makes you question why even bother doing a movie about Snake Eyes if it's not even going to be about Snake Eyes but just some random Asian dude who does kung-fu?

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Best of the Best is the sole reason I like him.

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Yeah it was disappointing they got rid of him in Best of the Best 3.

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I pretend there's just the first one.

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I don't think you can accuse Eric Roberts of having produced too little work - he has 600+ credits! But it's unfortunate that most, nearly all(?) is dross and for me his name is actually a warning not to watch a particular movie.
But I have to admit this does sound interesting and maybe I'll remember to seek it out. Also, Mia Sara.

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I don't think you can accuse Eric Roberts of having produced too little work - he has 600+ credits! But it's unfortunate that most, nearly all(?) is dross and for me his name is actually a warning not to watch a particular movie.


Good point. I suppose I didn't explain properly that there are few good works done by Roberts among the 600+ projects that mostly amount to dross.

It takes a lot of picking through and sifting to find the decent stuff.

But I have to admit this does sound interesting and maybe I'll remember to seek it out. Also, Mia Sara.


Mia Sara is such an interesting actress, mostly because she's atypical of the archetype. Her face is quite memorable and I remember seeing her in some films and never really forgetting her face, but also never really hearing about her much in the tabloids.

Her performance in this actually led me to look up more about her career only to find that she quickly evaded the spotlight shortly after Time Cop, with her credits petering out and evaporating throughout the aughts.

From the little photos of her that are out there in recent times she's actually still quite fetching to be in her 50s. I guess a lot of that has to do with avoiding cosmetic surgery. It's amazing how beautiful some women look when they just take care of themselves and age naturally and gracefully. Then again, based on the little info available of her she seems to have found pastimes that make her happy and she actually seems to enjoy motherhood, a rarity among many women who once graced the red carpet under the bright lights of Hollywood.

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