MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > Who did more damage JJ or Rian?

Who did more damage JJ or Rian?

posted 4 years ago by arflexit (2376)
108 replies | jump to latest

In your opinion between these 2 which do you think hurt the lore, story, characters and themes of Star Wars more (especially now with the trilogy being complete)?

I think I might be in the minority that thinks that JJ did more damage. It was he that undermined the characters of Leia and especially Han; turned Luke into an absent leader and never had a reason planned for it, turned the force into marvel like super powers, set up a completely implausible setting with the First Order and did not one bit of world building to make it feel in place, did another death star, and now with TROS finished off the trilogy by completely undermining the legacy of STar Wars by bringing back the emperor and making Rey related to him (effectively ruining the entire point of the OT and changed it from a Skywalker Story to a Palpatine story).

Rian did quite of bit of damage and made some of this wounds much worse so it would be interesting to discuss which was the worse between the 2.

[–] Reaperscout (583) 4 years ago

I'd go with Rian. The Force Awakens is my favorite of the sequel trilogy. Rise Of Skywalker is still re-watchable. The Last Jedi though just gets worse the more I watch it. The narrative risks they made in The Last Jedi were stupid. You want to see narrative risks be done properly, go watch The Fate Of The Furious aka Fast & Furious 8. Vin Diesel/Dom has a son, Jason Statham/Deckard Shaw becomes good, the mother of Dom's son is murdered, and the list goes go. Also, stuff actually goes down in Fate Of The Furious. The Last Jedi, I stopped/paused 45 minutes into the movie to get snacks because I was starting to get hungry (was watching the movie at home on Blu-Ray), not much happened in that first 45 minutes. Heck, Rey's "training" hadn't started yet. Luke was still being difficult around the 45 minute mark. At least stuff was constantly happening in The Force Awakens and Rise Of Skywalker and I was still interested. Well, more interested in what was going on in The Force Awakens than Rise.

Oh and I'm only comparing Star Wars to Fast & Furious because the F&F movie I picked and The Last Jedi are both the 8th movie. Also, they released the same year.

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

Hmm interesting. Is your opinion sort of judging the films individually and not really concerned with how each of the ST films works within the confines (or in relation to) of the first 6?

Because in a bubble I would say TFA is the 'best' film of the ST; I mean it is still a bad film even when self contained because it is an incoherent mess that relies way too heavily on plot contrivances, convinces, Deux ex machina and mcguffin devices, is way too fast paced allowing for no plot or character development, generally has implausible and unlikable character that are either too powerful/wish fulfillment or buffoonish, and in general just has a poor execution of cinematography and other effects, and the music was uninspired. But still as a self contained film, TFA is better than the others (which is really saying something considering the above.

However when taking the OT into account I believe JJ and TFA/TROS does more harm to the Saga, mythos, continuity and lore than TLJ does.

[–] triplea (3577) 4 years ago

Kennedy since they are just yes men.

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

Kennedy did a terrible job managing the franchise but she did not right the stories.

My interpretation of the events (and I could be wrong) was that Kennedy gave the filmmakers a few key criteria (such as a female lead that is a force user) and then let them write the story. JJ then wrote out the character of Rey. her being overpowered and lore breaking was a result of wish fulfillment but I think it was JJ's wish fulfillment and not Kennedy's. I think the only thing that Kennedy decided was she had to be female. If I am right Rey would have been the same shit character no matter what gender the character was.

[–] triplea (3577) 4 years ago

Well kennedy assembled a 'story team' consisting of mainly women to specifically write the rey character in a way that was 'relevant' to women like her apparently.

"I have a story department up at Lucasfilm, and four out of the six people who make up that story department are women,” Kennedy says. “So there were as many women sitting in the room having those discussion as there were men. I think that, in and of itself, is what really began to help [Rey] take shape in a way that was relevant to us."

Sums up the entire travesty.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-ca-hc-the-women-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens-20151206-htmlstory.html

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

Oh Jesus Christ, what a freaking idiot she is. Boosting about having a majority women writing department, who the fruck cares what is in between their legs; can they write worth a shit?

And if there is a whole department writing the character, how much freedom to create did JJ have? Comments like this from her make me wonder if it was the directors' fault at all. My god, what a stupid thing for her to brag about.