MovieChat Forums > Apostle (2018) Discussion > Odd Motivations...

Odd Motivations...

posted 4 years ago by Ace_Spade (9458)
5 replies | jump to latest

Throughout the film, a lot of the characters did things that seemed remarkably out of character...

Malcolm says he wants Thomas alive, but then almost kills Frank because he's trying to blow Thomas' head off.

Quinn takes over the cult really easily. The "police" and the villagers were loyal to Malcolm. They thought him a prophet and followed his book, but Quinn staggers out of one hut, bleeding from the neck, and just starts declaring Malcolm a traitor and they switch? More importantly, Malcolm doesn't try to sway them back...?

Thomas doesn't bash the bag-head's bagged head in when he has the chance. He just goes to cut down Jennifer right away.

I liked the movie overall, but there were a lot of weird twists and character motivations that prevented it from achieving its full potential.

There was a lot of cool stuff around the mysticism of the island, though. And Jeremy actually putting up a good fight against Quinn was boss.

[–] Wuchak (8290) 4 years ago

The first half is decent as a mysterious set-up with spectacular locations, but the second half devolved into half-baked wannabe-horror cheese with supposed-to-be-exciting torture scenes, not to mention bad flow, lack of consistency (as you point out) and zero finesse.

The brotherly power struggle was one of the things that felt inconsistent. Up to that point there was no indication that Quinn wasn't happy with his brother Malcolm's leadership with the cult on the island (unless I missed the hints). This struck me as abrupt and suggested clumsy scriptwriting.

It was like the director/writer (same person) needed more time to properly tell his story, but was pressured to keep the movie as close to 2 hours as possible and so awkwardly forced the footage in the second half together.

That said, the movie's provocative in some ways upon reflection, particularly its commentary on human-made hybrid religions and the potential for corruption & abuse thereof. So the ideas are good, it's just that the execution/editing/whatever in the second half was lousy and leaves a bad taste (or, at least, a dissatisfied taste).

[–] Drooch (5333) 3 years ago

Yeah Evans definitely needs a script doctor.

This could have been a fantastic mystery/mood piece with a devastating and surprising finale like The Wicker Man, and it was 50% there, but then Evans decides to cram in lots of extra underdeveloped subplots and clichéd boo scares and action.

The hero got lucky too many times - the grinding machine conveniently breaking, someone else getting rumbled as a fake just before he did, generally not being noticed as the obvious ‘culprit’ that he was.

When I watch a Tarantino film I’m always surprised, he constantly sets up expectations then subverts them and you never know what’s around the corner. Same with a David Lynch film - you have no idea what the next scene will be and it’s exhilarating. Hitchcock is always ten steps ahead of you, teasing your mind as it feels around in the dark for answers.

Evans needs to learn from these guys, and realise that the great filmmakers are more interested in cueing your imagination than explicitly showing you. He’s a genius action filmmaker but as a storyteller he’s still learning. I wish him well.

[–] Ace_Spade (9458) 3 years ago

I often wonder how certain things manage to sneak through. These scripts have to go through a writer, a director, an agent (usually), and at least one producer before getting greenlit and put into production. So when there are character inconsistencies and other hangups, it always seems odd to me that so many people missed so much detail.

The assumption I usually go to is that they greenlit the script, but the executives asked for changes, the demanded re-writes lost the plot a bit, and then the director and actors made further alterations while filming. Or maybe the throughlines get lost in the editing.

Still, Apostle was a good film, it was just a shame it couldn't be better.

The bar set by people like Hitchcock would be daunting. How many Hitchcocks are out there? Still, once somebody like that comes along and proves that those heights can be reached, subsequent filmmakers have an obligation to get close. On the other hand... I do respect that perfection is basically impossible, and I respect anybody who can get a film made at all. Getting things as good as Apostle was took several feats of skill and luck already.

I would definitely watch more films by Evans, and I hope that if I do he has grown.

[–] Drooch (5333) 3 years ago

My suspicion is that scripts need to prove they have enough ‘money shots’ to get greenlit, which means anything designed for adults (exempting the micro attention span stunted adolescents of today) doesn’t get through.

Back in the 90’s (and of course earlier decades) you could roll the dice and go see a film in the cinema, and you were guaranteed something thoughtful and interesting, a 6/10 minimum. Even popcorn entertainment like Jurassic Park had some brain-food as well as incredible craft and originality. Compare that to the bloated, brainless, crude CGI-filled sequels we get now.

There has been an objective decline in quality that starts to look like a deliberate dumbing down, possibly sawing off the edges so that movies can be peddled to the Chinese market.

We need young, talented filmmakers like Evans to do better. As I say, his action movies are exceptional but they’re little more than fight porn. Dude needs to learn how to tell a good story.

[–] Ace_Spade (9458) 3 years ago

Yeah, I think they look for selling points; "trailer lines" probably pop out. I mean, I'm sure that there are a lot of producers who are looking to make great art, but I think most of them are thinking (at least partially) in terms of "Can I sell this?" which doesn't mean "coherent plot" or "good writing" at all. What sorta kills me is that good writing wouldn't really cost a lot more. Just have any one of those nitpickers who write "pop culture podcasts" and they'll find out 90% of the plotholes. Great writers are out there. Why not have them go over the scripts?

Yeah, movies are taking a lot of hits for the sake of the Chinese market and universality; that's half the reason for the reduction of mainstream comedy releases and the glut of superhero films.