MovieChat Forums > Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018) Discussion > Space is a men's universe, period.

Space is a men's universe, period.


Don't get me wrong, I love watching women in movies. But there are too many females in these new SW films, particularly in Solo, and they don't fit in.
Qi'ra, I'm ok, kind of Leia ambiguous counterpart.
L3, why not a female robot, but why make her a feminist and "robotist" SJW ? That's awful.
Enfys Nest, that's absolutely non believable SJW shit. They had her talking with that fake electronic voice for no reason since the begining of the movie, just to have that shitty "OMG he's a she" moment at the end.
All this ruined an otherwise quite decent film for me.

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There were only 3 lady characters in the whole show. L337 was a robot not a lady. You can't self-identify as a lady if you don't have the parts, right? They shouldn't have had L337 in the film at all for a bunch of reasons, but that's a whole other topic. If you liked Qi'ra, then the only problem you had was with Memphis Slim or whatever the hell her name was. You didn't mention Thandie Newton's character so does that mean you were OK with that? Thandie, Empty Nest, and L337 were only in it for 15 minutes total anyway. Even Qi'ra was off-screen for significant periods.

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My dear fellow, in our SJW LGBTQ world of today, you can identify as absolutely what you want.
I forgot Thandie Newton because she has very little screen time, but yeah that confirms my point :)

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I have a problem with L337, but it's not that she is a female (which she isn't, not matter what Jon Kasdan thinks) but how she is being presented. I blame the writer, though, not women in general. I'm not saying Kathleen Kennedy doesn't have some serious attitude problems with men that bleed over into the films, because she does. Still, I don't entirely accept your point about women, or that they somehow automatically "ruin" a Star Wars film by their very presence. I liked Jyn Erso, in Rogue One, and I mostly liked two of the three ACTUAL women in Solo. That's actually only one more women than Star Wars, which only had two women, Leia (major role) and Aunt Beru (minor role) . Are you saying adding one or two more women per film ruins them? Empty Nest (whatever) wasn't great casting, I'll grant you that, but it could just have easily been a scrawny dude under the helmet. Would that have been equally as problematic? See we have a problem here, if Star Wars is saying there is only one plucky and brave woman in the entire galaxy (Leia) that seems unbelievable because the population sample is simply too big for that to be true in any galaxy. It would also be unbelievable if there were no evil female characters in Star Wars, which we haven't really gotten so far in the movies, but we did somewhat in the Clone Wars show. All I can really think of as far as evil women are Zam Wessel the assassin from Attack of the Clones and Captain Phasma from TFA. Both barely have screen time. Zam Wessel is interesting enough but Phasma is made to be an incredibly weak character, but is that the fault of women in general or the male writers who created her? I get what people are saying about artificially inflated female representation. It was a huge mistake to show the Resistance being led almost exclusively by women in TLJ. For the most part, though, the problem seems more how specific characters are presented (especially Rey and Holdo) than the actual number of females per film.

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[deleted]

Thanks for this clever answer.

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I see your point, but Starwars has never been sci-fi... it has always been space-fantasy... It has more in common with the ring lord movies and such D&D type daydreams than it does with 2001, or Andromeda Strain and such...

These older-children, pre-teen/young-teen fantasy type genres are hyper-masculine, not in a sexual sense, but in their nerdy (I mean this as description, not as judgment) and obsessive adherence to rules of the fictional 'world' in question... In fact, they tend to be de-sexualised and non-sensual. I use the word hyper-masculine as a descriptor because it is older boys and very young men who tend to obsess about this almost exclusively... Rarely are girls or women this committed to know and adhere to the details and minutia of such a fictional world, it's structure and timelines, it's chronology and it's physics and rules of magic and 'forces'...

This kind of ever-boy, never-man, genre has been cultivated over the decades by hollywood as it has become a dominant force in popular culture, having become mainstream* with the rise of Superhero and franchise filmmaking. Now that dork culture and nerd culture (again, describing, not judging) are not only mainstream, but the dominant culture it faces the pressure all dominant culture in the US has faced... To be more inclusive and more open to women and such... It is only natural from a cultural point of view, but even moreso from a capitalist and corporate point of view as these mega corporations seek to monetise these brands further, now that they are mainstream...

That they haven't done so in a subtle and nuanced manner should be no surprise to anyone.

* I'd imagine that 20 years ago it would raise eyebrows if someone decided to discuss dragon ladies or superheros at a dinner party, or over cocktails. Today, you have to know Throne Game references in order to get some of the jokes that are made in corporate offices or in political and legal circles... Dork has become mainstream.

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agree on the ridiculous prometheus reference regarding people 'playing' with dangerous looking and acting alien lifeforms ... takes you right out of the movie with how absurd that is.

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And yet, Leia is the only character in Star Wars with real intelligence and leadership ability.

Oh, except maybe for her mother, the Queen and Senator.

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I think even Leia was depicted as a loser and a chump in the sequel trilogy, the only difference being that Kathleen Kennedy seems totally oblivious to the fact Leia MUST be at least partly to blame for the events that transpired between the trilogies. If we accept the total collapse of the Republic, the rise of the First Order, and the turning of Leia's own son to the dark side as canon (which I don't), then logically as a top leader, general and mother of Kylo she MUST take a share of the blame along with Han and Luke. Yet, it is ONLY Han and Luke who must "redeem" themselves and throw their lives away...but not her, for some reason. If women and men are equal, then women should get equal praise when the succeed and equal blame when they fail.

And while were on the subject of Leia's incompetence, the fact is her plan in TLJ is nonsensical. How does this make sense?: (1) leading the entire remnants of the Republic/"Resistance" (whatever) on a wagon train in which they are being picked off like flies (2) to some distant salt planet with a few beat up old salt mining vehicles (I guess, I still don't know why they were kicking up the red dust) (3) in order to send out a distress call inviting everyone in the galaxy to immediately drop what they are doing and make a last stand on an obscure salt planet in order to protect literally two dozen people from being killed (4) and then act shocked and surprised when nobody shows up.

On the other hand, nothing anyone else in the "Resistance" does makes any sense either. Poe blows half the fleet on an empty phyrric victory against a dreadnaught which he says is a "fleet killer", and yet the First Order manages to easily wipe out nearly every single ship by the end of the movie anyway even without the dreadnaught. Then, Poe approves of a "plan" by Rose and Finn (with only less than a day of fuel left) to go off to some planet and find a "code breaker" (who for some reason Maz Kanata won't even divulge the name of), convince the code-breaker to join them, then race all the way back and inflitrate a Star Destroyer and um.. do something about some "tracker" or whatever... all in about a day. Huh? Why didn't Leia simply split the fleet up and send them in different directions (to some neutral planets, say), to regroup and organize a counter-attack, and then arrange to meet at some rendezvous point to make a stand somewhere that was actually strategically important?

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Tl;dr.

Brevity is a virtue.

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Well there you have it christomacin: take the time to write out a thoughtful reply to someone and all they can do is reply with snark.

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I know, right. Three brief paragraphs is such a burden to read...wow.

I have no idea why people think I care whether they read my post or not. If someone can't be bothered to read my ideas and give me feedback then they're worthless to me.

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