MovieChat Forums > Politics > Israel is a necessary refuge for Jews in...

Israel is a necessary refuge for Jews in the theocratic, hateful and repressive Muslim world


Politics starts with the establishment of the state. The social contract that creates the state is a necessary evil to prevent constant mayhem and chaos. That’s the reason we put up with taxes and laws made by other people. But in many cases not everyone has a role in creating the social contract under which they live. In the case of nearly every Muslim-majority country Jews don’t have a say in the social contract. It’s simply imposed on them from above by an oppressive dictatorship. If that dictatorship will even allow any Jews to live there in the first place.

Israel has a massive monopoly among the countries of the Muslim world on religious diversity and tolerance. There are 49 Muslim-majority countries covering 10,000,000 square miles. Israel is only 1 country covering 10,000 square miles. There are over 10 times as many Muslim citizens of Israel (this excludes the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip) as there are Jews living in all Muslim-majority countries combined! There are over 1,000,000 Muslim citizens of Israel but less than 100,000 Jews among all Muslim-majority countries.

Israel is the only real option for the equality, safety and dignity of Jews in the vast expanse of the Muslim world. For anyone who believes that Jews are entitled to these things in the Muslim world, support for Israel is simply the only game in town.

The norm within the Muslim world is oppressive theocracy. Saudi Arabia is an 830,000 square mile country that only allows Muslims to be citizens. This applies just as much to its native population, who are forbidden to abandon Islam for any other religion. Apostasy from Islam may be punished by death. Non-Muslim non-citizens living in Saudi Arabia are banned from openly practicing their religions. Saudi Arabia is home to Islam’s holiest site in Mecca, a city that is completely off limits to all non-Muslims under all circumstances. This contrasts with Israel, which is home to Judaism’s holiest site in Jerusalem. There are thousands of Muslims and Christians and numerous mosques and churches in Jerusalem. Israel even allows the continued operation of the Al-Aqsa Mosque which sits on top of the holiest site for Judaism!

The largest country bordering Israel is Egypt. It is an officially Arabic country, Islam is its official religion and its civil code is influenced by Islamic law. At the time of Israel’s establishment there were 75,000 Jews in Egypt. Bombings and riots in Egypt at that time killed dozens of Jews and nearly 40% of Egyptian Jews left the country by 1950. After the Suez Crisis of 1956 Egyptian Jews were officially declared by the government to be enemies of the state. 25,000 Jews left Egypt after being forced to sign declarations that they were leaving "voluntarily" and to agree to government confiscation of their assets. The Egyptian Jewish population has steadily declined ever since to the point that there are now only 3 Jews left in all of Egypt!

Syria is the 2nd largest country next to Israel. It’s an officially Arabic country where the President is constitutionally required to be Muslim and Islamic jurisprudence is the main source of legislation. At the time of Israel’s establishment there were 15,000 Jews in Syria. Bombings and riots in Syria at that time killed dozens of Jews. Shortly before Israel’s establishment, the Syrian government barred Jews from government service, owning telephones or driver’s licenses and buying property. In 1948, Syrian Jews were banned from selling property and in 1953 all Jewish bank accounts were frozen. Thousands of Jews left Syria during this time, with only 5,000 left by 1957. Bans on Jewish emigration were turned on and off several times during this period. When the ban was temporarily lifted in 1954, Jews who emigrated were forced to leave all their property to the government. The Syrian Jewish population continued to dwindle over the decades until there were no Jews at all left in Syria by 2020.

Islam is the official state religion of Yemen. Muslims are prohibited from converting to another religion. At the time of Israel’s establishment there were 63,000 Jews in Yemen. Shortly before Israel’s establishment, Muslim rioters assisted by local police murdered 82 Jews and destroyed hundreds of Jewish homes during a riot in the city of Aden. This led to the emigration of almost all of Yemen’s Jews to Israel between 1949-1950. As of 2022 there was reportedly only 1 Jew left in Yemen.

reply

Even Iraq, which had a new government installed by the U.S. after invading the country, is a theocracy. The U.S. oversaw the creation of a new constitution for Iraq that made Islam the official state religion and that states that no law may be enacted that violates the "undisputed" teachings of Islam. The culture of theocracy is so strong in the Muslim world that even the U.S. didn’t try to challenge it when trying to impose democracy on Iraq. At the time of Israel’s establishment there were 150,000 Jews in Iraq. In 1948, Iraqi Jews were forbidden to engage in banking or foreign currency transactions, the issuance of export and import licenses to Jewish merchants were forbidden, all Jewish government workers were fired and Jewish businesses were boycotted. The Iraqi government became determined to get rid of its Jewish population and by 1951 120,000 Jews had left the country. There was further persecution of the remaining Iraqi Jews in the 1960s when Jewish property was expropriated, Jewish bank accounts were frozen, Jews were fired from government jobs, their trading permits were canceled, they were forbidden from using telephones and they were placed under house arrest for extended periods of time. By 2003 there were less than 100 Jews in Iraq and as of 2022 it was down to 3. While under U.S. occupation in 2004, the new Iraqi government refused a proposal to allow tens of thousands of Iraqi Jewish refugees to return.

Afghanistan had the same fate after the U.S. invaded and established a new government. Muslim theocracy was so strong in Afghan culture that the U.S. oversaw a transition from the extremist Islamism of the Taliban to a merely more moderate version of theocracy. Afghanistan remained an officially Islamic country and its new constitution described Islam as its sacred law and required the president of the country to be Muslim. Muslims in Afghanistan had no right to apostasy. Abdul Rahman was a convert to Christianity and in 2006 he was arrested in Afghanistan for apostasy and threatened with execution. International pressure led to his release and flight from Afghanistan to Italy. The decision to let him go was a source of widespread controversy within Afghanistan.

Iran is another oppressive Muslim theocracy. Iran only allows the practice of 4 specified religions. This excludes the Bahai religion, whose adherents number 300,000 in Iran. Bahais are actively persecuted by Iran. The Jewish population has declined from 80,000 in the 1970s to only 8,000 today. Apostasy from Islam is banned and may be punished by death. All women are forced to cover their hair with a hijab. The unelected Supreme Leader of Iran is a Grand Ayatollah. The previous Supreme Leader of Iran put out a fatwa calling for the assassination of British author Salman Rushdie and his publishers because he wrote a novel considered blasphemous. Eligibility for President of Iran requires a candidate to be a Twelver Shiite Muslim.

Indonesia is the largest Muslim-majority country by population, with 270,000,000 people. It is an oppressive theocracy where only 6 religions are officially allowed. In 2017, Christian politician Basuki Tjahaja Purnama was sentenced to 2 years in jail for blasphemy based on a maliciously mischaracterized statement he made while running for reelection as Governor of Jakarta. Just last month a Muslim woman in Indonesia was sentenced to 2 years in jail for blasphemy after making a TikTok video in which she recited a Muslim prayer before eating pork.

Pakistan is the 2nd largest Muslim-majority country by population, with 240,000,000 people. Islam is the official religion and the President must be Muslim. The constitution requires all laws to conform with the injunctions of Islam. In 2010, Asia Bibi was sentenced to death for blasphemy in Pakistan after an argument with Muslim women who harassed her for being Christian. 2 months later, Punjab governor Salman Taseer was assassinated by his bodyguard because he defended Bibi and opposed the blasphemy law. Pakistan’s Minister for Minority Affairs Shahbaz Batti was also assassinated 2 months after that for his attempts to reform blasphemy laws. In 2017, a Muslim student in Pakistan was killed by an angry mob of other students at his university in response to accusations that he posted blasphemy on Facebook.

reply

Coming via a link from another thread...for this I need a strong coffee.
"I'll be back."

reply

Now list the centuries of atrocities committed against Jews by Europeans and Christians.

reply

My god are you dishonest! This is pure deflection. Did you even read the whole thing? What the hell does European history have to do with this issue? This is the *polictics* forum, NOT the history forum. In the present, which is what really matters, there are a lot more Jews in Europe than the Muslim world and European Jews have much greater freedom and equality than the few Jews in the Muslim world do.

What I'm talking about here is THE issue in the here and now. Rampant Islamosupremacy and the lack of religious equality in the Muslim world is one of the world's leading crises. RIGHT NOW! You can't wish it away. There are millions of Jews in Israel who have no safety at all in the Muslim world without it. European history doesn't make that issue just magically disappear! Why can't you just admit the obvious truth that Israel has a right to exist and the Palstinians have an uncompromising obligation to accept that?

Why don't you actually address the issue of Islamosupremacy instead of running away from it?! Is the case for zionism and the State of Israel just so powerful that you don't have any clue how to launch a direct attack on it? Say something actually relevant for once!

reply

Your hating Muslims doesn't make you pro-Jewish. It just makes you a bigot.

reply

Still just more pure deflection. You're just completely incapable of saying anything relevant. *YOU'RE* the bigot. *YOU'RE* the one who called for the Jews in Israel to leave and go to Australia. You don't have the credibility to call anyone else a bigot. All I've done is point out the harsh realities of the Muslim world. Just the facts. I can't change these things. That doesn't make me a bigot. All I've done is to demand equality for Jews in the Muslim world. That doesn't make me a bigot.

Do you have anything intelligent or relevant at all to say about this issue? Why don't you actually address the issue of Islamosupremacy instead of running away from it? Is the case for zionism and the State of Israel just so powerful that you don't have any clue how to launch a direct attack on it?

reply

There are millions of Jews in Israel who have no safety at all in the Muslim world without it(Israel)

So , should all the other religions be carving off bits of Arab countries to make their own in order to combat the "Rampant Islamosupremacy" that they might suffer otherwise?

reply

People of other religions suffering under Islamosupremacy in the Muslim world should carve off bits of Muslim countries in order to get their own. Unfortunately, doing so would cause the same unfair controversies faced by Israel. There's also the alternative of the Muslim world simply dismantling Islamosupremacy.

reply

In the meantime I've read your great OP posts in detail...wow!
And agreed 100% with your conclusion / headline. ♥ ♥ ♥

Is it ok for you if I forward it to others?
And maybe use it (with little changes and adding)?

reply

Yes, please forward it to others.

reply

Thank you!
And probably you already know:


🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​

🇩🇪​🇩🇪​ ✡️​ Solidarity with Israel ✡️​ 🇩🇪​🇩🇪​

Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 14.00 p.m. Brandenburg Gate, Berlin

🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​🇮🇱​


More than 10,000 people expected to demonstrate in Solidarity with Israel
According to organizers, more than ten thousand people are expected to attend a solidarity rally with the victims of the war in Israel on Sunday afternoon in Berlin. An alliance of parties, religious communities, labour unions and civil society organizations called for this. The motto is:

"Stand up against Terror, Hate and Antisemitism - in Solidarity and Compassion for Israel"

The event in front of the Brandenburg Gate is aimed at the people of Israel and all other victims of Hamas, according to the call published on Thursday:
"We want to express our compassion and our unrestricted solidarity to them."

Alliance emphasizes Israel's Right to Self-Defense

The alliance includes, among others, the CDU, SPD, FDP, the Greens, the Left, the German-Israeli Society, the Evangelical Church in Germany (EKD), the Catholic German Bishops' Conference and the Central Council of Jews. Also supporting are the German Joint Welfare Association, the German Federation of Labour Unions, the German Nature Conservation Ring and the movement network Campact.

https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2023/10/berlin-brandenburger-tor-buendnis-demonstration-solidaritaet-israel.html

(article shortened due to limited space)

reply

Meanwhile, conservative states ban books by Jewish authors and ban the teaching of the Holocaust in schools:

"Appointment of Matt Nosanchuk comes as thousands of book challenges across US focus on works about race, LGBTQ and Jewish themes"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/bidens-new-book-ban-czar-is-a-longtime-progressive-jewish-leader/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/florida-rejects-holocaust-textbooks-for-falling-afoul-of-woke-education-ban/

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2022-01-31/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/the-maus-ban-is-even-worse-than-you-think/0000017f-e1a3-df7c-a5ff-e3fb92550000

Let's not forget the neo-Nazis marching in Florida:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/09/19/neo-nazis-florida-maxwell/

"Republican Anti-Semitism: Jewish Space Lasers, Attacking George Soros, Neo-Nazis... "
https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/652f0cccca1d095d0bb7c802/Republican-Anti-Semitism-Jewish-Space-Lasers-Attacking-George-Soros-Neo-Nazis

reply

More pure deflection. You're just afraid to talk about Islamosupremacy and Jewish rights in the Muslim world. Your fear is palpable. Do you think that talking about censorship of books and Neo-Nazis marching in the U.S. somehow makes the issue of Israel go away? What bigger issue is there for Jews than the continued presence of millions of Jews in the land of Israel and their maintenance of a state in that land?

2 simple questions for you. 1) What should be done about the rampant Islamosupremacy in the Muslim world? 2) Do Jews have a right to equality in the Muslim world?

I would bet a billion dollars that you don't answer either of those questions and just respond with more deflection but no one on Earth would ever be dumb enough to take that bet.

reply

Thanks for your good reply!
I hardly read what Keelai writes anymore.
If it's not just a short provocation, it's confusing junk with zillions of links.
And if Keelai doesn't get anywhere with it, you'll be called a "liar". 😎​
https://moviechat.org/tt13062500/The-Walking-Dead-Daryl-Dixon/64fe6c03bcae84505a8413e3/Hmmmm-Season-1-Episode-1-?reply=65067ba4567da575d9250e9d

reply

"Death was a blessing..." I can't even imagine this level of grief while desperately trying to find a 'silver lining' https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/11/israel-father-reaction-daughter-killed-kibbutz-hamas-attack-clarissa-ward-dnt-nn-vpx.cnn My heart is so broken for this father!

reply