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For all you fools who claim Turks are not white.


Not really that important. But I hear WASPs say that all the time.

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Odd because it seems like everyone except Africans and Asians are considered Caucasoid. Charles Davis lectures that architecture is racist because it was invented by Greeks, aka white people. It's odd how the "woke" movement has embraced 18th century ideas about race.

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Well, interesting, as I'm Greek and I'm told that the ancient Greeks were actually either blue-eyed blonds or blacks from Africa.

Funny that every ancient Greek sculpture I've ever seen looks like one of my relatives.

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I can't say what is typical. There is quite a bit of variation, especially in America where almost all "blacks" and a fair amount of European ancestry and almost all whites have a percentage of African ancestry. But many features have nothing to do with ancestry: red hair can be found all over the world. Hooded eyes are a dominant feature in Asia but extend all the way to Africa and Europe. I myself have hooded eyes and if you smooth my skin with an app, I look Asian, but all my genetic ancestry is from the British Isles. There are dark complected "whites" and light colored "blacks". The more you look at people the more mixed up we get.

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Well we all know race is not set and defined. It's more of a continuum.

I'm sensitive about this topic because I had a classics professor who taught the class that the ancient Greeks were not the Greeks who live there now, but were blond light skinned people from northern Europe. It galled me because I had to sit there and listen to it and I knew it was false - even racist.

I say it's racist on the part of WASPs with British ancestry because it tries to ignore my heritage, and to claim all which was great came from Germanic peoples who now dominate Western culture. And by Germanic people I include the Anglo-Saxons of Britain.

So yes, it galls me when wokesters claim that Greek culture was nothing because it's "white" aka European. But at the same time, remember, in defense of the wokesters, there are Brits who will say Greeks today are not even really white and not related to the ancient Greeks. And there are blacks who say ancient Egyptians were black, when they were clearly Semitic like Jews. But then Kanye West says the Jews of the Bible were black. Hahaha.


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Well that sucks.
I delved into genealogy during the lockdown and learned a lot about the general migration of people from ancient times. Europe is really a mishmash of people from the Mediterranean, Middle East, and Northern Asia. That's a simplification but generally true. Obviously, they didn't spring up out of the ground.

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Turkey was the center of the Ottoman Empire. They regularly raided E Europe and took slaves, so there was lots of forced race mixing.

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Yet I’ve never heard anyone say that, and I live in Boston.

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Turkey’s hard white turn

In 20th-century Turkey, modernisers turned to eugenics and claims of an ancient Asian past to argue that Turks were white

In 1909, the US Circuit Court in Cincinnati set out to decide ‘whether a Turkish citizen shall be naturalised as a white person’. The New York Times covered the case without noting that the plaintiff who brought the case was a Turk. The Times asked: ‘Is the Turk a White Man?’ and answered both yes and no. ‘The original Turks were of the yellow or Mongolian race,’ the Times reported, and they ‘are a cruel and massacring people … But they are also Europeans, as much “white” people as the Huns, Finns, and Cossacks.’ The question of whether the world considered the Turkish people white, and the uncertain responses to it, helped to propel Turkey’s modernisation efforts, and also shaped the state’s support for particular narratives of national identity and, for decades, their dissemination in education.

https://aeon.co/essays/the-fantastic-science-of-turkeys-whiteness-campaign

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