Rewatched Psycho II for the first time in 2yrs
Its better than i remembered, i think i may slightly prefer it over this now.
sharePsycho II was decent, but it really benefited from people's extremely low expectations for a sequel.
share
MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > Rewatched Psycho II for the first time i...
the picture quality of this is ridiculously good for a 1960 movie, at least from where i got this, must be remastered like crazy, it was like one of those new flicks they shoot in black and white, right at the early scene are full of recognisable people like hitchcock's daughter that has appeared in many documentaries about his movies on dvd and a re occurring twilight zone actor who seems type casted, several of twilight zone actors keep showing up in the movie, the dialogue between the private detective and bates is so suspenseful the way bates accidentally says that a couple has been there and starts stuttering, i like bates' line "mother isn't quite herself today", think about it, also he speaks about the "madhouse" as if he's got personal experience of it, this must be such a shocker for first time viewers, the one we would assume to be the "leading lady", the graphic shot of the mother in the basement, the revelations at the end... the sequels has become a bit obscure in the recent years, they look quite aged today even though they were made decades after this, a major reason for that i guess is because they have got that experimental 1980s style of camera work and keeping in fashion of what was cool at the time, funny that way how really old movies ages better than 1970s onwards, i recently re watched the psycho sequels and they are quite enjoyable, i recognise the kitchen more from them as they take more of a centre stage in those, the house plays a bigger part in the sequels, and it somehow looks spookier in colour.
🚿 💀 👵 🛎 🐦 🦉 🍞 🚪 🚓 🛣 🏚 🕸
as you made a short stop,
wanted to put you on hands of clock,
roll around all the time,
run it on renewable energy so battery wont go out,
bell you ring as i was lost in deep dream,
clock was ticking hung my head as you had to leave.
Its better than i remembered, i think i may slightly prefer it over this now.
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Personally, I don't, but I do believe that Psycho II, being in color and from 1983, well into the "R-rated movie period" is becoming more accessible than the 1960 original, which was from "the late Hays Code era" and made under censorship.
But worse for the 1960 original, these days in the first half hour or so, it just looks OLD. The cars. The female hairstyles(the men come off better -- since 1960, America went to long hair for men and then back to short). Janet Leigh's suitdress for the car ride(her first skirt and blouse outfit is more sexy.) What makes the first half hour so "classic" -- Hitchcock's heavy formality and precision in his filmmaking -- now seems "of another time and place." And of course, there are no shocks until 47 minutes in.
I say all of the above STILL loving the 1960 original more than any of the sequels but...I understand.
the picture quality of this is ridiculously good for a 1960 movie, at least from where i got this, must be remastered like crazy, it was like one of those new flicks they shoot in black and white,
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That's true. The clarity of the images is much better than the TV prints of the 70's and 80's, even though above I speak of how "old" Psycho looks -- the PRINT quality is brand spanking new, these days. And it has been given a rich and resonant sound makeover --- everybody sounds like they are in stereo.
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right at the early scene are full of recognisable people like hitchcock's daughter that has appeared in many documentaries about his movies on dvd
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She's still alive -- one of the two remaining cast members of Psycho who are(Vera Miles is the other one) -- but evidently in her 90's and away from public view(her parents Alfred and Alma died at 80 and 82 respectively; she has long outpaced them, thanks to daddy's wealth among other things.)
And how "fair and tough" Papa Hitchocck was: he cast his daughter here and in other roles, but of a "dowdy comic relief type."
nd a re occurring twilight zone actor who seems type casted, several of twilight zone actors keep showing up in the movie,
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I expect you are speaking of Martin Balsam(Arbogast the detective), but you raise an interesting point: there are OTHER Twilight Zone actors in the film(Vaughn Taylor, John Anderson, John McIntire, Simon Oakland, to name a few). Balsam was likely their equal in "character star power" when he got Psycho, but his role was such an unforgettable "near-lead" that he moved up to near leading man status in the 60's.
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the dialogue between the private detective and bates is so suspenseful the way bates accidentally says that a couple has been there and starts stuttering,
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Its a classic, suspense and humor on the knife's edge.
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i like bates' line "mother isn't quite herself today", think about it,
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Means little the first time you see the movie -- EVERYTHING the second time you see the movie.
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also he speaks about the "madhouse" as if he's got personal experience of it,
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Yep.
=== this must be such a shocker for first time viewers, the one we would assume to be the "leading lady", the graphic shot of the mother in the basement, the revelations at the end...
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All true. Word is that 1960 audiences had never seen anything like it -- it caused screaming during the film and nightmares at home after seeing it.
the sequels has become a bit obscure in the recent years,
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Unlike, say , the Alien sequels (or for that matter, the Star Wars sequels), the Psycho sequels were made on the cheap with no real sense of importance. They were "throwaways." And they have been thrown away.
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they look quite aged today even though they were made decades after this, a major reason for that i guess is because they have got that experimental 1980s style of camera work and keeping in fashion of what was cool at the time, funny that way how really old movies ages better than 1970s onwards,
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That's a great point. The classicism of Hitchcock's Psycho reflected decades of movies before it and has lasted through decades of movies after it.
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i recently re watched the psycho sequels and they are quite enjoyable, i recognise the kitchen more from them as they take more of a centre stage in those, the house plays a bigger part in the sequels, and it somehow looks spookier in colour.
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Trivia point: In Psycho II, they didn't even build the entire motel on the backlot. They just built the office area from the outside. There are no scenes in Cabin One or any other cabin. So all the action was moved INTO the house -- which I thought reduced its "mystery." In Psycho, the house is a place of terror: enter it, you are likely to get killed quickly. In Psycho II, its a place where people "live and hang out." Though EVENTUALLY some folks get killed in there. But nobody gets killed in a motel cabin, because no motel was built for the movie. The budget was THAT cheap. (However, one character gets killed in the motel PARLOR, which WAS built for the movie.)
For Psycho III, they built the motel so they could set a "new" shower scene in Cabin One and stage sex and violence in another cabin....
thank you pal for the thorough answer, read it months ago, you got a good eye on this movie, just rewatched it tonight, i can't remember if i heard why this was shot in black and white, it's quite weird to have one of the most famous movie makers shooting a b&w movie in 1960, it fits though and i wouldn't want it any other way, speaking of this, again the re master of this is amazing, i've never seen a movie of this age with such sharp picture quality, and being hitchcock the photography is great, right from the start with that opening shot of the town, i just noticed something new though, when they're talking outside the church the lip synch doesn't fit at all, and is obviously put on later, struck me again how fans of the twilight zone will recognise a lot of actors not only balsam, it also shares twilight zone's way of close up shots of the actors faces. goodness that house looks spooky, like right out of an old castle monster movie. funny, considering he's the lead, but perkins doesn't appear until about 30 minutes in. weird how this got a string of sequels two decades later, i was totally hooked on them when i was a kid, i recently re watched them and they're just fine i find, i realise many bash them but psycho 2 has got a pretty decent reputation. pardon my english, it's not my first language.
🚿 💀 👵 🛎 🐦 🦉 🍞 🚪 🚓 🛣 🏚 🕸
set to leave cant break free,
you became a habit to me,
i was lost in the world,
nearness of you had to return,
an addiction simple basic need developed,
to your company grew accustomed.
i can't remember if i heard why this was shot in black and white, it's quite weird to have one of the most famous movie makers shooting a b&w movie in 1960, it fits though and i wouldn't want it any other way,
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Hitchcock had been making movies in color exclusively since 1953(Dial M for Murder) and would make them in color to his final film in 1976(Family Plot) with two exceptions:
The Wrong Man(1956) in black and white to give the true story a documentary feel(and to match realistic 50's dramas like Marty and some Italian films.)
Psycho(1960)...Hitchcock said he made Psycho in b/w for one specific reason: he didn't believe the censors would approve the movie if RED blood was seen in the shower scene. Also "audiences would be offended by red blood in the shower scene," Hitchcock said, "as would I." So there's his reason, but I also think he wanted "Psycho" to look like a lot of the cheap black-and-white low budget films of the late fifties, mainly those by gimmick-horror movie maker William Castle (House on Haunted Hill, The Tingler, Macabre.)
Interestingly, there ISN'T all that much blood in the shower scene: two different shots of blood spilling around Marion's feet in sudden gouts(a prop man must have dumped a small can of chocolate syrup.) The blood spiraling from Marion's feet down the drain. There is a fair amount of visible blood AFTER the shower murder: The blood on the outside of the tub leading to Marion's arm(Van Sant had a LOT more of this blood in his 1998 remake); the blood in the tub that Norman mops up; the blood on Norman's hands that he washes off in the sink. After Marion's car sinks in the swamp, the only other blood in Psycho is a slash down Arbogast's face.
again the re master of this is amazing, i've never seen a movie of this age with such sharp picture quality, and being hitchcock the photography is great, right from the start with that opening shot of the town,
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Psycho was filmed on the Universal lot, using Universal soundstages and sound re-recording studios..but RELEASED by Paramount under a contract Hitchcock had there. Eventually, Universal bought Psycho from Hitchcock(the main owner) and Universal has spent decades polishing the print visually and giving it layer upon layer of better sound. I just saw Psycho at a movie theater last week and the sound effects literally surrounded the audience (rain splashing all over us, cars roaring past us.) The content of Psycho looks like 1960(clothes, cars, hairstyles), but it is a 1960 that happened "just last week," that's how clear it looks.
By contrast, most Psycho DVDS -- and YouTube -- have the original 1960 trailer for Psycho starring Alfred Hitchcock as a tour guide and THAT print looks old and tattered and tinny in sound. That's REALLY how old Psycho is -- though if memory serves, somebody tried to clean up that trailer, too -- or at least the sound.
again the re master of this is amazing, i've never seen a movie of this age with such sharp picture quality, and being hitchcock the photography is great, right from the start with that opening shot of the town,
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Psycho was filmed on the Universal lot, using Universal soundstages and sound re-recording studios..but RELEASED by Paramount under a contract Hitchcock had there. Eventually, Universal bought Psycho from Hitchcock(the main owner) and Universal has spent decades polishing the print visually and giving it layer upon layer of better sound. I just saw Psycho at a movie theater last week and the sound effects literally surrounded the audience (rain splashing all over us, cars roaring past us.) The content of Psycho looks like 1960(clothes, cars, hairstyles), but it is a 1960 that happened "just last week," that's how clear it looks.
By contrast, most Psycho DVDS -- and YouTube -- have the original 1960 trailer for Psycho starring Alfred Hitchcock as a tour guide and THAT print looks old and tattered and tinny in sound. That's REALLY how old Psycho is -- though if memory serves, somebody tried to clean up that trailer, too -- or at least the sound.
i just noticed something new though, when they're talking outside the church the lip synch doesn't fit at all, and is obviously put on later
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Yes, "post production sound looping" happens a lot with movies -- I believe it is pretty much REQUIRED for actors to go in and say their lines again so as to make the lines more audible than when they were first taped on location.
I had not noticed that church example...but I DO notice that when Norman speaks his first line to Marion(and his first line in the movie): "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you in all this rain -- go ahead in, please" THAT line is not well-synced either. Oh, well, as critic Pauline Kael said: "A great film isn't a perfect film." Ironically, Perkins first line there was recorded on the "second Bates Motel set" -- an INTERIOR sound stage version that allowed for better sound recording than the "first Bates Motel set" -- the backlot version. But I guess the rain got in the way.
It was noted that when Heath Ledger tragically died before the release of The Dark Knight(2008) and his turn there as the Joker...FILMING was completed, but post-production looping may NOT have been. Ledger won a posthumous Best Supporting Actor Oscar for a role that may not have been quite "finished." But he was great with what he got!
struck me again how fans of the twilight zone will recognise a lot of actors not only balsam,
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Well, Hitchcock and his casting person were certainly drawing from "the usual pool of talent" for those supporting roles, and indeed, all of them from Balsam on down did Twilight Zones, and Alfred Hitchcock Presents, and The Alfred Hitchcock Hour(later, it started in 1962) and so "Psycho" is a "comfortable nostalgia place" if you are looking for those actors. Interestingly a lot of the cheapjack horror movies from Roger Corman and William Castle could NOT cast those people; they had to cast "a level down" in cost or even unknowns.
Truth be told, you can also find some of those Twlight Zone people in Hitchcock's North by Northwest...and none of them are in Psycho. There were a LOT of character actors in Hollywood back then.
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it also shares twilight zone's way of close up shots of the actors faces.
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Close-ups like that were the "TV style" of the time, which is why one critic who didn't like Psycho called it "just one of those TV series episodes." Well, in the close-ups and many dramatic set-ups, it DID look like a TV show episode, but....when the "rubber met the road"(the shower murder, the staircase murder, the HOUSE inside and out)...it was "all movie."
I would also note that the 1957 jury room classic "12 Angry Men" -- from a TV play -- also used those kinds of close-ups. Hitchcock cast Martin Balsam FROM "12 Angry Men"(on recommendation of screenwriter Joe Stefano) so perhaps "12 Angry Men" inspired the style of Psycho(particularly --in Martin Balsam's interrogation of Perkins!)
goodness that house looks spooky, like right out of an old castle monster movie.
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There have been other "major houses" in the movies -- the house in Gone with the Wind, the house in Rebecca, the house in Giant(which looks like the Psycho house on steroids)...but NONE of them is as famous as the house in Psycho. Part of the greatness of Psycho is that Hitchcock figured out a way to move "Dracula's castle" near "Your Town, USA" and to make it plausible. Hitchcock told Truffaut that there were many REAL houses like that in the backwoods of Northern California, he was "just being accurate." Well, maybe...but he made sure to have clouds float by the house after the rainstorm and to film it with "fantastical clarity" when Arbogast sees it and especially when he walks up to it.
The art director of the Gothic "Batman" of 1989 said that the art direction of "Batman" was inspired by "Psycho" because he felt that "the greatest special effect in movie history was the house in Psycho."
And I love how, for 90% of the movie, we only see the house from one angle : up the hill to our left, looming over the motel and watching it. Only at the climax, when Lila climbs the hill to the house from another direction, do we see it from another angle.
The house in Psycho is a CHARACTER in the movie...and when they made Psycho II, they not only brought back Anthony Perkins and Vera Miles..they brought back the house.
funny, considering he's the lead, but perkins doesn't appear until about 30 minutes in.
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Hitchcock toyed with "stardom" a lot. Anthony Perkins noted, in one interview about Psycho: "Have you ever noticed how little Norman is IN it?" He shows up at the 30 minute mark and disappears during any scenes in Fairvale. And yet -- everybody remembers Norman Bates in Psycho and he got more out of his limited screen time in THAT movie than he did being "on screen all the time" in the sequels.
One movie earlier -- in North by Northwest -- the female lead, Eve Kendall, shows up at the 52 minute mark! Almost an hour into the movie! (The actress who played Eve, Eva Marie Saint, said she at first hesitated to take the role because of this.) And yet: North by Northwest is Saint's most famous movie -- even beating her Oscar-winning rolein On the Waterfront.
weird how this got a string of sequels two decades later,
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As "landmark" as Psycho was in 1960, Psycho II was its own kind of landmark in 1983. I believe this was the longest time span between an original and a sequel, ever. 23 years. Jaws 2 followed Jaws by 3 years, in comparison.
In 1986, Scorsese had Paul Newman in The Color of Money -- a sequel to Newman in "The Hustler" of 1961. A 25 year span. But Psycho II got it started, and then turned Norman Bates into a "series character." For better or worse. Worse, says I.
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i was totally hooked on them when i was a kid, i recently re watched them and they're just fine i find, i realise many bash them but psycho 2 has got a pretty decent reputation. pardon my english, it's not my first lan
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You are doing great in another language. My main regard for the Psycho sequels are that they saved Anthony Perkins career and "re-activated him" as a sort of star again, and paid him well, with the final sequel being made about two years before his early death at age 60 in 1992. That's the best thing about them, IMHO. Indeed, I think even when Perkins passed away, a "Psycho V" was being contemplated -- about Norman's SON.
here we go again, time to rewatch this, i enjoy this movie every once in a while. man, tom in the beginning hitting on the leading lady sure comes off as sleazy, it's like i'd rather seen him enter bates' house than the detective (martin balsam), well not really but you know, i love perkins' reaction when the leading lady asks him "do you go out with friends?", and the little smile he gets when the swamp swallows the car, and man does he get nervous when the detective questions him, not a great poker face and starts stuttering, that detective had to get suspicious. even though i know the movie well it's still a shocker when you realise the leading lady is about to leave the story since you've gone through the movie through her eyes up to that point, norman had just been introduced and the other people left behind in the beginning, so you sort of loses the movie's star. big thanks for the extensive answers, gave me quite a reading there, about censorship, i don't know if you've seen the movie "hitchcock" with anthony hopkins, but there the shot of a toilet was also an issue and a first time for that if i recall the story right, i had no idea another psycho sequel was contemplated, that would have been amazing, i wonder if it would have been a tv movie then like the last sequel was. i got nothing out of the 1998 remake, it's been so long now i can't remember much of it but i can only imagine how grotesque and vulgar it might be than anything else.
🚿 💀 👵 🛎 🐦 🦉 🍞 🚪 🚓 🛣 🏚 🕸
sometimes saturday night has a lonely sound,
missing the good old times,
when your love was around,
its empty and dusty now,
you threw a party for the soul,
made stars glow had pizza and rock n roll.
here we go again, time to rewatch this,
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And your excellent post reminds us that you mean the original, not Psycho II as in the heading.
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i enjoy this movie every once in a while
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Don't we all...its so odd...what was once horrifying, terrifying, something hard to watch ...is now oddly warm and comforting. Nostalgia on steroids.
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. man, tom in the beginning hitting on the leading lady sure comes off as sleazy, it's like i'd rather seen him enter bates' house than the detective (martin balsam), well not really but you know,
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Heh...that would be rather fun to have Tom Cassidy PERSONALLY trace Marion to the Bates Motel(maybe Arbogast does the leg work but "hands off" to Cassidy) and climb those stairs. Of course, Hitchcock wanted his victims to be "sympathetic to neutral," , he didn't much like the audience to root for jerks to die. (Which happens both in the Psycho sequels and at the end of Silence of the Lambs.)
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i love perkins' reaction when the leading lady asks him "do you go out with friends?",
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Yes there is that moment BEFORE he says "Well, a boy's best friend is his mother" where he really struggles with the thought -- mother is taking over.
CONT
and the little smile he gets when the swamp swallows the car,
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Yes, after nervously gulping his Kandy Korn and watching the car stop sinking...this is a marvelously low-key, deadpan sequence -- Psycho often plays "cool" not hysterical, very Hitchcock.
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and man does he get nervous when the detective questions him, not a great poker face and starts stuttering, that detective had to get suspicious.
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More masterful deadpan between the two actors, even as things suddenly "heat up" when Arbogast says "Back where?" and Norman says "back to where she came from" -- "No, you said she was sitting back there..."
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even though i know the movie well it's still a shocker when you realise the leading lady is about to leave the story since you've gone through the movie through her eyes up to that point, norman had just been introduced and the other people left behind in the beginning, so you sort of loses the movie's star.
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You lose the major star(beautiful, ALSO deadpan but tortured Janet Leigh) and indeed you lose the entire cast of the first act except Sam ...time for Norman to step up and "star"
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CONT
about censorship, i don't know if you've seen the movie "hitchcock" with anthony hopkins,
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Yes, I have. Its good when it sticks to the main story about "the fight to make Psycho," but other material is wrong, and the film wasn't allowed by the Hitchcock estate to use clips or the script from Psycho.
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but there the shot of a toilet was also an issue and a first time for that if i recall the story right,
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That's right. Imagine: many people likely used a toilet at the theater where they saw Psycho, but this was the first time one could be shown on the screen.
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i had no idea another psycho sequel was contemplated, that would have been amazing,
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Its very odd. It seems that Hitchcock himself had to die(in 1980) before any number of people decided to try to sequel his greatest film. Plus the novel's author Robert Bloch wrote yet ANOTHER Psycho II.
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i wonder if it would have been a tv movie then like the last sequel was.
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Maybe. Psycho IV's being a cable TV sequel was rather an insult, I thought.
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i got nothing out of the 1998 remake, it's been so long now i can't remember much of it but i can only imagine how grotesque and vulgar it might be than anything else.
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Well, it proved that Psycho was a creature of its 1959/1960 time -- and yet so timeless than a remake was redundant.
The reason I heard it was shot in B&W was due to his thoughts that it would not be successful as a film and, if not released as a film- he would show in in two parts on his TV show.
shareThe reason I heard it was shot in B&W was due to his thoughts that it would not be successful as a film and, if not released as a film- he would show in in two parts on his TV show.
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You raise an interesting issue here.
Psycho composer Bernard Herrmann said that Hitchcock looked at a rough cut of Psycho -- WITHOUT Herrmann's screeching terror music -- and felt it was terrible and said "I think I will cut this down for my TV show." Herrmann claimed that he persuaded Hitchcock NOT to do that, and to look at a new cut with music. "History was made."
But how sad if Psycho HAD gone to TV in 1960. All the landmark things -- sex, a toilet, bloody violence -- would have likely been removed.
And in 1960, Hitchcock's series was only a HALF HOUR long(less commercials, about 22 minutes)...he would likely have had to done a THREE-parter(he did some of those) to accommodate even half of Psycho.
What I find "new" about your theory is that maybe from the BEGINNING, Hitchcock hedged his bets by making Psycho with his TV crew in black and white -so the movie COULD broadcast as a TV show, with cuts, if necessary.
But Psycho made it to movie theaters, it made Hitchocck richer than ever, and it made MOVIE history.
The Alfred Hitchcock show went to an hour in 1962– so he may have been planning for that. Agree- the Music MAKES the film.
sharehappy halloween, i thought it was a good time to rewatch this, i just can't get enough of this movie it seems, spot on how this is oddly warm and comforting. "he must have noticed my wedding ring" was kind of a mean joke. the police that pulls marion crane over in the beginning of the movie actually looks a bit scary on his own, i don't know if that's on purpose or not, i never know if the voices heard as she's driving are them actually talking or her imagining what they're saying, can you believe "she was even flirting with me"... norman bates comes off as quite the gentleman after her encounter with sleazy tom, as marion and norman are talking in the office, it does sound like he has experience from seeing the inside of a "madhouse" as he calls it... "some place", i actually still get surprised how suddenly she disappears from the movie, and it felt like a loss because she's such a pleasant captivating leading lady, after all it was her story you were engaged in, norman had just showed up, now the scene between norman and arbogast is not pleasant, that is nerve wrecking.
🚿 💀 👵 🛎 🐦 🦉 🍞 🚪 🚓 🛣 🏚 🕸
was in meeting concerning to drive you out,
you lured behind curtain took me to the side,
with feminine mystique changed my sight,
made me infiltrate the group,
from within working on behalf of you.
happy halloween,
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Belatedly, back atcha.
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i thought it was a good time to rewatch this,
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Yes, I myself generally look at Psycho in full only once a year, and Halloween feels right -- even though the movie sure doesn't feel very "Halloweeny" until Marion reaches the motel and house at the 30 minute mark, and even AFTER that, it alternates Gothic horror with rather straightforward(but NOT pedestrian) mystery plotting.
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i just can't get enough of this movie it seems,
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It has that effect. Hitchcock famously made a classic about obsession -- Vertigo. Some people obsess about Vertigo itself -- but I think a lot more obsess about Psycho -- and can't figure out WHY. I think one critic called it "possibly the most perfectly made movie of all time" and that's part of it. Every scene. Every shot. Every line. Pretty close to perfect -- in an accessible way.
In recent viewings of the past few years, I've found that the movie indeed starts slow, but once Marion gets to the motel, the storyline seems to move incredibly fast through the dialogues, the murders, the climax, the cell. Its like my brain has now absorbed the story so completely that the movie finishes before I can fully take it in. Very weird.
CONT
spot on how this is oddly warm and comforting.
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I"ve given some thought to why Psycho feels "warm and comforting" these days and I suppose it is a raw and melancholy one.
I was alive in 1960 when Psycho came out, but not aware of it. That came with the mid-sixties and the re-release and the TV showings(both failed and successful.)
And even THEN, a bit later after Psycho's release..I was a kid. And my parents were alive, and my grandparents were alive, and I had a whole other life...with people taking care of me. And part of HOW those people took care of me was...to FORBID me from seeing Psycho at that age. Were they right? Were they wrong? I dunno. But they cared enough to say "no." Which only made Psycho more DESIRED by me to see...and then I did, and now I know it by heart, and they are all gone and so...it is warm and comforting.
CONT
"he must have noticed my wedding ring" was kind of a mean joke.
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A father having his real life daughter say it, too. Tough love. Expert casting.
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the police that pulls marion crane over in the beginning of the movie actually looks a bit scary on his own, i don't know if that's on purpose or not,
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Oh, I think it is on purpose. One female friend of mine said, "that is the scariest scene in Psycho for me." Its all how the cop is filmed -- he is actually rather friendly and helpful until Marion insults him -- though he senses her paranoia.
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i never know if the voices heard as she's driving are them actually talking or her imagining what they're saying, can you believe "she was even flirting with me"...
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Well, in Marion's imagination, she is having some fun at her "enemies expense," ther are little digs at Caroline and Lowery and Cassidy in her imagined conversations.
Recall at the end of the movie, there's a voice in Norman's head, too: Mother.
--norman bates comes off as quite the gentleman after her encounter with sleazy tom,
..and the nervous boss, and the scary cop, and the cold car salesman...
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as marion and norman are talking in the office, it does sound like he has experience from seeing the inside of a "madhouse" as he calls it... "some place",
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Yep. The source novel specifies that Norman was catatonic and committed when found with the bodies of his mother and her boyfriend. He wasn't blamed for the killings, but he was "put away" for awhile.
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CONT
i actually still get surprised how suddenly she disappears from the movie, and it felt like a loss because she's such a pleasant captivating leading lady, after all it was her story you were engaged in,
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As Hitchocck would say, "that was the entire point." Give the audience someone to hang their hat on(and, for the men in the audience, pretty and often in lingerie)...and then kill her. Violently. More violently than anyone had ever been killed in a movie before.
(Here, of course, I must note that Hitchocck made a trailer in 1960 where he said a woman would get killed in a shower -- so he didn't REALLY mean it as a surprise.)
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now the scene between norman and arbogast is not pleasant, that is nerve wrecking.
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Nerve wracking suspense as Arbogast gets closer to Norman's secret...which is bad for Norman AND for Arbogast. Notice that the scene is lit for dusk-into-night, and how we feel that Mrs. Bates might just appear and kill Arbo at ANY time WHILE he is talking to Norman -- particularly with his back to the house out on the porch in his last scene with Norman. SORT OF his last scene.
bump
shareyou've got such a good eye on this movie it's always so interesting to read and that's an interesting anecdote your history how you came to discover this movie and how they didn't allow you to watch it, yes it was nice to be taken care of, i never looked at it like that before, that's by the way partly why i like these boards, you don't get strictly reviews, and there are so many stories about psycho of how people wouldn't dare to shower for a long while, i'm sure you've heard about it. i read your post months ago but didn't rewatch the movie until now, and i noticed for the first time now how janet leigh comes last in the opening credits. the first scary bit in this is the appearance of the cop 🕶 stopping leigh on the road, but really gets tense when norman appears, how insecure and troubled he seems, like his reaction when she asks "do you go out with friends". though if you saw this movie for the first time i guess you'd expect it's his "ill" mother who murders people, i wonder if it was norman getting rid of his mother's new man as well, "and the way he died", as we later learns, and the shouts from the house, that's just norman switching back and forth in personality. notice norman smiles at the strangest moments, when the car disappears in the swamp and after martin balsam leaves. this may sound stupid but when janet leigh is driving the car and discussions are heard and appear, i never know if it's for real or her dreaming it up. as i brought up earlier there are a lot of actors from the 1950s twilight zone series, but except for martin balsam i haven't seen them in anything else than this of what i can recall, by the way, norman's favorite twilight zone episode would probably be "young man's fancy", also available as radio drama 📻 , sorry if i repeated something, we've made quite a thread here.
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put in some place,
as mind strayed,
wasnt quite myself,
there are laughs and yells,
at some place.
I just saw Psycho 2 and the ending sucks and felt really forced.
sharePeterBlues wrote:
that's an interesting anecdote your history how you came to discover this movie and how they didn't allow you to watch it, yes it was nice to be taken care of, i never looked at it like that before,
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Its funny. I think that Psycho might be the ONLY movie I wasn't allowed to see -- and this was on television , it was out of theaters. It had that bad a reputation.
During the same period, by "negotiating" with my parents, I saw such violent movies first run as Bonnie and Clyde and The Wild Bunch, and we just walked in to a really violent movie called "Dark of the Sun" one time that had Psycho WAY beat on blood and violence.
The Psycho ban lifted when it returned to TV in the early 70's, I was older and my parents didn't much care anymore about what I saw. The "R" rating and the "X" rating kept me out of some movies in the early 70s, but by the mid-70's I was old enough to see those movies in revival houses (movies like Midnight Cowboy and A Clockwork Orange) and I got all caught up. But there were LOTS of "adult movies" in the 70's; Psycho was all by its forbidden lonesome self for much of the sixties.
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that's by the way partly why i like these boards, you don't get strictly reviews, and there are so many stories about psycho of how people wouldn't dare to shower for a long while, i'm sure you've heard about it.
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When he was alive, Anthony Perkins said he came to enjoy --after an initial period of resentment -- how people would come up to him and "tell their Psycho stories" -- how they had to sneak out of the house to see it in 1960, or how it made for a great date night, or how scared they were to take showers . Perkins found that Psycho was THE movie for so many people. (As I'm sure The Exorcist and Jaws were for a slightly later generation.)
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read your post months ago but didn't rewatch the movie until now, and i noticed for the first time now how janet leigh comes last in the opening credits.
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Yep. On the poster, she is last after five names: Anthony Perkins, Vera Miles, John Gavin...Martin Balsam and John McIntire. In the MOVIE credits, she is last after EVERYBODY. Hitch was certainly clueing audiences in: Janet Leigh isn't quite the lead of this movie...or she would have been listed FIRST. Why was she listed LAST? We found out!
--the first scary bit in this is the appearance of the cop 🕶 stopping leigh on the road,
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I had a significant other who contended that the "cop stop" scene in Psycho was the scariest scene in the movie to her! Just goes to show you how powerfully Hitchcock captured the paranoia of that scene...and the menace of that cop(who actually sounds quite nice and reasonable -- and who gives Leigh the fatal suggestion: "There are plenty of motels in the area...you should have...I mean just to be safe.")
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notice norman smiles at the strangest moments, when the car disappears in the swamp and after martin balsam leaves.
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The smile after Balsam leaves is particularly "mysterious" -- Norman had (understandably) been watching Balsam drive away initially with a "mean, grim, troubled" look on his face...but then the smile slowly forms, and he GIGGLES. What gives? I am thinking that either Norman -- or MOTHER -- is thinking "Mother got away with this...he's not coming back. What a fool."
By the way, notice that the shot on Balsam walking away from Norman -- diagonally left to right and off screen is a RHYME for how Balsam walks away from Sam and Lila at the hardware store. Balsam in both scenes walks the same way and the other characters watch him walk away with distaste.
When Van Sant remade Psycho, he didn't end the hardware store scene with Arbogast(Macy) walking away. He BLEW the "Hitchcock rhyme."
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this may sound stupid but when janet leigh is driving the car and discussions are heard and appear, i never know if it's for real or her dreaming it up.
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Well, its meant to feel like BOTH. She's dreaming it up -- but since we hear the REAL actors as the REAL characters saying the lines, we tend to believe that we are "seeing a real scene." Psycho screenwriter Joe Stefano said this scene began with Hitchocck and him discussing whether or not to put this scene into the movie as a "real scene" (after Marion's car sinks.) But instead, it became Marion's imagined voices in her head -- just like Norman will hear Mother in HIS head in the cell at the end of the movie.
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This scene at once harkens back to "radio drama"(all heard) and helps Psycho play a bit like an art film -- experimental, abstract.
I love how Marion imagines Caroline saying "She's always a little bit late on Monday mornings" -- it must have been an issues.
And how she gives Cassidy, the chilling, almost obscene line: "If any of that money's missing, I'll replace it with her fine, soft flesh."
As critic Robin Wood wrote: "Marion's judgment of herself via Cassidy -- hideously disproportionate to the crime -- will find its hideous enactment."