MovieChat Forums > Back to the Future Part III (1990) Discussion > The Tombstone makes no sense

The Tombstone makes no sense

posted 3 years ago by avortac4 (3529)
13 replies | jump to latest

Ok, Doc's tombstone exists, because Doc dies, because Marty isn't there to save him. In this reality, the ravine is called 'Clayton Ravine', right? Why is that?

Think about it.

WHY do they call it the 'Clayton Ravine'? Because Clara died there.

If Clara died, _HOW_ can her name be there in Doc's tombstone?

A reality where Doc and Clara both die, shouldn't have Clara's name in the tombstone, because Doc wasn't at that location to see her to save her. Why would he go there alone, if Marty isn't involved? The whole reason why he's there, is to try to see if his train idea could work. He doesn't get this idea without Marty's involvement!

Is this movie trying to tell us that Doc - for SOME reason (?!) - just happened to go the same railroad bridge location at the same exact time as he does when Marty is involved, and saves Clara, but yet can't save himself from the bullet, so ..

Can anyone tell me how this makes sense?

[–] SpikeMike (470) 3 years ago

It was called Clayton Ravine in the original timeline. When Doc got sent back he then agreed to pick her up at the station, which prevented her death. If Marty had listened to Doc and not gone back to 1885 he would have found Clayton Ravine no longer called by it's original name as well.

[–] mcp7 (143) 3 years ago

Correct.

Original 1885 (without Doc and Marty): Clayton Ravine
1st altered 1885 (with Doc and without Marty): Shonash Ravine (most likely)
2nd altered 1885 (with Doc and Marty): Eastwood Ravine

[–] msegmx (435) 3 years ago

I guess that name on the tombstone qualifies as a plot hole.

[–] mcp7 (143) 3 years ago

No it doesn't. OP's premise is wrong, the ravine is not named Clayton Ravine in that timeline, Clara does not die there in the first altered 1885 with Doc.

[–] msegmx (435) 3 years ago

It's been a while since I've last watched the movie but doesn't Marty have a photo of the tombstone with Doc's and Clara's ("... beloved Clara") names on it and Doc asks "and who is this Clara?" (or similar)?

That doesn't make sense because Doc never would have met Clara if it weren't for Marty's arrival..(?)

[–] mcp7 (143) 3 years ago

No, Doc meets Clara at the train station in the first altered timeline without Marty there. They fall in love and Doc is killed by Tannen. 70 years pass, and Marty sees the tombstone in 1955.

Doc asks who is Clara because at that point he hadn't met her yet.

[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 3 years ago

No, in the timeline that has Doc but no Marty the ravine would not have been named “Clayton Ravine”, in fact we have no idea what it was called. But when Marty goes to 1885 he doesn’t know what the Ravine was called in the timeline that has Doc but no Marty, all he knows is what the ravine was called in the timeline that had neither Doc nor Marty and it was called “Clayton Ravine”

There are 3 1885 timelines, in the original it was the Clayton Ravine, in the 2nd (with Doc but no Marty) we have no idea what it was called, in the 3rd (with Doc and Marty) it was Eastwood Ravine.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7440) 2 years ago

Wait. There is the part where right after Doc saves her with Marty present, Marty says to Doc that he stopped the Ravine from being named the Clayton Ravine. If he remembers that, then it should mean Doc didn't save her when Marty wasn't with him in that timeline.

[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 2 years ago

Yes, in the timeline that had Doc but not Marty he picked her up at the train station and she did not crash into the ravine.

Original Timeline: She crashes into the ravine
Timeline with just Doc: She is picked up at the train station and never crashes into the ravine
Time with with Doc and Marty: She is not picked up at the train station, instead she’s about to crash into the ravine as she did in the original timeline but Doc saves her.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7440) 2 years ago

My point though was that Marty's memory of that Ravine being named after a teacher didn't change.

[–] mcp7 (143) 2 years ago

Time travelers retain the memories from the timelines they've experiencied, even if these have been erased. At the end of the first movie, Marty still remembers his "loser" family from the original timeline.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7440) 2 years ago

I guess that makes sense.

[–] hurricane (1920) 2 years ago

Yes, this is my belief.

In the original timeline, it's called Clayton Ravine. When Doc and Marty left the altered 1985, and went back to 1955 in their mind it was still called this.

Doc got zapped to 1885, Marty remains in 1955. Now, Doc originally saved Clara and fell in love. So, the ravine would be called something else. It's unclear as to what at this point. But as Marty didn't encounter the ravine at any point between Doc going to 1885 and he himself following Doc there, there was no way he'd realise it's name had changed. He just remembered it's original name, and had no reason to believe it's name was anything other than what he remembered.

After Marty went back to 1885, his presence there would change history. So when Doc saved Clara, and they set up the train scene, it would've been renamed Eastwood Ravine as the townsfolk would believe "Clint Eastwood" went over it with the train. (Maybe Doc told them this.)

Those are the only two modern names that Marty or Doc would've witnessed it being called.