and Hollywood's fat female phobia continues.... - The Martian (2015) Discussion

rather than bitchin it hear, go out and jog, fattie

Werd 2 ur mudda, bruddafckka

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[–] Jupiter555555 9 years ago

rather than bitchin it hear, go out and jog, fattie

I did 3 miles today at the gym and the lateral raise (3 sets, 18 reps.)

This is a regular occurrence for me.

Still not as skinny as all 4 women in the movie.

I'd have to hurt myself to be that skinny, and I'm unwilling to hurt myself.

What a bizarre assumption so many make... if I'm 155 pounds and angry at Hollywood's beauty standards, I must not work out at all... 

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[–] mikeyflatley 9 years ago

But ur still fat so keep joggin

Werd 2 ur mudda, bruddafckka

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[–] Jupiter555555 8 years ago

But ur still fat so keep joggin

I actually like my body and think it's a shame it's underrepresented in the media.

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[–] mikeyflatley 8 years ago

U need a big round pin dat sez "Fat and Proud of it"

Werd 2 ur mudda, bruddafckka

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[–] Jupiter555555 8 years ago

U need a big round pin dat sez "Fat and Proud of it"

Sounds good...and you need one that says "illiterate and proud of it"

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[–] popeyesucks 9 years ago

The OP sounds like a fan of Anita Sarkeesian/Full McIntosh, Zoe Quinn, Leigh Alexander, Adria Richards and the rest of the Social Justice Warriors described in the following film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4132084/.

Benoit killed 2x as many w/o a gun than Belcher did with one/S&W fighting climate change since 1852

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[–] LionInWinter 9 years ago

Or, you know, he cares about Vicky and doesn't want her to die? How this has anything to do with sexism is beyond me.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] LionInWinter 9 years ago

How dare admirable women with high functions and importance have physical health!!! It's almost like they're supposed to be role models or something!

I mean, one of the women was even a PR manager. You really think they let ugly fat people do PR? The other 2 have high functions that generally require not being a hippopotamus to get the job, it's not fair but it IS actually realistic. But I don't get how characters we're supposed to look up to being physically healthy is a bad thing. If anything, complain about their pretty faces, people can't help that and it's a far more common and irrational form of discrimination. Maybe they're too skinny to be healthy, and then you'd have a point, but that didn't seem to be the case at all (no, their faces weren't "emaciated" you hyperbolic fool, if you think that's emaciated then I wonder what kind of obese Orangutan you resemble). Not to mention most men in the movie looked pretty handsome as well, with maybe one or 2 exceptions. Hell, even the nerdy programmer with bad personal hygiene was played by a handsome guy (Donald Glover), is that sexist as well then?

And saying this movie is sexist because they show astronauts exercizing is about as dumb as saying it's sexist against men because they showed Matt Damon naked at one point. Those things are circumstantial and enhance the realism, and given how Ridley Scott tends to treat women in his films it probably could have just as easily been men exercising there. And that in turn would probably have been interpreted as "The men are exercising and the women aren't? Can women not sport just as well as men? This is totally enabling macho men behavior and saying women are objects who can't physically do a job as well as men OMG sexism!!!!!" by some idiot like you grasping for straws as well.

You also call Chiwitel out of shape, which is more sexist than anything in this movie. I can't believe you can complain about unrealistic body standards but also say Chiwitel could lose a few pounds in the very same post, how you miss that glaring hypocrisy is beyond me.

Also Matt Damon DID lose weight for this role, and a body double was also used. So you're wrong again.

Also, old women over 60 (the age of Jeff Daniels) get roles regardless of their physical shape all the time, and young men usually need to be handsome too. I admit it's still a bigger issue with women, but it's just not the case in this movie.

So congratulations, nothing you said made any sense.

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[–] Jupiter555555 9 years ago

Oh so it's not important for men to be "role models"?? lol

Also I wouldn't call being skin and bones "role model" status. They could put on 25 pounds and still be healthy, probably healthier.

What you said about women working out and men not was garbage but just for arguments sake, if they were worried about that being said that problem could've been solved in a number of other resolutions: showing a male running on the treadmill next to her, having no one working out, splitting the two treadmill scenes and having one male and the other scene a female. But instead they very transparently showed two women running for exercise in two separate scenes. The subliminal messages are so embedded into your psyche you don't even notice it anymore.

For instance-- thinking women are either emaciated (what you call "healthy") or "hippopotamuses" with no in between ... You're such a product of the brainwashing media.

As for calling men out on being out of shape, I'm merely holding men to the same standard women are held to.

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[–] teal123 9 years ago

No, no, you have it all wrong. I for one am DEEPLY offended we don't see more overweight disabled depressed black muslim refugee marxist vegan environmentalist trans women with peanut allergies in film.

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[–] nveleven 9 years ago

Right?
Man, I am all for equal rights, but fat people demanding their own spotlight too? At least skin color, sex, & sexuality are innate. I can totally understand these groups demanding to be represented in pop culture/mass media. But some lazy, gluttonous sack of *beep* now gets to sit on his worn-in couch, and demand that his brethren at the troth be given starring roles bc of 'fairness'.
Get the *beep* out of here. Staying fit is hard work, and our species would not have survived without comprehensive fitness regimens.
Overweight (and religious) people are an embarrassment to the ecosystem.

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[–] teal123 9 years ago

Ouch! I think maybe that is a little bit harsh and demonstrates a lack of empathy & compassion toward those who just for whatever reason end up with a few extra pounds on their persons, eg women who have had a baby or people who are very stressed and busy with jobs and kids etc or people who have a medical condition that makes it hard to exercise while overstimulating appetite etc. Nobody wants to be overweight, but the availability of cheap convenient high calorie foods as opposed to expensive inconvenient healthy foods along with busy lives conspire together to make the average person a little chubby.

But that's besides the point, I made my snarky remark because I was just annoyed by the OP for choosing this movie to fight her crusade, just not the right target, and it's attacks like this that give their cause a bad name.

I am fully sympathetic to what the OP is saying, as a matter of fact when I saw Michael Pena it immediately occurred to me that he did not look astronaut-y as he was a little bit more chubby than I think an astronaut who had been in space for a year would be. It's fully accurate to show the other astronauts as being very fit and very thin. Spaceflight is not exactly the healthiest of activities and people would lose a lot of weight, the crew would be exercising for many hours per day in order to counter the bone density loss. The artificial gravity centrifuge would not provide enough to prevent that. The people on the ISS are constantly exercising.

This movie is not the right target for a SJW because it's about unusually exceptional people. It's not a romantic comedy in Somewhere, America where you would expect the people to look like people.

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[–] Jupiter555555 9 years ago

when I saw Michael Pena it immediately occurred to me that he did not look astronaut-y as he was a little bit more chubby than I think an astronaut who had been in space for a year would be.

That's exactly the point, though. Not so much the treatment of women in Hollywood, but the fact that it is absolutely in-your-face-defiantly spared on men. It's extremely frustrating.

This isn't about my "people" being represented, by the way. I couldn't care less about that. It's about ME, as a human being, having a fair shot at becoming employed in my chosen industry. Yes, I'm an actress..and no, you've never heard of me. Maybe it's a far-fetched "dream" to begin with, but I'd at least like a chance..and I'd hate to have the extra 20 pounds (yes, that's all,) be the reason I keep getting turned down for major roles. Or any speaking roles.

Yes, you betcha I'm bitter that male entertainers get to have desert while I know for a fact their female counterparts don't. Is it petty first world problems? Sure! But I bet you are irked by a few of those yourself ;-)

A lot of women in the entertainment industry have trouble conceiving. This should be a major clue that the demands on women are not only unfair but damaging and unreasonable. I'd like more people to take a stand and maybe Hollywood will change its practices.

I do also believe there may be a real-world impact on it, too. That is women in real life feeling pressure to look a certain way that men are spared, in general. Although in all fairness, most men I know feel the need or desire to work out so he somewhat resembles the Hollywood studs...but it's not nearly as prevalent. The subliminal messages that the media sends us about what size a woman is "supposed" to be (think: Kelly Ripa next to Regis Philbin,) are endless.

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[–] Amalthea_Last_Unicorn 9 years ago

I do also believe there may be a real-world impact on it, too. That is women in real life feeling pressure to look a certain way that men are spared, in general. Although in all fairness, most men I know feel the need or desire to work out so he somewhat resembles the Hollywood studs...but it's not nearly as prevalent. The subliminal messages that the media sends us about what size a woman is "supposed" to be (think: Kelly Ripa next to Regis Philbin,) are endless.

The pressure to be skinny, as a woman, isn't even being pushed on by males, but by other women.
I firmly believe that reason why you see skinny-angular women being cast as models and actresses is because they seem less threatening to their target female buyers. Like Victoria Secrets, it's primarily fueled by women; you don't see VS women with the bodies of Selma Hayek and Katy Perry, they pretty much all look like boys with push-up bras.
This isn't even a "new" thing either; I read that back in the 70's, Cher was allowed to show her belly-button on TV because her skinny frame wasn't deemed as "sexual"

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[–] ChiaroscuroJean 9 years ago

Most directors in Hollywood are male, by far, so yes, it is the men pushing it on women.

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[–] mephistopheles93 9 years ago

It's about ME, as a human being, having a fair shot at becoming employed in my chosen industry. Yes, I'm an actress..and no, you've never heard of me. Maybe it's a far-fetched "dream" to begin with, but I'd at least like a chance..and I'd hate to have the extra 20 pounds (yes, that's all,) be the reason I keep getting turned down for major roles. Or any speaking roles.

If you spent half as much time on the treadmill as you did playing the victim card on IMDB (probably stuffing your face with a cinnabun) this would be a moot point. I get the impression that you keep those 20lbs on as a crutch. That way when you don't get a part you can tell yourself it has nothing to do with your *beep* acting skills. It's because the casting agent discriminates against fat chicks. Enough with the pity party.

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[–] Jupiter555555 8 years ago

Maybe so, but I'd rather fail taking a stand than succeed by giving in. I don't think I need to lose 20 pounds and so I won't spend that extra time on the treadmill. Thanks for your attempted coersion though. I'm sure if every woman adhered to your strict beauty standards you'd be content.

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[–] teal123 9 years ago

That's exactly the point, though. Not so much the treatment of women in Hollywood, but the fact that it is absolutely in-your-face-defiantly spared on men. It's extremely frustrating.

I can understand that, you're right, if the out-of-place chubby astronaut had been one of the women then the movie would have been panned. There is no question about that.

I think however that your ire is misdirected. "Hollywood" acts rationally when making casting choices, they are giving the public what it wants. So I think coming on a board like this and complaining to people who are excited about the movie just kind of comes off as trolling. It's just not the time and place. Sadly I cannot offer any ideas of what a good tactic would be for changing minds on this, but I do know that a thread like this comes off sort of like a PETA protest at a wedding where the meal choices include meat. Regardless of the validity of the message, just not the time or place, people will be very upset to have the wedding disturbed and develop a very negative association with the cause.

Sorry to hear about the troubles you have as an actress, I can understand how frustrating that must be. Maybe you do better in more cerebral films where audiences aren't as shallow and actors who look like real people are more appropriate. Sadly though it seems that maximal aesthetic quality is part of the job description for being a Hollywood actor and indeed the standards are impossibly high for women. For some perspective though, think maybe there are actresses who for instance have a lazy eye who are equally frustrated for losing out on roles to you, even though they have the same talent. It's not fair, but it's a differentiator. You get the role and they don't because audiences won't like the eye so you benefit from that even if you don't realize it. In any case, good luck :-)

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[–] Jupiter555555 9 years ago

I think however that your ire is misdirected. "Hollywood" acts rationally when making casting choices, they are giving the public what it wants. So I think coming on a board like this and complaining to people who are excited about the movie just kind of comes off as trolling. It's just not the time and place

Isn't that the problem though? If Hollywood aims to give the public what it wants, as you claim, then surely there's no problem in me letting them know what I want ... how else can I or anyone make their preferences known if expressing certain opinions is viewed upon as "trolling"? I think trolling is just a word people invented to try and discredit opinions they'd rather weren't given merit.

Sadly I cannot offer any ideas of what a good tactic would be for changing minds on this, but I do know that a thread like this comes off sort of like a PETA protest at a wedding where the meal choices include meat.

Ironic that you would acknowledge Hollywood is giving the public what it wants while within the same post try to take a voice away. I count too. I don't want to see higher standards imposed upon women than on men, and women given fewer speaking roles and lesser pay for equal billing to boot. You seem to be satisfied with the status quo and aim to silence those who disagree with it. I'm not interested in playing by those rules.

Regardless of the validity of the message, just not the time or place, people will be very upset to have the wedding disturbed and develop a very negative association with the cause.

Except this isn't a wedding. This is an IMDB message board, analogy or not, it's a poor comparison. I'd never ruin something as important as someone's wedding. A better analogy may be the Oscar party should this film win best picture. It would come across as sour for me to rain on their parade. I can't promise I wouldn't do that if given the opportunity (haha) but posting on IMDB doesn't come close. IMDB isn't just for fans, it's for discussion. The good, the bad and the ugly. Censorship doesn't' really have a place here, at least not censorship so drastic that I shouldn't express displeasure with emaciated women standing next to plump, well fed men.

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[–] nveleven 9 years ago

Agree to disagree, I guess.
To clarify, I'm not referencing people with a few extra pounds. I'm referencing those who demand that gluttons (euphemised as 'plus-sized' to do exactly what you're doing, which is tip-toeing around the issue to be 'empathetic' & 'compassionate') get special consideration for roles over healthy people.
Travel around the world for months each year as I do. Go to Cambodia where 70 year olds have the bodies of Brad Pitt circa fight club. Go to Okinowa where people live longer than anywhere in the world. 97th birthdays are highly common. Can you imagine? You think these people aren't busy with kids, jobs, stress, etc...? Please. They're tough mother *beep* And the idea that eating healthy is too expensive is propaganda spread by the very industry who's most content with you believing (and espousing) that notion. I see farmers markets and farm-to-market restaurants popping up everywhere that the people are demanding them.
We vote with our credit cards. And anyone who lacks the common sense to take heed of the generation before them on Hoverrounds & dialysis centers everywhere, needs to have his/her head examined. It's not about looking a certain way, it's about being healthy. And I'm sorry, but obese people demanding that they be given some kind of affirmative action in Hollywood is nonsense. Listening to healthy astronauts breathing on Mars is hard enough.
I'll ask you to consider this: when is the last time you've seen an elderly obese person? There's a reason they don't exist. This country needs to quit coddling people, and wake up the very posterity of this nation. Promote mental & physical fitness. The obese will either come around, or die off. It's their choice either way

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[–] ZaZeus 9 years ago

That mission control girl seemed a perfectly normal weight to me.

Clearly Wiig was cast in that role specifically. She's naturally skinny.

The rest of the women in the cast were astronauts who are supposed to be in top physical condition.

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[–] Jupiter555555 9 years ago

That mission control girl seemed a perfectly normal weight to me.

"normal"? You can honestly tell me that most women you encounter *in real life* look like her from the neck down? I'd love for you to look me in the eye and say that. Do you live in Orange County??

The rest of the women in the cast were astronauts who are supposed to be in top physical condition.

Well Michael Pena, another "astronaut", was looking a little plump for NASA standards... how do you explain that?

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[–] ZaZeus 9 years ago

I actually do live on the border of Orange County and LA, and plastic surgery jokes aside, people do :gasp: take care of their bodies. The same can be said for when I lived in New York. It's not "normal" to become complacent eating junk food, never exercising, and just overall not giving a damn about your health other than what pills the doctor says you should be on. And yeah, Michsel Pena was definitely the least physically fit out of the bunch, but he was clearly cast for his comedic abilities in this instance. At the same time, he's no Melissa McCarthy, and you'd have to be insane to think they'd cast someone as heavy as her as an astronaut in a serious-minded film. Maybe they could have cast someone heavier than Mackenzie Davis for her role because weight doesn't matter regarding a part like that, but she's also a talented actress who I'm sure very much deserved to get that part; they're not gonna turn down talent to fulfill a PC quote concerning body weight.

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[–] Jupiter555555 8 years ago

I actually do live on the border of Orange County and LA,

Do I know my internet trolls or what... 

and plastic surgery jokes aside

Why? Would that disqualify you to know what natural women look like? 

people do :gasp: take care of their bodies.

That's debatable. I don't think pumping your face with toxics and putting plastic in your body is taking care of yourself. Newsflash: just because something looks good (to you) doesn't make it healthy, and just because someone doesn't look good in your opinion doesn't make them unhealthy. Probably the biggest misconception you've apparently been exposed to living in LA-LA land (where reality takes a break,) is that someone who doesn't look like a Hollywood actress is automatically "unhealthy." You people can't seem to handle the fact that humans come in different sizes and shapes, a plethora of which are actually healthy. I'm not saying the chick from the TLC show (Whitney: https://www.google.com/search?q=whitney+tlc&biw=1366&bih=641&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ177s44LNAhUNdlIKHYWPD1EQ_AUIBygC&dpr=1 is anything we should aspire to, that's clearly unhealthy...but you seem to think that 15 pounds or two dress sizes up [gasp!] from Jessica Chastain would be a health crisis. You're brainwashed.
In fact, if anything is unhealthy, it's the obsession that you Orange County people have over your physical appearances. There's more to life 

It's not "normal" to become complacent eating junk food, never exercising, and just overall not giving a damn about your health other than what pills the doctor says you should be on.

There is an in between, you know..... Somewhere between Jessica Chastain and Whitney from TLC... Moderation isn't really a concept you guys practice out there is it... 

And yeah, Michsel Pena was definitely the least physically fit out of the bunch, but he was clearly cast for his comedic abilities in this instance.

Oh and there's no physically fit male comedians? Or physically comparable female comediennes? Just not sure why the female comedienne present in the cast is Kristen Wiig and the male comic has to be physically unfit?

At the same time, he's no Melissa McCarthy, and you'd have to be insane to think they'd cast someone as heavy as her as an astronaut in a serious-minded film.

Again, not what I was suggesting. There is an in between, my goodness....  it's like talking to a brick wall...

they're not gonna turn down talent to fulfill a PC quote concerning body weight.

..and you honestly don't think they ever turn down talent to fulfill some bogus double standard in casting that people have yet to logically explain? Talent comes in a size 8, 10 and 12 too.

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[–] ZaZeus 8 years ago

??? Firstly, I'm not from LA, I've moved here recently, so I'm not some born and bred plastic person like you may be suggesting. I'm likewise not a fan of plastic surgery and I don't think people who get all kinds of surgeries and injections are better looking, in fact they typically make themselves look worse and ridiculous (but again, I said I live near LA so I MUST love it all!) Secondly, on a daily basis I see a plethora of people of all different body types exercising in one way or another on the beach across the street from my apartment. When I talk about people taking care of themselves, I mean eating right and exercising no matter your body type. There are FAR too many people in America who are just chill with doing nothing to take care of themselves, and in fact doing things that are harming their health on a regular basis, and we're just supposed to say, "That's okay! You're gorgeous!" Of course I'm not saying we should call people disgusting or make fun of them in any way shape or form, but we should also not tell people it's normal and healthy to be 250 pounds. It's also not normal or necessarily healthy for the regular person to be doing cross fit 6 days a week and having 0 body fat. There IS a middleground as you are suggesting, but way too many people today think that just because everyone is insane with being PC now that we should commend peoples' bad habits. When did I EVER say anything alluding to "2 dress sizes above Jessica Chastain is a health crisis" ??? I simply said that Wiig was cast for being herself (she's naturally thin, are we gonna attack her for that too?), Mackenzie Davis is a talented actress and rising star that probably deserved the role (was there another agenda to not cast someone else? Who knows, but you also can't automatically discredit her as an actress and call for someone else to fill that role simply because she's not a little chubby), and that Michael Pena was in the movie because he's a comedian. Chastain was cast because she's Chastain (Star power, talented actress, etc.). There is a time and a place for a discussion like this, but in the context of The Martian I think you're looking for a problem where there isn't one.

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[–] iroquoisjoe 8 years ago

..and you honestly don't think they ever turn down talent to fulfill some bogus double standard in casting that people have yet to logically explain

?Ha!  Are you serious? The "logic" is one of the purest ones that there is in life: People, in general, and men, in particular, enjoy looking at attractive women.

I mean, my god, that is as far from "bogus" as you can get. The sexual attraction aspect of humanity is as real and as inescapable as death and taxation.

Peace! 

On November 6, 2012 god blessed America...again. 

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[–] Jupiter555555 8 years ago

People, in general, and men, in particular, enjoy looking at attractive women.

There are plenty of people, some of them are even males, who don't mind looking at average looking women who have a good story to tell and a talent in telling it. That's what filmmaking is. Storytelling. There's a separate industry that's all about making your peepee hard. It's called porn.

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[–] Amalthea_Last_Unicorn 9 years ago

The guy playing Matinez is definitely not overweight in the film; he's big-boned with a big head but he's fit

Meanwhile, all four women were emaciated.

Maybe by American standards, where the average woman is a size 14+. None of the actresses were "emaciated" and Jessica (the captain) was very fit.
In fact, the movie actually downplayed the looks of Johanseen and Montrose by casting actresses who are pretty mediocre looks-wise; in the book, they're written as being "beautiful/hot"; I can't see posters of Kate Mara being all over guys dorm rooms like the book mentioned

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[–] Jupiter555555 8 years ago

The guy playing Matinez is definitely not overweight in the film; he's big-boned with a big head but he's fit

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Meanwhile, all four women were emaciated.
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Maybe by American standards, where the average woman is a size 14+. None of the actresses were "emaciated" and Jessica (the captain) was very fit.
In fact, the movie actually downplayed the looks of Johanseen and Montrose by casting actresses who are pretty mediocre looks-wise; in the book, they're written as being "beautiful/hot"; I can't see posters of Kate Mara being all over guys dorm rooms like the book mentioned

So the same guy who doesn't think that Wiig and Chastain are emaciated.....thinks that the tubby pilot is a reasonable size for a man? Hmmm... I'm also guessing you don't see the issue with the very different standards to which you hold men vs women. Interesting. I'm also guessing that deep down you know it's true but it benefits you so you insist on perpetuating it.

Are you aware that while you're condemning American women who aren't in Hollywood for being bigger, the women who are in Hollywood are struggling to conceive children and dying of heart failure at the age of 60? Are you aware that Wiig and Chastain in particular are vegetarians and vegans respectively? They're not healthy.

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