Why Do You Think the Ratings Fell ? - The A-Team (1983) Discussion

[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

Dwight Schultz said the episode Bounty that had his wife in it was the LAST time that the A-Team was number 1. After that, I couldn't say because I haven't seen season 5 yet, but I do believe bringing in other people was a mistake. It was what I think helped bring down Homicide: Life on the Street in the 90s, and it only hurt them here too; the team is established, we know who they are, everybody has their own job in it, and they fit, so why screw with perfection? Apparently Stephen J. Cannell wanted to bring in one of the new actors because he liked him, but the fans did not respond well to him.

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[–] ringfire211 12 years ago

Why the ratings fell?

Because of folks like Hulk Hogan, Boy George, Rick James, Pat Sajak & Vanna White, etc. They started to bring in celebrities onto the show during S4 to try to "mix things up". The problem is if it ain't broke then don't fix it. All of a sudden the A-Team are friends with all these celebrities. What happened to just keeping a low profile and helping average folks as in seasons 1-3? The formula was perfect - there was no need to mess with it. But I guess they felt it got too repetitive. Still, there was no reason to bring in celebrities to shake things up. It's too tacky. Even by A-TEAM standards.

Then with S5 it all just went down the toilet. They decided to reinvent the show's premise completely. The A-Team being sent on covert CIA missions? Eh, I don't think so. This isn't AIRWOLF.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

I like most of Season 5 a lot. And Season 4 had some all time classics as well. I would imagine people got tired of seeing the same thing every week. No one ever getting hurt, etc. It was a Top 10 show for the first 3 Seasons and was still in the Top 30 in Season 4, and even at Number 56, I think or so, in Season 5. Which isn't that bad, I don't think. Law & Order didn't make the Top 25, or so until it's like 7th Season or later, and that ran for 20 years. That should have been cancelled immediately. NBC never liked the A-team and was just looking for a reason to cancel it. And the ratings dropping slightly was the perfect excuse. I think they should at the very least given the A-team a proper send off. I think they gave The A-team the short end of the stick by not giving them a series finale and axing it in the middle of Season 5. Season 5 should have AT LEAST gotten a full slate of episodes.

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[–] mistermycroft 12 years ago

Novastar, the ratings actually began to fall in Season 4, before they added Frankie and Stockwell. My guess is that by early 1986, the novelty of the show had simply worn off.

Also, from what I recall, they moved it to Friday nights for Season 5, which was the kiss of death.

As for #56 in the ratings not being bad, back in the 1980s, they cancelled shows quickly for a drop like that. "Amazing Stories" was something like #44, and they cancelled it in 1987 after 2 seasons. And when "Little House on the Prairie" fell out of the Top 20, to #29, during its ninth year (1982-1983), NBC gave it the axe.

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[–] TMC-4 (19574) 10 months ago

When Did The A-Team Jump the Shark?

https://popculturereferences.com/when-did-the-a-team-jump-the-shark/

WHEN DID IT JUMP THE SHARK Some might say Day 1, but I say it was Season 4’s “Body Slam,” where Hulk Hogan guest-starred, coinciding with a string of high profile, cheesy guest star episodes (the Boy George one was actually pretty good). If not Season 4, then the revamp in Season 5 (where they go to work for a mysterious dude played by Robert Vaughan) would probably be the point.

https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125335/http://www.jumptheshark.com/a/ateam.htm

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/TheATeam

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

Very few shows stay at the top for a long time. Whilst I love "The A-Team" dearly, I can see a decline in quality over time. I actually enjoy season four, but then I'm a fan! Other people are less inclined to be forgiving. Big name guest stars are rarely a good idea, plots were becoming repetitive, and tensions between certain cast members were starting to become an issue.

Then there's season five. I can't stand Frankie, and I'm not alone! He's a real Mary Sue character, much as I hate that label. He's brought in from nowhere, just an ordinary member of the public, and we're supposed to accept him as a member of this awesome, war-hardened special forces team. He does the flirting with girls, giving Face less to do. He does the miniaturised electronics, giving BA less to do. He even makes plans sometimes, displacing the legendary leader of the team! Give me a break.

Rumours abound that Frankie was going to turn out to be a plant, secretly working for Stockwell, and that the team were going to break away from the compound, leaving Frankie behind, and choose to go on the run again. We'll probably never know for sure, as the show got axed instead! But that could have been interesting. That could have been the shot in the arm that the show needed to reverse its fortunes again. Maybe.

In the end, the simple truth is that tastes were changing, I guess.

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[–] uruseiranma 12 years ago

I tried to watch some of seasons 4 and 5, but it got to me after awhile.

I equated the film to a grown-up game of cops and robbers, just based on all the gunfire that went off and noone getting hurt.

Also, it got a bit formulaic after awhile. Though the ending to season 1 I felt was one episode where they strayed a bit from the formula, as well as the one where their enemies band together to take them down during a training routine in a secluded township.

Robot Chicken did a pretty funny parody regarding how formulaic the show got. For example: if they chose to help a girl with a problem, she was always hot.

"Thanks, guys." "So long, partner."

- Toy Story 3 (9/10)

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[–] mistermycroft 12 years ago

When you think about it, 95% of the episodes were the same thing:

1) A little guy gets pushed around by a larger rival/competitor who wants him to sell his business; OR

2) Someone is kidnapped and held hostage in South America, Asia, or some island, and the A-Team must rescue them (that must have been done at least 10 times);

By Season 4, they ran out of ideas !

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

Agreed. But, I was always entertained. But, realistically, how many restaurants can mobsters want to own???

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

All of them during Prohibition. That's how the Mafia got so big! Maybe they developed a food and drink fetish in the twenties, and never grew out of it.

On a more serious note, I never tired of the formula either. As it turned out, I hated season five, but had it been more of the same, I'd probably have been very happy indeed.

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

I was happy enough with Season 5. They should have finished the season instead of being cut short at 13 episodes.

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[–] errol1909 12 years ago

In a nut shell the reason the ratings fell of The A-Team during Season 4, is because the writers or producers took the show in a whole direction. Gone was the same, simple but yet entertaining formula were the team helped the little guy against a bunch of red necks and then in the climax of the each episode built a huge military style weapon to defeat the bad guys. That was almost gone by Season 4 and audiences quit watching the show because most episodes now focused on one of the team members, instead of the whole team. You know the old saying, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it". That was exactly why the ratings of the show fell. When it comes to television, audiences want to see the same story over and over again. I can guarantee it if the show stuck with the same formula, The A-Team Season 4, would've done very well in ratings. To prove my point I saw on wikipeida, that the first couple episodes did well in ratings in Season 4, it was around episodes 4 or 5 when the ratings started to fall. The reason? Because audiences like me were confused on where did The A-Team go. There are also a few episodes that I watch where I feel I'm watching Season 5. Especially episodes like The A-Team is Coming and Where is the Monster When You Need Him? Season 4 and 5 of The A-Team is a very different show, from Seasons 1-3. The mentality of producers scares me. If those idiots went back to the same formula of the show from Seasons 1-3 in Season 5, the show could've last a whole season. Instead they did 360 degree turn and changed the show completely into a 80's version of Mission:Impossible and therefore that is why the show was canned in mid-season. A side note: for all you out there who plan on working on creating television shows someday don't ever ever change the format if it's successful. Keep with the same formula because destroying something good for the hell of it, just the sake to change a few things will always kill a television show. Sadly, that is what killed The A-Team.

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

You could just as easily argue that people stopped watching because they were bored of the formula. With no audience research data to refer to, it's difficult to know. Some viewers like the same thing year after year. Others like more variety.

Sadly though, a lot of the changes that happened came about because of the actors. George Peppard and Mr T causing trouble on set meant that it was too difficult to continue as before. Not all changes are imposed from above.

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

Agreed, Ten.

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[–] mistermycroft 12 years ago

I would argue that after 3 years, the show became SO repetitive that they had to do some things different in Season 4. There is no way that they could've done Season 4 the same way as the first three years-- every conceivable plot had been exhausted !

So in Season 4 they had more humorous episodes, and guest stars galore (Isaac Hayes, Little Richard, Boy George, Pat Sajak, etc)

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

Change can be a good thing, certainly. It's difficult to get right with a popular show, though. No change and you might lose your audience - make the wrong change and you might lose your audience! To be brutally honest, I'm not sure that there's a lot they could have done with "The A-Team" in the long term. It wasn't ever going to last the way that some of its contemporaries did (although, again being brutally honest, I'm not sure that it was a good idea to let "Magnum", "MacGyver" or "Simon & Simon" go on quite so long). In the event they opted for big changes, and although I know that season five has some fans here, the vast majority of viewers didn't like it. Would it have worked keeping Tia Carrere instead of Frankie? Maybe, although it's doubtful that George Peppard would have approved. Was it specifically the changes that viewers hated, or was it just the dire writing in season five? Or both? Had the show just run its natural course? That sort of cartoon action hasn't really been seen since, and TV did seem to be leaning towards realism from the late eighties onwards.

I don't mean it as a criticism, but it's quite possible that the show could only ever have run for a few years. There's no shame in doing something really well for a short time and then stopping. There's more than a few TV shows that have dragged on well past their prime, and that's nothing to aspire to!

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[–] ringfire211 12 years ago

Certain shows (like SIMON & SIMON) were never even that good to begin with. So I have no clue why it was kept on the air for 8 seasons. The earlier seasons were fine (especially when Tim Reid joined the show as 'Downtown Brown') but the show just became repetitive after a while. And certainly after Tim Reid left there was no point in beating that dead horse. The show should have ended right there and then. The show was basically just a poor imitation of THE ROCKFORD FILES without any of the appeal or wit of that show. And how can you seriously compete with James Garner? C'mon!

At least MAGNUM, P.I. had the Hawaiian scenery and Tom Selleck and Hillerman as Higgins! Oh and the Ferrari and that theme song! But even that show probably lasted longer than it should have.

MacGYVER - now there's a fantastic show!! But even that one lost many viewers in the later seasons. Mostly because Mac would tackle social issue topics - like gangs, drugs, bullying, alcohol. And he'd be making public awareness announcements at the end of episodes. C'mon! Who wants to see that? We want to see MacGyver fight spies and other baddies. With the help of some duct tape and chewing gum! Not getting teenagers out of gangs or into rehab. Sheesh.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] dabooneman81 12 years ago

Ahhhh Ring thats a low blow..lol. I like Simon & Simon.lol..I Love Magnum too..Altho..I have to say Simon had the better stories and plots than Magnum..But i do agree that after Tim Reid left it wasnt the same. and Macgyver is sorta an A-team clone

As to why the series fell.I asked myself that too..I think around late 84/85ish into 86...Sitcoms came dominating again like in the 70's...Cosby,Cheers,Family ties,Night Court all NBC shows that were now the Big top ten shows on the network.And The A-team which was the show that actually pulled Nbc back into the top 10 in 83.Cause of Cbs/Abc dominance.Was no longer an asset. And action shows were now all gettin expendable..Because sitcoms came back wit a passion.Also people were starting to get their dose of action at the movies.With stallone and schwarzeneggar..Violent films.Even nighttime soaps were fallin too. But having celebs on the series was a good thing. I think season four in some ways is better than season three. I wished Tia Carrere could have joined or they couldve hired another ameri-asian for the part.The stockwell years were okay but not the way to go.Writers and producers take chances...Some work some don't.And I also always felt that the A-team came out too late..Jan of 83...Had it came out say.Jan 80..81.Wouldve been an even bigger show than it ultimately became.I love the Dukes but it got seven seasons.While A-team got five and Knight Rider four.Not fair..Lol. Hell Hardcastle & McCormick,Riptide and Greatest American Hero got three..Timing is everything i guess.

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[–] ringfire211 12 years ago

Ahhhh Ring thats a low blow..lol. I like Simon & Simon.lol

Hey, I used to watch SIMON & SIMON too. But it was never a "must see" show for me. But rather a diversion when nothing better was on. I remember it used to come on after HAWAII FIVE-0 back in the late 90s in reruns. FIVE-0 was a "must see" show for me. It had a sense of urgency plus a hard-edged Jack Lord in the lead. SIMON & SIMON was light fluff in comparison. Some episodes were better than others but on the whole it was all a bit on the meh side. Actually MAGNUM, P.I. is kinda similar in that respect. The stories are fairly average. But I guess I prefer it because I love Hawaii and I love the place where Magnum stays. What I wouldn't give to have a pad like that. And a Ferrari like that.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

I really like "Simon & Simon", but I do think that it went on for too long. I can give or take the later stuff. Seasons two to four, and some of one and five, are great though, I think. Oddly enough, it's "Hawaii 5-0" that always been a bit ho hum for me. "Magnum" was great some weeks, others not at all.

The other one that I really loved as a kid was "The Fall Guy", but when I tried watching it again recently, I found it rather dull. Every episode seemed exactly the same! It still ran for five years, though.

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http://www.46664.com/

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[–] ShadowAngelx 12 years ago

I think, bringing in all the celebrities in Season 4 was a huge mistake. I mean i can understand a tie-in with Hulk Hogan seeing as the WWF was extremely popular and at the time, Mr. T appeared in the WWF. But everything else just destroyed the episodes and i doubt anybody said "Whoa, Rick James is on the A-Team, got to watch this".
Speaking of this, that episode with Rick James (Heart of Rock and Roll) came early in the Season and was a extremely bad episode. Same for that episode with Boy George, not only was that guy stoned out of his mind (and a hard to watch horrible actor) but they also had to cut down the story and the A-team so they could squeeze in 2 Culture Club songs and who watches the A-Team to hear two songs?
(Plus some of those guest stars only worked for the US Market and they completely ignored the rest of the world. Meaning that it's annoying to see someone celebrated you have no clue about. Best example from the Show: William Perry. I always wondered who the *beep* that guy is. Turns out he's some kind of American Football Player, completely unknown outside of the USA. Great!)

The ratings dropped (and i don't wanna know how much money they wasted on those celebrities), the executives went into panic mode and made the same mistake that was done with Airwolf and Knight Rider: Bringing in new guys, changing the formula, changing everything. It never works. You can't just change the whole show. Especially not if it's so badly done as with the A-Team. Sure the season opener was good but after that, the episodes were so bad it's nearly unwatchable (with The Crystal Skull being the worst episode of the show in my oppinion)

But i also think that the A-Team would've died either way. Another season with the same plot over and over again wouldn't have been good. Beside, they already helped everyone: Basically all "company" stories were done, the "innocent in jail" story was done, they helped family members, they helped on of their old military antagonists, so what was there left?

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

William Perry was known outside America. He was certainly well known amongst my age group at the time in the UK. The Chicago Bears, the team that he played for, were really successful then, and he and a few of his team mates used to be featured in kids' magazines. I think there was an attempt to get UK TV channels to show American football more, although that didn't seem to work. Either way, Perry (he was always referred to as the Refrigerator) did a lot of publicity, and a lot of appearances in films, etc. I guess because he was so big.

As far as "Airwolf" is concerned though, that was a different story. Jan Michael Vincent had major drink and drugs problems, and they'd regretted ever hiring him. The talent he'd shown in season one had vanished, and the meddling of the producers had got in the way as well. Consequently, whereas there'd been a terrific season one, season two hadn't been half as good, and season three was watered down nonsense, with a star who barely knew what he was doing anymore. Season four, with a new creative team, etc, was a last ditch attempt to do something with the idea. Can't blame them for trying really. It's laugh out loud funny, too. Dick van Dyke as a mad, killer robot has to be seen to be believed! I'm rather glad they made it, even if the rest of the world hates the show. ;)

So yes, some changes are unavoidable. Others are a mistake. I like the Boy George episode of "The A-Team", although I can see why it wouldn't appeal to everybody. Throwing in something fun like that every so often shouldn't hurt a healthy show. Like the musical episode of "Buffy", for example; or in "Remington Steele", where they cast Pierce Brosnan's wife Cassandra as Steele's former girlfriend. In-jokes, or toying with the format, can work very well. I think the trick is to be careful, and make sure that you're doing it right. Face's Cylon joke is in a similar vein. Some people hate it, but I think most enjoy it. TV was moving more and more towards 'realism' though, by the mid to late eighties. That really was not in the team's favour. I think that was more of a death knell than any gimmicky moves, and the producers knew it. Hence the gimmicky moves. Symptoms of a slide that had already begun, rather than the cause of the slide itself?

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http://www.46664.com/

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

I also like the guest stars on the A-Team. Rick James, Isaac Hayes, Hulk Hogan, Boy George. They were all entertaining.

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[–] ringfire211 12 years ago

It's laugh out loud funny, too. Dick van Dyke as a mad, killer robot has to be seen to be believed!

Oh man!! I remember it like it was yesterday. I was actually watching DIAGNOSIS MURDER around that time (this was in 1997) so it was hilarious seeing the good Dr. Sloan play this mad doctor/robot. I guess they cast Dick because his son Barry was the star of the show.

Here is the episode BTW: http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi3629056025/

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] ShadowAngelx 12 years ago

William Perry was known outside America. He was certainly well known amongst my age group at the time in the UK

UK was always strongly influenced by the USA, they were following them. But you do know that Europe has more countries than just those in the UK? I'm from Germany, American Football isn't popular. The German Football League runs behind dozens of others ports (Football, Ice Hockey, Handball, Basketball, Volleyball) and the NFL Europe was a huge failure. Sames goes for most other european countries.

As far as "Airwolf" is concerned though, that was a different story. Jan Michael Vincent had major drink and drugs problems

So what? A lot of actors are major drug addicts and alcoholics that need to be kept under control. George Peppard was a major alcoholic and a not very nice person on top of it yet somehow they managed to keep him under control for 5 seasons. I bet the same could've been possible with JM Vincent.

There's one thing i always wanted to see on the show: The A-Team fails completely.
They mention it or show it in several episodes (Like Deadly Maneuvers or Bad Day at Black Rock were BA got shot by Face and they apparently *beep* their mission up completely)
One or two episodes with them just failing could've sparked more interest, it would've made them more human and the viewers maybe could say "hey, they aren't perfect, they aren't lucky all the time i can relate to that" instead of them always going out on top.

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

interesting point, Shadow. I've never thought of them failing.

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

UK was always strongly influenced by the USA, they were following them. But you do know that Europe has more countries than just those in the UK? I'm from Germany, American Football isn't popular.

No, it's not popular in the UK either. And yes, I do know that there's more to Europe than just the UK! But your comment was that William Perry wasn't known outside the USA. I was just pointing out that he was. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that. American Football didn't have to be popular. I think they were trying to make it popular, so the big stars of the game were doing a lot of publicity abroad. Consequently a lot of people knew who they were when those episodes aired. The game never took off over here though. A few years later, probably nobody would have known them anymore. I guess it was a happy accident of timing.

So what? A lot of actors are major drug addicts and alcoholics that need to be kept under control. George Peppard was a major alcoholic and a not very nice person on top of it yet somehow they managed to keep him under control for 5 seasons. I bet the same could've been possible with JM Vincent.

Sadly no, that just wasn't possible. He was completely self-destructive, and short of locking him up between scenes, there was nothing anybody could have done. George Peppard acknowledged his problems, and was a professional. He may not have been very nice to be around a lot of the time, but he knew his job, and made sure to get it done. Jan Michael Vincent just didn't care. He was a liability. The segments in Ernest Borgnine's autobiography about the making of the show are interesting. He was a straight-talking guy, and he's quite clear on his opinion there. It was all a shame, as Vincent had talent. He just didn't seem to care about it.

There's one thing i always wanted to see on the show: The A-Team fails completely.

An interesting scenario, certainly. That's for the realms of fanfic though. The one thing that the writers would never have considered is failure, and I doubt that the cast would have agreed to it if they had. The Team were heroes, and the show was made in the old style, where the white hats always win. It's one of the things that makes the show so popular still. No shades of grey, no compromises. You always know that you're going to see the bad guys defeated. There were failures along the way though. Every time the team got captured it was a defeat of a sort. Just one that didn't last for very long!

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[–] ringfire211 12 years ago

the same mistake that was done with Airwolf and Knight Rider

Yes, as tenement-funster explained, Jan-Michael Vincent's alcoholism killed AIRWOLF. The guy barely stood on his feet during that final season from what I hear. Resurrecting that show on cable was a mistake - with a whole new cast headed by Barry Van Dyke and reusing old footage of the original AIRWOLF episodes.

As for KNIGHT RIDER it never had the issue of bringing in new characters or changing up the show drastically. I thought it was good until the end. Sure maybe the final season wasn't as great as the first 3 (it got a bit repetitive in spots) but it was still strong. Hey, it's not like Michael went to work for some covert CIA outfit like the A-Team did. He still worked for F.L.A.G. and Devon was still the one in charge and Bonnie was still KITT's mechanic. The only new character was "RC3" (who I liked by the way). He drove the semi and had a bike he rode sometimes. He was a sidekick who was nice to have around. But he never got in the way. The focus was still on Michael and KITT. And I liked the fact that KITT got outfitted with the Super Pursuit Mode. But if you recall each season had KITT getting destroyed and outfitted with some new gadget. So the Super Pursuit Mode was in line with what came before. Bottom line - the formula was never changed and that's why the show was successful to the end. At least for the fans. But the ratings were bound to drop by the 4th season one way or another.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

Barry Van Dyke was in an A-Team two parter, incidentally.

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[–] tenement-funster 12 years ago

Yes, "The Bend In The River", a favourite of mine. I like Barry van Dyke - it's a shame he's got himself tangled up with some legendary failures. If you watch him in Galactica 80 (one of the most mocked TV shows I can think of!), he seems perfectly well aware of how bad it is, which makes me smile whenever I see bits.

Years later, in Diagnosis: Murder, BvD's character Steve made a few jokes about Airwolf - so clearly he has a sense of humour about that, at any rate! It was an episode guest-starring Stephen J Cannell as a TV producer, as it happens.

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

I didn't know there were two Airwolfs???!! One with Ernest Borgnine and one with Barry Van Dyke. Huh. Amazing.

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[–] landry_john 12 years ago

Actually,both Knight Rider & The Dukes Of Hazzard had run their course by their respective final seasons.It was hard to keep the writing fresh anymore when the show centered around adventures in their beloved automobiles and viewing habits were gradually beginning to change by the mid-to-late 80's as it was.

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[–] ringfire211 12 years ago

(Isaac Hayes, Little Richard, Boy George, Pat Sajak, etc)

Little Richard was definitely never on the show. Maybe you meant Rick James.

Connery, Moore, and Brosnan! Accept NO substitutes!

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

All good points. You can only do the same stories so many times. I think Season 4 is great. Season 5 had some good episodes, but was overall the weakest season.

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[–] d_henderson1810 10 years ago

I don't agree that it was always repetitive. There were episodes which strayed from the formula.

My favourite episode, "Deadly Manouvers", was good because, instead of helping the little man, it was the A-Team who needed the help from past enemies who kidnapped them. This did not involve helping out a town or community against some bullies.

Others included "Curtain Call" (where Murdock was shot), the one where B.A. and Murdock are fugitives from the law, and handcuffed together (which lead to numerous comic possibilities) and even when Murdock is kidnapped so as to trap the rest of the A-Team when they came to rescue him.

What about the first three episodes of season 5, where we get more detail on why the A-Team are wanted, they are captured and face trial.

Every so often, they did a "different" episode, and sometimes, those are my favourites, but not every episode followed the same formula.

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[–] novastar_6 10 years ago

And even times where they DID follow the formula, some episodes were just OFF compared to the rest: Hot Styles and Champ being a couple that come to mind.

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[–] cjh8504 10 years ago

When they are on trial the first 3 episodes of Season 5, that's stellar stuff right there.

2014: Ultimate Warrior and Jake "The Snake" Roberts FINALLY get inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

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[–] errol1909 12 years ago

Audiences want to see the same thing over and over again. Look at NCIS and CSI. Same old formula storylines. They find a dead body, do an autopsy, and go and get the killer. Seeing the same storyline is what makes audiences feel part of the characters. The A-Team's change is what did the show in. Dukes and Hazard was a perfect example of a tv show with the same damn plot and that show lasted 6 or 7 seasons. The A-Team could've lasted as long, but the producers and writers changed the show and THAT IS WHY AUDIENCES QUIT WATCHING! SIMPLE AS THAT! If you watch Season 3 of the show, it's just like Season 1 and 2, and yet the show was a smash in ratings because that is what audiences wanted. You don't need to be a genius to figure out why the ratings of The A-Team fell during Season 4. Audiences don't get bored of a formula if it's fun and entertaining. Remember that tenement. If you change the formula then audiences start to get bored. Dukes of Hazard, NCIS, CSI, are perfect examples that prove my point. Especially the former.

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

People can get bored with the same old stuff as well, though, Errol.

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[–] cyberdynesystems101 12 years ago

If you see the same thing over and over, it gets boring fast. You have to have some sort of variation on things to make it stick with people. The problem I had with the last season though is that it seemed to move and changed the format of things too quickly and when I finally got use to it, the series was over.

I an't afraid of no ghosts!

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

I enjoy the 5th Season immensely. I wish it would have gotten a full season, and even another one or two.

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[–] mistermycroft 12 years ago

Someone mentioned above that Dukes of Hazzard lasted 7 years, which is true.

However, it only had strong ratings during the first 4 years. The last 3 years (1982-1985), the ratings fell dramatically, but for some reason CBS kept it on the air. Maybe they had nothing else to put on !

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[–] cjh8504 12 years ago

Probably. That's why NBC kept Cheers on, and good thing they did.

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[–] externaltestaccount 12 years ago

Ha, reading this thread I was going to mention NCIS. The show that deliberately never changed anything. AFAIK When Bellisario wanted to make some changes around season 5(I think) Harmon vetoed it and effectively ousted the shows creator from having any input. NCIS then became "america's no.1 tv show" after that. But for me it's becoming a little bit tired.

The A-Team I think had another thing against it. The Audience was predominantly young. As they aged they grew out of the A-Team and a new generation did not want to watch it.

Regarding the tastes of TV audiences, I also have to agree - tastes were changing then. The A-team came a little late to the party. Living in the UK I also witnessed a change in the tastes of TV around the mid to late 80's (following USA again?). Action shows were making way to more realistic dramas/soaps. If you look at the shows running in 85/86 to shows running in 87/88 a massive difference in attitude by TV execs in only 2 years on both sides of the Atlantic.

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[–] dgctex 8 years ago

I agree with you the same thing happened with The Dukes of Hazzard and CHiPS. Only with those shows it was main character changes,but the producers were smart enough to realize that and when the original actors were brought back the ratings came back up

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[–] cjh8504 8 years ago

Not much. They were soon cancelled too. Nothing lasts forever.

RIP Tony Burton. RIP George Kennedy. RIP Doris Roberts. You were wonderful in ELR.

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[–] mistermycroft 8 years ago

I wonder if the show would have survived a little longer had it not been moved to Friday nights, which is the black hole for TV shows. Only thing worse is Saturday nights, where shows go to die.

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[–] cjh8504 8 years ago

I wish it got a full 5th season anyway.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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[–] RParmly-3 11 years ago

IMO, shows can't just keep doing the same thing over and over, but change is always delicate. You need to keep the elements that are at the heart of the show while at the same time making sure the new elements you introduce are actually improvements, taking the show in an interesting direction, etc, not making it worse.

... and the problem is there's never gonna be a universally agreed upon definition for what is or isn't an improvement. As you're seeing with this argument here. I'm one of the people who thinks it got worse, though never unwatchable, but that's just me. And some, but certainly not all of you.

Basically, it's a crap shoot. Maybe the audience'll like it and maybe it won't. Some writers are definitely more in touch with what the audience likes than others, but you'll never know for sure until you do it.

Nazis. I hate these guys.

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[–] cjh8504 11 years ago

I liked Season 5, okay. I certainly liked the beefed up theme song. Law & Order was on for 20 years and that was the same thing over and over again. SVU is in it's 15th Season now, and that's the same thing over and over again. I think NBC should've given The A-Team one more season to figure things out, then if it didn't work, pull the plug.

RIP Jean Stapleton. Heaven just got a Dingbat.

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[–] novastar_6 11 years ago

They should have, but I still have to wonder, WHAT would they have done with another season? By 4 things were getting weird, what would they have done if they got a whole 5th season without Stockwell and Frankie?

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[–] tenement-funster 11 years ago

They could have kept Stockwell, but not had Frankie. He was a mistake. At the very least, he could have been written better. Instead he steals everybody's thunder. We see him handling the miniaturised electronics instead of BA, making plans instead of Hannibal, getting in the quick quips instead of Murdock, and getting the girls instead of Face. He should have been given his own thing, and then stuck to it. Probably best not to have introduced him at all. Amy wasn't allowed because she didn't have combat history with the gang. Neither did he.

But Stockwell had potential, especially the rumoured plot that he was a bad guy, who was going to be using the team for his own ends, and that they would have to find some way of fighting back. It could have allowed the show to go in some very interesting directions. But they messed up. They tried to change it but keep it the same too, which just led to treading water and fans getting irritated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.46664.com/

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[–] novastar_6 11 years ago

So what you're saying is basically, Frankie in the series is Face in the movie.

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[–] tenement-funster 11 years ago

No. Face in the movie was very well judged. He didn't take the shine off anybody, and he also fitted well into the team, and had every reason to be there. Probably the complete opposite of Frankie.

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http://www.46664.com/

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[–] novastar_6 11 years ago

That would depend on who you ask. Dirk Benedict is very biased because not only is it his character they redid, but he never saw the movie. Dwight on the other hand did see it and said it's a good movie, BUT the problem is they took all the traits that made the other members the individuals that made the formula work, and gave it all to Face.

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[–] RParmly-3 11 years ago

How does he figure that?

Yeah, he took over from Hannibal in re The Plan at the end - like I've said on the movie board that didn't bother me as much as other people, but I can see why it would. But he never took over the Crazy Hilarious job from Murdock or the Genius Bruiser job from BA.

Nazis. I hate these guys.

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[–] tenement-funster 11 years ago

Precisely. And he didn't take over the planning from Hannibal either. Hannibal made every other plan. Face just had one idea at the end, and specifically stated that he was no Hannibal. And his plan didn't entirely work anyway. All through the film they stated that Hannibal plans and Face improvises (and then Hannibal (or somebody else!) has to rescue him). And that's precisely what happened. Face made a plan, but it went crazy wrong, he had to improvise, and BA had to rescue him. Face is no Hannibal!

I can see that Dwight might be a bit offended by how the movie was mostly Hannibal's and Face's story. They had more screentime. I thought movie Murdock was great though, and that the character was in good hands. Actually, I surprised myself by loving the whole movie. Still sorry we didn't get a sequel!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.46664.com/

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[–] cjh8504 11 years ago

We could still get a sequel. I'd love to see it.

RIP Jean Stapleton. Heaven just got a Dingbat.

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[–] RParmly-3 11 years ago

Hannibal made every other plan. Face just had one idea at the end, and specifically stated that he was no Hannibal.

Yep. That's why it didn't bother me.

I can see that Dwight might be a bit offended by how the movie was mostly Hannibal's and Face's story. They had more screentime. I thought movie Murdock was great though, and that the character was in good hands. Actually, I surprised myself by loving the whole movie. Still sorry we didn't get a sequel!

I don't think the other two got short-changed. BA had that entire thing where he got religion in prison and eventually grew out of it. That's character development. Murdock? Maybe nothing like that, but he was definitely the most quotable person on the movie.

And yeah, I too was sorry we didn't get a sequel. (Can't believe G. I. Joe got one but this didn't). It deserved several movies.

Nazis. I hate these guys.

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[–] novastar_6 11 years ago

I don't think the other two got short-changed. BA had that entire thing where he got religion in prison and eventually grew out of it.

Which as other people have pointed out, has WHAT to do with B.A.'s character? What was that supposed to be? Where was that supposed to have come from? There wasn't anything gained by it, it served no purpose.

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[–] cjh8504 11 years ago

I wish there was a sequel. I'd go see it.

RIP Jean Stapleton. Heaven just got a Dingbat.

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[–] MrBlondNYC 10 years ago

Sitcoms were dead in 1983 when The A-Team started. But after The Cosby Show, family sitcoms became very popular again. So ABC counter-programmed by putting Who's the Boss? and Growing Pains against The A-Team. The sitcoms became big hits and the ratings for A-Team dropped. When they moved it to Friday night, it was over.

Personally, I did stop watching The A-Team on Tuesday nights and watched Who's the Boss? and Growing Pains instead. Because they would rerun the A-Team on Saturday afternoons so that way I could watch all three shows. (I was 7 or 8 then, OK?)

George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.

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[–] cjh8504 10 years ago

Who's the Boss? and Growing Pins were damn entertaining in their day.

RIP Harold Ramis. You will always be Egon.

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[–] SydneyIz 10 years ago

I LOVED the A-Team, it was one of my favorite all time, no question, even with all of the complicated scenarios/plots and reality pushing anti-heroes of TV today. Alot of people, like to use the word mindless, in a sense they are right, but some of the plots are actually engaging (unlike most reality shows - cue to Kardashians or those awful Vh1 shows), because of the heroes are "ACTUALLY" likeable (have some kind screen presence- I hate that about most shows nowadays), while some of the villains and supporting chew up the scenery. The thing about the screen presence was key, instead of having one character with great screen presence...you had four, sometimes five with Amy (Melinda Culea) and an occassional guest stars or villains. On most shows nowadays, both for kids or adults, it's hard to find a handful of likeable characters who can carry show, but I guess the pseudo-cinema verite movement took over and people wanted more reality. Ironic isn't it.

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[–] SydneyIz 10 years ago

The ratings went down, because consumers taste change. I actually feel like Dirk Benedict on the new film, and it doesn't work in this era...mainly for the reasons that the A-Team had strong connections and leanings towards the Vietnam War ... the fugitive veterans angle was perfect. Adding in the Robin Hood trope made it gold. It's a different audience, which is another reason why the show in its own time period declined. It happens to every show.

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[–] cjh8504 10 years ago

Barely 5 Seasons though is lame. I wish it would have lasted 5 full seasons at least, Or 6. The A-Team didn't even make 100 episodes.

RIP Harold Ramis. You will always be Egon.

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[–] spacemanspiff00 10 years ago

The reason shows like MAcGyver, Magnum PI and Simon and Simon were able to last longer was while each episode was them taking a case or assignment, they didn't have the same exact structure to them. Each episode was a different case with a different set of circumstances. With the A-Team every week was them taking job, looking like they had won only to get caught and tied up or locked in a barn or shed alone were they were able to make some kind of over the top weapon to beat the bad guy. MacGyver had him making gadgets, but they were hardly ever over the top or cartoonish. This show almost never deviated from that. If it had just been a job of the week without the formula then I think it doesn't have the drop off it did. If they didn't make such a drastic change in season 5 i think the show would have been able to at lest get a complete season and not canceled after 13. Also i think audience members got tired of seeing hundreds of bullets being fired each episode and never one hitting anything other then a building or the ground.

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[–] cjh8504 10 years ago

Agreed. Though, it should've gotten a full 5th Season.

RIP Ultimate Warrior. You will be missed.

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[–] Wokie 10 years ago

Like MrBlondNYC wrote, ratings fell because ABC had put Who's the Boss and Growing Pains on Tuesday 8pm, before that The A-Team's competition was Happy Days on ABC and The Mississippi on CBS which were both low rated, next season (84-85) ABC had Who's the Boss on Tuesday 8:30pm which affected their ratings, 21.9 HH compared to 24.0 in 83-84 TV season.

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[–] cjh8504 10 years ago

21.9 were the ratings for what what year?

RIP Ultimate Warrior. You will be missed.

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[–] Wokie 10 years ago

1983 - 20.1 rating and 30 share 10th place
1983-84 - 24.0/35 4th
1984-85 - 21.9/33 6th
1985-86 - 16.9/26 30th
1986-87 - 12.8/21 61st

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[–] cjh8504 10 years ago

You know, I don't think 61st place is all that bad. Law & Order SVU, was in the 40's, and 50's and maybe even 60's for like the last 6 or 7 years, and that's entering it's 15th season for crying out loud. I think the A-team deserved another season or two, or at least a full 5th. It didn't even make the coveted for syndication 100 episodes.

RIP Ultimate Warrior. You will be missed.

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[–] shadowangel-599-184270 10 years ago

There's a difference between a Show being today in 50th Place and a Show in the 80's in 50th Place. Back then there weren't as many TV stations as today, not as many shows on the Air.
50th from 100 is simply worse than being 50th from 300.
Besides, i'm sure the A-Team was more expensive to produce than Law & Order.

And Season 5 was just *beep* nobody should be surprised why it was canceled halfway through.

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[–] cjh8504 10 years ago

I guess.

Robin Williams RIP. Most recent movies seen: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 8/10 stars. Expendables 3

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[–] spacemanspiff00 9 years ago

"i'm sure the A-Team was more expensive to produce than Law & Order."

I am going to say that is not true. Mariska Hargitay alone makes $400,000 per episode.

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[–] cjh8504 9 years ago

That's it? She's been doing that for 16 years, and she doesn't even make 500 grand per? That's a disgrace. The cast of The Big Bang Theory makes over a million per and they've been only doing it half as long. They must be greedy.

Rod Taylor RIP. May you finally get that Dalmatian Plantation in the sky. Macho Man 2015 WWE HOF.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] spacemanspiff00 9 years ago

The only people who make more are:

Jim Parsons, Kaley Cuoco, Johnny Galecki 1 million per

Mark Harmon $525,000 per

Kevin Spacey $500,000 per

People who make less:

Patrick Dempsey and Ellen Pompeo $350,000 per

Julie Bowen $190,000 per

Angie Harmon $185,000 per

Kate Walsh $175,000 per

Kerry Washington $150,000 per

Julia Louis-Dreyfus $150,000 per

Mindy Kaling $140,000 per

Will Arnett $125,000 per

Tea Leoni $125,000 per

Mandy Patinkin $125,000 per

Andre Braugher, $100,000 per

Johnny Lee Miller $100,000 per

Anthony Anderson $100,000 per

Jesse L. Martin $100,000 per

Michael Sheen and Lizzy Caplan $100,000 per

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[–] cjh8504 9 years ago

What's Jesse L Martin do anymore? What does Ted Danson make for CSI, Space? And the three main stars held out for a million per, Lynda, or they weren't gonna continue the show. Greedy bastards.

Rod Taylor RIP. May you finally get that Dalmatian Plantation in the sky. Macho Man 2015 WWE HOF.

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[–] spacemanspiff00 9 years ago

Jesse L Martin is staring on the hit "The Flash" on the CW. Ted Danson makes $225,000 per episode.

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[–] cjh8504 9 years ago

Oh. Why wasn't he listed on your list of top earners there? I thought he got paid less than 100,000. I knew that couldn't be true. And to think he was the highest paid actor in television history at one time in 1993 making 450,000 per episode.

Rod Taylor RIP. May you finally get that Dalmatian Plantation in the sky. Macho Man 2015 WWE HOF.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] Cognoscente (2503) 3 years ago

MacGyver took part of the gimmick in The A-Team to a whole new level, and MacGyver usually had different people to interact with in each episode as opposed to the same sidekicks.

MacGyver is also why the Mission: Impossible revival series bombed. MacGyver was essentially a one man team.

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[–] Iffy762 (1331) 3 years ago

marking to read later

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