Mike x Eleven is cute but also makes me unconfortable - Stranger Things (2016) Discussion

[–] petepi3 7 years ago

You are coming across as Eleven's own mum would. Or dad. I think it's a very realistic kind of situation between the two young ones. Them having totally innocent but new and "different" feelings towards each other that they don't know how to really deal with I mean, not the story or Eleven's powers.

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[–] pmfg_pan 7 years ago

I think it's a very realistic kind of situation between the two young ones.

I think specially if we view the relationship from Eleven's point of view. Mike is by far the nicest person she has ever met and he happens to be a handsome boy her age. So given the unique circumstances of her life, it would actually be more surprising for her to not develop a crush on him.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

As far as Eleven moving in for the kiss, this definitely shows, that she too possesses the most basic instincts in human nature, that so far, Brenners influence has not been able to reach. We see examples like this many times over the course of her story. It's not only a cute moment, it's also very natural and an indication that Eleven is beginning to experience life for the first time.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

I wasn't quite sure what to make of the almost-kiss scene in light El seeming genuinely surprised at the concept in the cafeteria. I guess it has to come down to what you are saying about instinct, but I do wonder if El would have even initiated a conventional kiss in that moment or just was generally drawing herself close to Mike without knowing what exactly she was going to do.

As for the OP, while I can appreciate general concerns over someone like El being manipulated, I don't see any evidence in her relationship with Mike that would warrant it. Everyone is vulnerable at that age, as can be people much older than that. Mike may have knowledge that El doesn't, but he has no more experience. And if she was ever uncomfortable, she has the literal power to do something about it.

Additionally, when it comes to relationships, social norms can sometimes be as much as a hindrance as anything. For instance, El never thinks about Mike's hobbies or any awkwardness he might show, elements that might have kept him at a distance from the girls in his class. Instead, she sees his character and the compassion he shows toward her, qualities in him she innately grows to recognize. I'm not saying that El shouldn't be afforded a normal childhood, but El having to take a step away from the relationships she has made essentially denies the purity of those bonds.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

My interpretation of the scene is that Eleven is coming to life so to speak. Earlier Mike showed her genuine affection for saving him, and I'm sure that was a special moment for her. I guess I see it this way, Eleven is experiencing emotions that are new to her, and maybe not knowing why herself, she is instinctively acting on them. We also see that El has became self aware of her appearance when she asks Mike if she is still pretty. Whether or not she knew what she was going to do at that moment, I'm not sure, maybe we aren't meant to know due to Dustin's perfect timing.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

The whole 'still pretty' thing also pays off from two previous moments, namely El recognizing Nancy as pretty and Mike calling El pretty after putting on the wig and dress. El's concept of pretty up to this point has been defined by conventional qualities she feels she has lost, and Mike saying she is pretty to him anyway opens up a whole new world into how she feels about herself.

My interpretation is that she had already probably developed a crush on him, and this is why she was so concerned about looking pretty to him in that moment. She probably doesn't know what those feelings mean, but then Mike's supportive comments follow and I imagine that would be lead to an overwhelming flurry of positive emotions.

The later scene in the cafeteria, El doesn't understand where Mike is going with the conversation but she doesn't seem oblivious that there is something more to it. She is, after all, the one who prompts Mike to continue on after he feels defeated trying to explain. So I think it all fits in that El doesn't understand her feelings, certainly not enough to put them into context of what they are or know fully what to do with them, but they are there. With all that in mind, Mike kissing El doesn't feel like a moment just from his perspective that it otherwise could have, and instead becomes a mutually revelatory experience for the two of them.

When do you think this is the moment that El and Mike experience different feelings for each other? Though they have plenty of sweet moments, I always thought that scene where Mike opens about being bullied, and El understands, was a turning point.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

For Mike, I think the attraction was immediate. From the very beginning he is the only one that showed her kindness and understanding, he seemed to go out of his way to make her feel comfortable. Lucas and Dustin seemed to be more skeptical which would be a more natural response toward this mysterious new stranger.

For Eleven though, I think the attraction was more gradual, as she first needed to establish a trust between them given her situation. Later as she begins to feel more comfortable with Mike she is able to let her guard down and embrace the new emotions inside of her.

It's hard to pinpoint the exact moment for Eleven, I guess I would say when Mike hugs her for saving him, it's doubtful that anyone ever showed her that kind of affection without wanting something in return.

Great Post By The Way!!!

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

Thanks for the reply, I am enjoying this conversation as I don't get to discuss the characters in-depth with people very often!

I feel like Mike having immediate feelings for El would kind of take away from the sincerity of his initial kindness toward her. He definitely reacts differently than Dustin and Lucas do, but I feel that falls in line with the trope of the leader boy having certain instincts the others don't. There's not really anything in his behaviour in that first night that he couldn't have also shown if Eleven had been a boy (though perhaps he was more gentle knowing she is a girl), and until El told him not to, he had planned to tell his mom which would likely have entailed never seeing her again.

And of course, it is soon after from there that they have several bonding moments that start to bring them closer (the recliner, the closet/learning about promises, giving her his watch, the aforementioned scene about Mike being bullied). That last one was the first moment as a viewer where I thought there might be something more to it, especially when they share a smile. And then of course the "Pretty good" scene soon follows. I would agree that for El especially it doesn't all happen at once.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

I am enjoying the conversation also, I only wish I had more time to engage in these kind of discussions. When I have a few minutes I spend most of my time reading other boards, and since my time is limited I only post in a select few. Leon The Professional is my favorite film for discussion, but unfortunately that board is not very active here. I am very glad that we have Stranger Things though, and I believe this board will become more lively when Season Two comes around

The interaction between characters has always been my favorite aspect of any film, the more emotional the better. The idea of becoming so interested in a persons life, who doesn't really exist, is kinda magical in a way at least for me. I guess to lose oneself within the story, says the filmmakers did something right, unfortunately that is becoming more and more rare in today's Cinema.

Anyway getting back to the discussion, when the boys find Eleven in the woods, I don't know what it is, but there was something about that scene that made me think "Yea! Mike is definitely interested" I don't think I would describe it as Love at First Sight, but definitely a feeling kindred to that idea. As far as them realizing their feelings for one another, if I think about it, the scene where I mentioned Mike hugging Eleven for saving him, that could possibly be the moment that they both sensed the others true feelings. It's really hard for me to say with these two, but the almost kiss scene follows shortly after.

Eleven is so mysterious, she is really hard to figure out and I guess that's why she is my favorite character. Since she is my favorite character I think it's only appropriate to acknowledge "Millie "the young actress, who brought Eleven to life.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

I've always contended that, despite being a fan of the horror/thriller genre, the magic of the show is not the supernatural elements or the high-stakes adventure, but the bonds between the characters. I'm glad that the emotionality of the show has been reiterated as the core to the upcoming season in spite of the ramped-up horrors.

You are correct that Eleven remains somewhat mysterious, which certainly adds some charm and intrigue to the character. With that in mind, I think the best way to interpret what she is thinking is through her actions.

It might be revealing to look at the two instances in the first season where Mike gets upset with El. The first entails Mike running home after they find what they assume is Will's body. Interestingly, it is El who is reaching out to comfort Mike (the first time she ever initiates any physical contact), but his trust in her is compromised and he swats her away. In the follow-up scene, though El is back at the Wheeler house it is clear from Mike's perspective that his perception of El has been cast into doubt. He doesn't seem to even want her there, but El works to prove him wrong.

The second time is of course when El breaks up the fight and knocks Lucas unconscious. This time, when Mike gets upset El runs away. Obviously it is not exactly the same, as in this moment Lucas's well-being is in question as a result of direct action from El. However, I would also argue a lot has happened in the meantime between the two of them that has fundamentally changed how Mike and El feel about each other -- most notably, the scene where El gets dressed up. Mike is wide-eyed upon seeing her transformation, and El is obviously touched by his approval, echoing his commentary as she looks at herself in the mirror.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

Continued from above...

Now, return to the scene where El throws Lucas. While Mike's words are as harsh as the first time, he immediately regrets them and is devastated when she goes missing. From El's perspective, the words seem to sting a lot more. A lot of this has to do with her identity and self-worth that has begun to develop over the course of those days, and many of those feelings run through being the subject of Mike's affection. The next time we see El, she staring at herself in the water and tossing the wig aside, as if she has lost something she cared about deeply, with that thing clearly being in relation to Mike. In her eyes, the possibility of experiencing those good feelings she was starting to have, that would include friendship but an attachment probably more profound than that to Mike, has been destroyed because of who she is and always will be. I would argue the wig tossing shows her despair extends beyond losing only the kind interactions of friendship; it also includes a desire to be pretty in the eyes of Mike.

When Mike is later cleaning her up after the quarry events, those fears continue until Mike intervenes and tells her she doesn't need the hair to be pretty. That's the boost in self-worth she needed to express herself, but I sense since this scene plays heavily in relation to those others whatever she was feeling had already been manifesting.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

You bring up a very interesting point,several actually, but the one I am referring to is where you mention that maybe the best way to interpret what Eleven is thinking is through her actions. When I become really interested in a character, it's always related to their emotional behavior. What emotion are they experiencing at any given moment that steers their actions and reactions. I'm not sure if I'm doing a good job at explaining it, but I tend to try and interpret the emotion that triggers their reaction, if that makes sense.

The scene where Eleven throws Lucas and knocks him unconscious, I believe the first emotion she feels after this happens is fear because of what she did, but it quickly turns to anger when Mike scolded her and her reaction to the anger is to run away and hide. Later when she has had some alone time, those initial emotions turns to sadness which eventually leads to self pity.

When she sees her reflection in the water her sadness turns to self pity, because she thinks that without the wig she's not pretty and this leads to fear again. The fear would be that maybe Mike's affection for her is not for her true self. Self pity and fear leads to anger again and like before her reaction to the anger is to shatter her reflection.

What makes Eleven mysterious to me? I'm not sure. I guess that's why I say she is hard to figure out. Obviously her powers come to mind, and the fact that we know very little about her certainly plays a big part, but I think it has more to do with the little things as opposed to the obvious. We know that she is very vulnerable which is no doubt a reflection of her upbringing. She is also very quiet and shy, and we see examples of her kindness and compassion for others. When Eleven gets angry though, she can be very tenacious and this trait just doesn't fit among the rest that makes up her true nature.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

Continued from above<<<

I think it's obvious that her anger has been enhanced and stems largely from Brenners influence. I remember someone posted a statement a while back, they stated that Brenner managed to make a killer out of Eleven but not a murderer. I found that statement very interesting and it's true if you think about it, she only harms those that are trying to force her back into the Hell that she has had to endure for so long and despite the torment and abuse she is still more human than those who imprisoned her.

You mentioned that you enjoy having in depth discussions about the characters and you definitely have a keen eye for detail. Out of our conversations, I feel I know Eleven a little better now. Since I tend to try and understand Eleven through her emotions, she still remains somewhat a mystery and since her anger has been forced upon her, in essence it's not a true emotion.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

The thing with Eleven is that although she was horribly mistreated, she was not broken by it. Even before she used her powers on the bad men, she was still helplessly resisting being locked up. So while we do get to know her as gentle and kind, what she has also always seemed to possess is a fierce survival instinct. In that sense, she fits in perfectly with the boys.

Thus far, I don't think she has crossed a line where her anger and the actions she took were completely unjustified (even if the willingness to kill when she can incapacitate may raise some uncomfortable moral dilemmas). We haven't seen her intentionally use her powers to harm unless she or the people close to her are being threatened. Lucas being thrown did pose cause for concern, though I would argue that was borne out of fear for Mike's safety and an attempt to separate the two than an intent to hurt Lucas. It will be interesting if El being able to control her powers in an emotional situation, or her choice to invoke her powers, ever becomes an issue in the future.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

I agree, the mistreatment of her has only made her stronger by enhancing her emotional behavior, particularly her fear and anger. I think it's interesting that these two emotions appear to be directly related, in most cases it's her fear that triggers the anger.

I'm curious to know if Eleven's powers have reached their full potential, or will they become even stronger as she ages. At least for now she is able to assess the severity of the threats opposing her, if they become stronger she might lose that ability. Something else that might be interesting, I wonder if we might see a sample of her jealousy in the near future?

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

With her powers, even one error in judgment or heat-of-the-moment decision could prove tragic. I don't necessarily think Stranger Things would go so dark to have Eleven accidentally kill an innocent person or someone she cares about, but that would certainly create new territory to explore.

Jealousy is a really interesting angle to think about, because I can't imagine Eleven would look kindly on anything that comes between her and Mike. Would be a good test for how discerning Eleven is with using her powers. It could also be funny, with her friends trying to reel her in and not take any rash action!

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

As you mentioned we have come to know Eleven as being gentle and kind, and I don't think that we have been misled in that regard, but we might see a different side of her if jealousy comes into play. For now I think Mike only has eyes for Eleven and she for him, but there could be someone lurking in the background, seeking Mike's attention.

Of course I can only speculate, but I can see there being some friction between Eleven and the new girl, not necessarily in relation to Mike, but Eleven having difficulty trying to fit in with the groups social scene. As the boys themselves are considered to be geeks and outcasts, Eleven is even more so, and if they were to follow in the new girls footsteps they may tend to leave Eleven behind.

Max has been described as the new girl with a chip on her shoulder, if she and Eleven were to tangle, all I can say is Good Luck Max!!!

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

It is interesting to consider these thoughts in light of an interview the Duffers did at the Emmys (warning: vague spoilers ahead).

They talk about Eleven going through an emotional roller coaster, showing how she handles adolescence with the powers possesses. They also chose not to comment about romantic implications. From what I've heard, Mike is depressed with Eleven missing and is reluctant to have Max around, so I imagine it's not going to be something on his end.

My baseless theory is that Will is corrupted by the Upside Down which cause him to act in antagonistic ways, perhaps in an upsetting way between Mike and El's relationship.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

If Eleven's story is to continue sooner or later she'll have to start speaking more and I imagine that would lead to revealing things about herself. If this were so, sadness will surely play a big role as her story moves forward. Maybe they will reveal a side El that we haven't really seen yet. The feeling of Happiness would be a nice touch for her character, and what better way to end the Season than seeing Eleven at the Snow Ball?

You may be right about Will, he might blame El for his misfortunes and I'm sure this would cause friction between him and Mike, possibly causing Mike to have reluctant feelings where Eleven is concerned.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

It sounds like Eleven will speak more this time around, probably a level somewhere in between where she was and how the other kids communicate. Having her personality come out more verbally could really add a new dimension to her character. She may actually get to the point where she can articulate her own feelings.

I expect some highs and lows for her emotionally over the course of season 2, probably struggling to deal with being separated from Mike and company, and hopefully culminating in a joyful reunion at some point.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (73607) 7 years ago

Seemed kinda cute to me
They are both roughly 7th grade so...pretty innocent
And Mike seems like a good loyal kid
Plus Eleven could demolish him if she needed to...overall just cute/sillie kiddie stuff imo

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[–] ADHC (6) 7 years ago

I actually have the same concerns about their relationship. I think people are being a little too harsh because they don't want anyone to cast shade on their favorite couple, but there are definitely some problems with her being in so serious of a relationship with how naive she is about the world. I'm just not sure it's the best thing for eleven at this time given her upbringing, but I think they've kind of written the show in such a way that people would be really mad if Mike and Eleven don't stay together.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

I can definitely see how the dynamic could lead someone to having reservations, especially if being observed through the point of characters as real people rather than idealized figures.

I would argue it isn't just that the show has written them as an emerging couple, but also the circumstances by which the characters got there that makes the viability of their relationship more palatable. Both of them carry these experiences now that will always be a part of them and their bonds are part of that. So where I would stop short is in El having to gain a truly normal life first. After what they've gone through, I don't think that is something that can ever be expected, for either of them.

It also helps for me that Mike in terms of experience with "girls" is starting at zero himself. Of course for their relationship to advance, we would want the knowledge gap regarding what a relationship entails to become more balanced than it was. I think they made strides there in season 2 by virtue of El pondering her feelings for a year while gaining a better understanding about the world, while Mike is essentially static clinging to her memory.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

Mike saw Eleven through the window the night of the incident at the school. I'm sure one year later he wouldn't be entirely certain whether she was actually there, or he'd just seen what he wanted to see. He could sense her presence when she was watching him though. Like something in the corner of his eye, at the edge of his awareness. At some level he knew she was there. That daily interaction when he talked and she came to listen maintained the bond between them on both ends. I'm not sure he would have kept up those nightly radio messages if she'd died and was truly gone.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

I wasn't intending to suggest Mike calling out to El was without reason. I agree that seeing her at the window and sensing her presence nightly during her "visits" was a big part of his holding out hope. He had doubts if what he was experiencing was real, but he was experiencing it nonetheless.

By clinging to her memory, I'm more meaning he's left stuck thinking about what they had together then. He doesn't have closure, he's unable to move on, and he certainly doesn't get to know anything more about her. By contrast, El knows Mike is out there and continues to be able to see him in the void. Her feelings about Mike can continue to grow and develop, as she's learning more about him and creating new memories through hearing him call out to her. She may also dwell on their past time together and it may be tearing her apart just as much, but she also has the opportunity to foresee a future for them, no matter how out of reach that always seemed to be.

By the time they reunite, El knows quite a lot more about what Mike through in that year than he does about her. That in some ways to me brings their relationship to a more even field in terms of how they see each other.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

Mike and Eleven seemed to connect with each other almost from the moment they met. And while El may have had limited experience with the outside world she's also seen and done things most kids haven't. Including kill people (even though it was always in self-defense). So in some ways she's led a more sheltered existence than Mike. In other ways, a whole lot less.

It'll be interesting to see them interact in a more normal setting when they're not in constant danger, at least toward the beginning of the season. There's enough happening in the show that they don't need conflict between them to provide drama. Like a lot of fans I hope they let things work out between Mike and El, and give them a happy ending, although that certainly isn't a foregone conclusion. Not everyone will make it to the finish line - happy or otherwise. We won't know until the credits roll on the series finale.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

I agree the show doesn't need to generate drama between Mike and El to create conflict. There are plenty of outside forces they're going to have to deal with as it is.

As for where the show goes, I think it would be a pretty hard sell for the show to kill off El from this point on. When originally conceived as an 8-hour movie, El was basically the ET figure who had to go away to restore normalcy. Since, they've developed her as a human being, she's forged strong bonds, and her arc seems to be centered on reclaiming the normal life she never got to have. El dying would be a pretty hopeless ending for Hopper who has already lost a daughter, and would be especially devastating to Mike given he already went through a year of hell thinking similar thoughts. Stranger Things may very well have a bittersweet ending (I could see a Hopper sacrifice, for instance), but I'd be very surprised to to see it go as bleak as that.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

Actually, I don't think Matt and Ross Duffer ever wanted Eleven to die in season 1. I'm not sure how much of the larger tale was already floating around in their heads from day one and how much was crafted after the show became a runaway hit. But they did have some clue where the story would go if they got a chance to continue. Since they weren't sure whether a second season would happen, they did a finale that could serve as its conclusion - or be a launching off point for season 2.

Having Eleven die would be like retreading old ground. Even though she didn't actually die the first time around. As would splitting up her and Mike, or holding Will's life in the balance again. From what they've been saying about Billy's role next season he may very well kill someone. I could see him going after Max or Lucas, for example, and one of the older characters - Jonathan, Nancy, or Steve - getting killed instead because they intervened. The saddest ending I can envision them inflicting on Mike and Eleven near the end of the series would be Eleven holding Mike as he dies. The original plan for Bob was to have him stabbed to death by Will, so don't bet too much money on the Duffers avoiding bleak. We don't know what's going to happen.

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[–] nauru-1 (160) 7 years ago

I'm basing this point off of one of the panels where one of the Duffers said that they planned for El to die when they envisioned the show as a limited series. This plan would likely have changed by the time the show was greenlit by Netflix and by the time they had cast Millie Bobby Brown. I agree that El dying would be repetitive given what they've already done; likewise Will once again being the center of peril.

Regarding Bob, as much as the audience grew to like him, he's a secondary character. Even if his death had gone down the original way, I don't think it would impact the overall ethos of the show nearly as much as if you were to do something with one of the young leads. I don't think the show will necessarily shy away from killing off a core character as it draws to a close (as I said I would consider someone like Hopper as a tragic but fitting potential target given what it could mean for his arc), but at this point I'll be surprised if it entails one of the main kids. Given how Mike and El have been built up as depending on each other and sticking together, taking one of them away from the other in the final hours of the show would seem a nihilistic message. Of course we can never know anything for sure, but I don't get the sense the show projects to be that in the long run.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

I don't think they'll do it either, that would truly suck. I'm just saying they could. And Bob's death by Will's hand would've had an emotional impact, more because of what it meant for Will than for the loss of a character who would have had only the most token amount of screen time (it was supposed to happen in episode 4 as I recall).

That kind of violence is always more shocking when perpetrated by a kid. But he would've remembered the whole thing - so even if Hopper managed to cover up the crime, it would have had serious long term consequences for poor Will. Maybe that's one of the reasons they didn't do it. They figured after two seasons of constant duress it was time to let him off the hook. Not have him spend season 3 struggling with what he did while he wasn't quite himself.

So far only peripheral characters have actually been killed off, like Barb and Bob (first names that start with b are very unlucky in Hawkins). We got to know Bob just well enough to start liking him so his death would affect us. Barb, other than her importance in motivating Nancy, was basically a red shirt they sacrificed to show us how much danger Will was in. Non-peripheral characters will be lost at some point though, whether next season or the following one during the final showdown with the Mind Flayer.

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[–] Bowilly (171) 7 years ago

I think Mike and Eleven’s story will continue to be very innocent, but I think we are going to find that their love for one another will play an emotional role and have a major impact on the final chapter.

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[–] Burk48917 (11113) 7 years ago

A lot of people have had sex when they were 13,and I don't think they are even close to going that far.

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