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EloraWood's Replies
I think the only way she could have stopped it would have been to surrender the city the day they had the meeting (and not kill any of Danys people, specially her best friend).
But if she would have rang the bells herself that day...Dany already saw red.
And I also disliked Cercei from the beginning on...I wanted her to die cruelly and be fearful etc that’s why I couldn’t believe it when I actually felt sorry for her.
I think it was because I realized my own bias towards Dany and how wrong I was in that. How we probably make decisions like that in RL all the time because we “know that person, know they are actually good” etc... people are complicated and, depending on the circumstances, capable of anything...and the show/books reflect this all of the time. Good people can do bad things and bad people good things (and are capable of loving etc).
Even though I was a Dany fan - I actually like this.
I was bias from the beginning on and purposely overlooked any of the warning signals because I 1) agreed with her viewpoints (freeing slaves, taking care of her people, wanting to rid us of Cercei)
2) really disliked who was ruling Westeros.
But they where definitely there.
I like how complicated the characters are.That with changes (feeling unwelcome, disrespected, losing closest friends and advisers etc) the “good” person can change and lose him/herself.
However, the pacing is definitely off for the show. Too much cramped into too few episodes. Would have come across better showing it and other stuff going on more gradually.
I actually kinda liked where it went. He went out the way he came into the world (well, they both did).
And in a way he did find redemption: he saved people, he found honor again...but he also excepted who is is. Good and bad. And as he said himself, he had a connection, addiction to Cercei and that’s where he went back to.
Yep - I don’t think there will be any explaining this away...
She’ll probably try - hopefully someone will get to her first.
I’ve been re-watching the series and actually, there have been signs of ruthlessness. Honestly, I have purposely been ignoring it - because I mostly agreed with her viewpoints (freeing the slaves, taking care of her people etc). Edit: and also because WE have seen how screwed up the people on the throne have been, but imagine they would have been good people, it would not have changed her plan, and we would have viewed her as the villain from the beginning on. Edit end.
But when you really think about it, she really has been shoving her point of view and her will on others... And with more power she gave people less choices.
I think the timing is off, too much cramped into too little episodes towards the end; but even though I really liked Dany, I am not upset at where this went. Devastated from a “being submerged in the story” kinda view, but not from a outside observer (if this makes sense). I like that this showed me my own bias, that it shows people as more than purely good or evil. That you can package someone as a beautiful person who had good intentions but who, with growing power and without other good people and advisors around gives in to personal hurt and goes down the wrong path.
If Jon would not have found out who he is, if her friends would not have died, if she would have felt more welcome and respected...I think this would have gone a different way.
For people with a goal, the line, the reasoning can easily be crossed if not careful. As she said...destroying everything with her reasoning, would help future generations...don’t have to care about the sacrifices of the now...
One more episode
Yes, but I bet that Tyrion is feeling very guilty now...got his friend killed for assuming that Dany goes mad and turns out he was right...
But Bran on the throne? That sounds so unlikely. He said himself that he was too far gone. But then I guess, the guy who can see and learn from the past; and see parts of the future...well... I guess?
Edit: actually...if he hadn’t done so many things he’s done, Dany wouldn’t have reacted the way she did. So I guess it makes sense that he did plan it all. His timing in telling Sam to tell Jon who he is etc... So Bran the master manipulator probably has seen all this already and knew how he could get to be King... can he make heirs? Or he just become a tree/ruler who lives for a few hundred years? Edit End.
Jon killing Dany I could see though.
Man...Dany should have stayed and be happy in the East...
Hmm I don’t know - in a past conversation with Dany he told her that he‘d be always honest with her even if she wouldn’t like what he‘d have to day. She told him that she‘d like that, but that if he‘d ever betray her, he‘d die... so he might become Dragonfood...
I agree with you on the „so called fan“ thing.
Nobody has the right to judge - there are people who say you are not a fan if you continue to like this show and it doesn’t do it justice, others say you are not a real fan if you are disappointed in where it went. Stupid...both can be fans and voice their opinion (but I agree with the OP that all the whining is annoying- there is a difference between constructive criticism and rantings).
But on your other point: It’s just 5 books, you can read them in a few weeks tops - and max 10 episodes per year. It’s not that much time invested unless you write the books or work on the show (or can’t stop thinking about it for 8 years straight).
There never is a guarantee that things will go the way we want them to go in series’s (books or TV) - best thing to do is to just move on to other books/shows if it gets that bad that you cannot enjoy it anymore.
I agree for the most part.
I mean, I don’t have a problem people discussing plots, or character changes, the episodes and creative differences etc - even voicing disappointments (personally, I also think it’s a shame that they rush everything now, but who knows, maybe they had to because of contracts, actors wanting to move on etc).
But continually whining? If I would start to dislike a show that much I’d just quit watching it.
And people saying that “they invested so much time into the books and show”... - WHAT? It’s five books...even if you are a slow reader and have a busy life, you can finish them in what - 1-2 month max? And with the show, it’s one episode per week for 7-10 weeks out of a year. So unless you wrote the books or worked on the show you don’t have “that much time invested”...
There are tons of really good (and finished) books/series out there... just move on
Now you are being a bit overdramatic, lol. I have most definitely read a bunch of books that where in more need of editing than Martins last two.
Personally, I don’t think that they where THAT bad. Bit dryer, splitting them the way he did was a mistake- but he himself said that he wasn’t going to try it that way again.
I don’t know why people make such a big deal out of it. It’s not perfect (show or the books) but they make for good entertainment.
If one is disappointed in the way it’s going, there are so many other good books (and other shows) out there...just move on to better things.
And sure, nothing wrong with discussing this one, but the way some people rant on about this...it’s not the end of the world lol
Supposedly he told them from the beginning on how he plans to end the books (wether they followed the same story line or not I’ll guess we won’t know until the books come out).
They bought a unfinished product and knew it - many other shows and movies did too, it’s not uncommon. And can’t blame Martin for excepting, that’s a lot of money and a chance to see his work on TV.
Many writers have rushed their series’ because of contracts or public pressure and the results where not very good - I’d rather find out what he’ll come out with his creativity having been left unchecked. I also don’t think that he owes us anything. When I picked up the first book I knew that it was not a stand alone book. That’s on me. Could wait till all of them are out before starting. I got what I paid for and that’s it.
She only said that he would die in Westeros - didn’t say it would be soon. So OP could get his wish, Varys rules and dies of very old age, as King, in Westeros. ;)
Unfortunately, not very likely, and he‘ll probably get roasted :(
You are probably right. I was just pointing it out. It could be mentioned this way simply to make people sure of one thing and have something else happen - then after they could say “hey...it didn’t say x in the prophecy, you just assumed it did hahahahaha”. :p
And the prophecies in the books- there are so many and you really have to read into them and not take the words literal (like the Sun rising in the west and setting in the east one/ Quentin Martell story etc). So I guess that’s why people point that out.
Personally, I don’t mind much one way or another.
The thing about the prophecy is that it said “the valonqar” not YOUR valonqar. So technically it would qualify anyone who is a younger brother of someone.
Hmmm I see what you are suggesting. The pack analogy would have been nice, that’s true.
Not just that, but character wise- they’d probably really be the first ones to just ride out in all their (thoughtless) bravery and hotheadedness’s, being all pumped just because they have flaming swords...
I don’t think anyone actually gave them the command.
And, while strategically dumb, it made the scene more tense.
I would have been scared to death seeing all the lights being snuffed out one by one and those, seemingly fearless warriors running back scared $&@;less.
Hmmm, you seem to think pretty highly of yourself- being the only one who can decide what a ‘real’ fan is like.
Soooo just to get this straight- if someone does NOT agree with your opinion- they are not a real fan? Right?
Hope for you and people around you that you are not that opinionated about everything and everyone :p
I think he was trying to make a point of why he thinks that Jon would make a better King (obviously also reasoning while being emotional) - he asked if it was him, if he would have killed them just because they didn’t bent the knee.
I also don’t think that he really thought his arguments through- he was emotional and just found out that his father (probably didn’t care THAT much) and his brother, whom he DID love got killed. So sounds pretty reasonable to me considering the circumstances.