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nauru-1's Replies
Yeah my sense is they will wait until close to season 3's release, especially so subscribers will still have new ST content on the horizon that you can't get anywhere else.
I do hope we get that release at some point. I want to be able to go back to Stranger Things without holding a Netflix account forever.
I could see a possessed Billy for sure, although it's not like he isn't already capable of terrible things. Doubt they would kill Max though.
The snowball is great, but I would argue season 1 had a much more complete ending in other ways. All the character arcs from the season wrapped up very neatly and the necessary time was taken to settle things down after the climax. Season 2, by comparison, had so many things going during the final act and then immediately jump forward a month later without some of those elements ever getting resolved or getting the proper breathing room. It'd be like instead of having the scene of Will in the hospital in season 1, we immediately went from El disappearing/Hopper resuscitating Will to them playing D&D.
1. Hang the DJ
2. USS Callister
3. Black Museum
4. Crocodile
5. Arkangel
6. Metalhead
There's way too many factors that go against this.
1. Stranger Things is a show that cares deeply about its characters and their journeys. Even if they were going to kill off Mike, that would be a whole season affair. That would mean Finn would be especially needed to be around in season 3, not the other way around.
2. He has two upcoming movie projects: The Turning and IT Chapter 2. His involvement for The Turning will be complete before they start shooting in April, and IT will only entail a secondary role in flashbacks.
3. He's likely contractually obligated to take projects that align with his schedule. Do you think he would give up on one of the biggest things in pop culture to do smaller things? Why does him busy have to mean anything other than that he knows he's able to handle doing both?
4. This all started with some clickbait sites looking for traffic, and there's nothing more to it. Why do these sources think they know things about the show when the creators themselves are still figuring those things out?
Season 1
The Conversion
The New Breed
Quality of Mercy
I, Robot
Valerie 23
Season 2
A Stitch in Time
Inconstant Moon
Vanishing Act
The Sentence
Trial by Fire
Season 3
Dead Man's Switch
Season 4
Final Exam
Mary 25
Season 5
The Haven
Tribunal
Season 6
Decompression
Season 7
Abduction
Replica
I can see the resemblance. He also played Otis on The Walking Dead.
I'm basing this point off of one of the panels where one of the Duffers said that they planned for El to die when they envisioned the show as a limited series. This plan would likely have changed by the time the show was greenlit by Netflix and by the time they had cast Millie Bobby Brown. I agree that El dying would be repetitive given what they've already done; likewise Will once again being the center of peril.
Regarding Bob, as much as the audience grew to like him, he's a secondary character. Even if his death had gone down the original way, I don't think it would impact the overall ethos of the show nearly as much as if you were to do something with one of the young leads. I don't think the show will necessarily shy away from killing off a core character as it draws to a close (as I said I would consider someone like Hopper as a tragic but fitting potential target given what it could mean for his arc), but at this point I'll be surprised if it entails one of the main kids. Given how Mike and El have been built up as depending on each other and sticking together, taking one of them away from the other in the final hours of the show would seem a nihilistic message. Of course we can never know anything for sure, but I don't get the sense the show projects to be that in the long run.
I agree the show doesn't need to generate drama between Mike and El to create conflict. There are plenty of outside forces they're going to have to deal with as it is.
As for where the show goes, I think it would be a pretty hard sell for the show to kill off El from this point on. When originally conceived as an 8-hour movie, El was basically the ET figure who had to go away to restore normalcy. Since, they've developed her as a human being, she's forged strong bonds, and her arc seems to be centered on reclaiming the normal life she never got to have. El dying would be a pretty hopeless ending for Hopper who has already lost a daughter, and would be especially devastating to Mike given he already went through a year of hell thinking similar thoughts. Stranger Things may very well have a bittersweet ending (I could see a Hopper sacrifice, for instance), but I'd be very surprised to to see it go as bleak as that.
I wasn't intending to suggest Mike calling out to El was without reason. I agree that seeing her at the window and sensing her presence nightly during her "visits" was a big part of his holding out hope. He had doubts if what he was experiencing was real, but he was experiencing it nonetheless.
By clinging to her memory, I'm more meaning he's left stuck thinking about what they had together then. He doesn't have closure, he's unable to move on, and he certainly doesn't get to know anything more about her. By contrast, El knows Mike is out there and continues to be able to see him in the void. Her feelings about Mike can continue to grow and develop, as she's learning more about him and creating new memories through hearing him call out to her. She may also dwell on their past time together and it may be tearing her apart just as much, but she also has the opportunity to foresee a future for them, no matter how out of reach that always seemed to be.
By the time they reunite, El knows quite a lot more about what Mike through in that year than he does about her. That in some ways to me brings their relationship to a more even field in terms of how they see each other.
I can definitely see how the dynamic could lead someone to having reservations, especially if being observed through the point of characters as real people rather than idealized figures.
I would argue it isn't just that the show has written them as an emerging couple, but also the circumstances by which the characters got there that makes the viability of their relationship more palatable. Both of them carry these experiences now that will always be a part of them and their bonds are part of that. So where I would stop short is in El having to gain a truly normal life first. After what they've gone through, I don't think that is something that can ever be expected, for either of them.
It also helps for me that Mike in terms of experience with "girls" is starting at zero himself. Of course for their relationship to advance, we would want the knowledge gap regarding what a relationship entails to become more balanced than it was. I think they made strides there in season 2 by virtue of El pondering her feelings for a year while gaining a better understanding about the world, while Mike is essentially static clinging to her memory.
It'll be interesting to see how they handle her being more out in the open. There's several factors I think could come into play. She'll have her work cut out for her in catching up her education, not to mention the social environment that high school would entail. Throw in having to keep her powers in check, keeping a low profile, and having a romantic relationship with Mike, and there's a lot of potential there.
I'm personally hoping to see more interactions between Mike and Hopper. They're the two most important people in her life and the history is complicated, with Mike's history with El even predating Hopper's. Not your conventional father-boyfriend situation.
I see what you mean with the "353 days" line. It's fairly melodramatic for someone typically lacking in social interaction. Someone once suggested this delivery was a product of the soap operas she's been watching, and I suppose it could be a leftover of the "El getting knowledge from TV" storyline they are on record as planning and not having room for. If that was actually intentional, I would have wanted them to make it clearer.
The other line doesn't bother me as much, mainly because I find the awkward delivery kind of fitting given it's a compound term she may be trying out for the first time aloud.
I know the examples you gave are from Duffer-directed episodes, but Millie has also mentioned the challenges she faced in keeping her character consistent with the directors other than Shawn Levy and the Duffer brothers. I personally thought the naivety of El isn't quite as apparent in those episodes (admittedly, it's mainly episode 7 as she's only in 5 for a little bit), and this could be a factor.
I think in a real life context, I suppose you could still cast some doubt on it. I didn't get that sense of doubt from Mike in that moment, but it's also possible given the writers had their snowball thing already planned they may not have given it much thought. But if not then, El going in for a kiss as they were saying goodbye would seem a pretty clear indication of how she feels.
My interpretation of that was she had already just been drained to the point of being barely conscious, and this final effort meant giving all she had left. When she wakes up in the Upside Down, she doesn't seem to me like someone who expected to be there. Rather, she's disoriented, a little panicked, and calling out for Mike. Her saying goodbye seems more like an assumption on her part and something they put in to give closure if the show wasn't coming back. It could also be a remnant of their original limited series idea where she died in this final standoff.
Probably not in season 3, but I think Hopper makes sense as a character death near the end of the series, possibly as a bold sacrifice to save El.
Any specific examples?
Yeah, how El was watching Mike is one of the only situations where you can make some of those lyrics legitimately work in a romantic context.
Also interesting how you point out how Mike may not have necessarily known how deep El had feelings for him as well. The fact that she admitted to listening to him speaking to her every night kind of put that to rest quickly.
I would argue her disappearance had nothing to do with her powers and more to do with what she was using the powers on. We know the demogorgon can create portals from the Upside Down, so it could stand to reason when it was being destroyed it created a temporary one that took Eleven just as it took Will in the shed in episode 1. The gate closing didn't lead her to disappear because it entailed removing the central portal, not creating one.
Best scene of hers in that show IMO was when she was blackmailing the businessman. Making obscene comments and gestures to make him uncomfortable, and then feigning an innocent persona to a witness to make him look like a predator. Yikes!