MovieChat Forums > Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Discussion > Yep..."As horrific as this president is,...

Yep..."As horrific as this president is, he is a symptom of much deeper problems."

posted 5 years ago by [deleted]
24 replies | jump to latest

As horrific as this president is, he is a symptom of much deeper problems.

Even foreign influence plays on nat’l wounds that we refuse to address: income inequality, racism, corruption,a willingness to excuse bigotry.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1109876169271316481

He can stay, he can go. He can be impeached, or voted out in 2020.

But removing Trump will not remove the infrastructure of an entire party that embraced him; the dark money that funded him; the online radicalization that drummed his army; nor the racism he amplified+reanimated.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1109877625265229824

In order for us to heal as a nation, we ALL must pursue the hard work of addressing these root causes.

It’s not as easy as voting. It means having uncomfortable moments convos w/ loved ones, w/ media, w/ those we disagree, and yes - within our own party, too.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1109879921151750148

[–] whynotwriteme (7272) 5 years ago

Actually, the Presidency of Donald Trump is merely a symptom of Americans being unwilling to accept Socialist leadership. Yes, it's really that simple.

[–] B1cKsurN (15265) 5 years ago

Yup....We don't tow the SJW line so we're "radicalized"

Fuck these people, fuck them in their bigoted assholes.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

It's literally the ground work they are laying in their minds to expand their hate for Trump to all people, namely white conservative leaning people.

"It's bigger than Trump, we need to focus on X, the average person isn't smart enough to vote, conservative viewpoints are hate speech etc etc"

The worst thing is these creeps are dead serious.

Liberal Youth in motion.

[–] McQualude (4231) 5 years ago

The good 'ol socialist bogeyman, boomers fall for it every time.

[–] whynotwriteme (7272) 5 years ago

Sorry. Not a boomer.

[–] McQualude (4231) 5 years ago

I was talking about the people who elected Trump.

[–] whynotwriteme (7272) 5 years ago

I know.

[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 5 years ago

It was the boomers parents that were afraid of commies. Boomers were liberal in college and grew conservative in the 80s.

[–] McQualude (4231) 5 years ago

We are all far more tolerant when young, that's normal, but that isn't true liberalism. Liberalism is about inclusion, equal opportunity, and individual rights. For example I dislike abortion but I am against making it illegal. I dislike the KKK but I am pro-free speech even for hate groups. I don't use marijuana and never have but I am pro-legalization. I am not gay, don't necessarily want to be around gay people (though I have nothing against them), but I believe gay people should be allowed to marry and have all the priveledges heteorsexuals have. Freedom means people get to do and say things even if I don't like it. That is liberalism, that's what it means to be liberal. Conservatism is exclusive and regressive, and emphasizes putting those closest to us first, it is resistance to change, and is healthy in normal doses. You can be both liberal and conservative in some measures. But Conservatism as a political philosophy isn't healthy, it's exclusivism taken too far, it's anti-liberalism, and preys on peoples base nature promoting fear and intolerance. People who know what it means to be, and are, liberal, don't change to what you are calling conservative. The people who are so called conservatives now were always conservative, but constant exposure to propaganda and fear mongering have made them so afraid of bogeymen so that they vote and react without though out of fear and hatred.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Thank you for these quotes TemporaryOne, although it's ironic that the very things you, rightly, praise AO-C, for saying, are the very things I've been saying to you for weeks.

In other words, Trump is the symptom, not the cause; that removing Trump from office will not be the full panacea for everything that is wrong with US, or indeed global, politics; that we need to have difficult conversations with people we disagree with, both in and out of our own party.

Trump is indeed horrific, but we need to ask how such a horrific man ever got elected to begin with.

Credit to AO-C for raising these salient points.

As an aside, I really like AO-C, and believe she speaks a lot of sense. My only caveat is that I wish she wasn't being treated like a rock-star by the press, but admittedly that's not her fault.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

In case you missed it, I've only been posting on this site for a few months and said almost nothing about "Russia Gate" until the last 36 hours.

The only things that came close were posting about how the judges were ruling in the Stone and Manafort and Cohen cases, and posting a list of all the people Special Counsel charged to explicit Trump supporters. I also defended Nancy Pelosi's "impeachment off the table" remarks, I think I was the only one who did.

And on other site, more than a year ago, I argued against obstruction of justice charges (it's not obstruction when the people conducting the investigations say "it's not obstruction, nothing he did had any effect on the investigation"), legal obstruction is not what people think it is.

The media is a two-edged sword, just like technology and globalism and corporations and capitalism are double-edged swords. She's pushing the platform you want to win thanks to her rock star status.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Well, for all our arguments, it seems that you and I agree with more things than we differ over. Perhaps, we've just had a failure in communication.

You do have to bear in mind however that I occasionally use figurative speech. Just because I say something like 'the Democrats would deserve to lose' doesn't mean I want them to. It means I'm frustrated with their stupidity and want them to raise their game, so that they will beat Trump, and I don't therefore have to say 'I told you so'.

And yes, sadly mass publicity is a necessary evil. But I would still prefer to see politicians act and behave like politicians rather than celebs (once again, that's a criticism of the media rather than Ocasio-Cortez). We should counter Trump's attacks on Hollywood by arguing that he IS Hollywood. He's the celebrity President. He's the former gameshow host and would-be actor. Not Obama, not Hillary, not Warren, not Biden, not Bernie, all of whom have had relatively serious careers.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Agreed. We definitely understand what's at stake. We definitely understand how various forms of Democratic stupidity undermines eliminating the pure evil (I had to say it) controlling the government.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I don't like to use the term 'evil'. It's too absolutist for my liking. But certainly the administration, if not necessarily the man per se, is pure evil in terms of what it threatens, particularly with respect to civil and human rights, and environmental protections.

And generally speaking, the Democrats are much much smarter than the Republicans, but their, our even, fatal flaw is that we don't always know how to sell ourselves.

[–] ctwdidswej (212) 5 years ago

Trump is not an existential threat. He's the guy who saved us from the concrete threat of Hillary Clinton. Look at the pushback that Trump got from liberal journalists when he said he was ending the war against Syria. It looked insane.

Liberals are right to be fearful, not of Trump but of their own system. They have concentrated so much power over our lives in government. It's a bad idea bound to go wrong. The Russia hoax was a lie they told themselves to explain it all away. Before the election, they told us Trump would start a nuclear war. That's how evil he is.

As these hoaxes are collapsing, why does the crying grow louder? Psychology. It's hard to let go of an idea you're invested in. As the persecution fantasy becomes harder to maintain, you can keep it going in your mind by raising the stakes. "I don't normally say this but Trump is pure evil". Right.

This is how people get cut off from reality. Everyone else see liberals scrutinizing words and overreacting to them, while overlooking things that are actually happening and it's just bizarre. Trump Derangement Syndrome. No one is going to believe you in 2020 when you're trying to tell us all about how Trump will bring back slavery. George Bush killed millions of Muslims in wars based on lies. No one thinks that about him. In fact liberals think it's cute Bush gave a piece of candy to Moochelle Obama. Should I be afraid of what's at stake? You're darn right. Liberals are evil.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Froth, flute, fin, starfish, snails, cockles, and quill

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

How do you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously an in good faith, when you use terms like 'Moochelle' Obama?

I generally pride myself on intellectual honesty and fairness, even with respect to people I don't disagree with, which is why I rub some fellow progressives the wrong way, but I can distinguish between someone who is making a reasonable argument and a troll, and it's the latter, not the former, who use vile expressions like 'Moochelle' Obama, and absurd hyperbole like 'liberals are evil'.

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

You need to go to your bunker. Why not just say Democracy is evil? The US isn't they way you like it, ergo, the people you don't like are evil. Hey, you have the Supreme Court, Citizens United and Mitch McConnell on your side. Isn't that enough?

[–] McQualude (4231) 5 years ago

You're never going to make that TDS a thing even with sock accounts, it's dumb. It's even dumber than the t-rump thing. And troll with more subtlety. It's 2019 for gods sakes, some of us have been on the web for over 2 decades and have seen good trolling, you ain't it.

[–] ctwdidswej (212) 5 years ago

She said this about John McCain:

John McCain’s legacy represents an unparalleled example of human decency

John McCain supported every war. So do you. Who's "evil"?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Antisemites whose questions are hunchbacks to the poker marrow

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

It sounds like she was simply being polite, or maybe she was honouring his record in combat, but it would have been better for her to have said nothing, or to have simply commended his commitment to public service, rather than commend his voting record and politics, which is effectively anathema to everything she, rightly, represents.

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

I would say McCain's legacy has been distorted after his passing. He may have realized the error of his thinking as he became older and began to see what the repub party was becoming. Not too surprising a Captain in the US Navy would be a war hawk, not that it's to be excused. I mean, what is the US supposed to do with this bloated military? They need to justify the budget, hence, we get war.

[–] RazoulGoozleSmog (169) 5 years ago

What dark money that funded him?