47% Rotten Now
Now on home video, still dropping?
shareGood.
shareWow.
shareDisney shills are running out, they can only hire so many. But they are here trying to change the narrative.
I am seeing quite few new IDs defending the movie.
MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > 47% Rotten Now
The hate for this movie is unreal, frankly, I am getting tired of it. I wish people would move on or analyze the flaws more rationally.
shareI don't see any hate in this post...? And didn't I see you in a recent comment saying something like 'RJ shat out TLJ'. Is that the rational analysis you desire?
shareLol at how defensive you got.
Yes, Rj just shat out what jja produced, the foul mouthed version of tlj reaped what tfa sowed, joint liability of who's responsible for what. Badly worded or not, it's rational unhateful analysis if coming with arguments and examples which I usually do.
And more rational reading comprehension please, I did not claim there was hate in the post, but there is unpresedented hate as demonstrated how quickly tlj is voted down into the bottom.
What a strange post.
I'm not being defensive - I didn't even think your comments were directed at me (if they were you would have replied to me).
I agree completely that RJ shat out TLJ but it's just very strange to say something vitriolic like that one moment and then complain about that you're getting tired of the hate in the next. Then you try to score some cheap point by insulting my reading comprehension? So if it's not this post the 'hate' you're complaining about is people giving TLJ a low RT score... which you must agree it deserves as you think it was shat out?
So in conclusion I have no idea what you're on about.
I agree completely that RJ shat out TLJ but it's just very strange
NO! I did NOT say "RJ shat it out" thereby indicating it's only RJ fault. On the contrary, I said: "Rj just shat out WHAT JJA PRODUCED" or "TLJ just reaped what TFA SOWED" plus in my posts I gave examples for this like Luke's TFA-portrayal or the shoddy world building.
So, I say the hate against TLJ and thus the down voting of this film is rationally unjustified because the root cause of many of TLJ's issues and flaws are laid down in TFA already. If anything, TFA should be downgraded to 47% (too) or whatever.
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You're coming across a little unhinged here.
I know what you said but I'm not going to type out your whole post am I? And yes, I agree - most of the blame lies on TFA and JJ made it incredibly hard for anyone to tell a decent story after the travesty of TFA but that is an explanation for why TLJ is crap not a justification - it still deserves a low score (as does TFA).
Just had a look now... 88%! Jesus Christ, how ol' slippin' Jimmy Abrams gets away with it I do not know.
yes, 88% is a shame and part of narrative that TFA was a near-masterpiece and RJ messed everything up. Both films should have similar rating, like TLJ around 47 but not higher than 59. We can endlessly debate which of both should be lower rated (TFA, no question).
But it looks like TLJ gets all the rating heat for being the messenger that the sequel trilogy was really an poorly thought-through mess from the inception.
yes, 88% is a shame and part of narrative that TFA was a near-masterpiece and RJ messed everything up. Both films should have similar rating, like TLJ around 47 but not higher than 59. We can endlessly debate which of both should be lower rated (TFA, no question).
But it looks like TLJ gets all the rating heat for being the messenger confirming that the sequel trilogy was really an poorly thought-through mess from inception.
My theory is that TFA occupies a unique place in cultural history as it had both massive hype due to the OT and very low expectations due to the PT. This lead to it almost being given a free pass by everyone save a small minority. TLJ of course didn't have such low expectations as so many people convinced themselves TFA is a good film and so we see much more 'accurate' ratings like the 47%. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens when IX comes out...
shareHow is the hate unreal? Some people have loved this franchise for 40 years. 40 years mate. That's a very very very long time.
If they feel like TLJ destroyed their beloved franchise, then that's 40 years of fanboyism and love destroyed. I think the hate is perfectly normal in that scenario.
I answer this above. I am no fan of TLJ either, but I do not think it is fair to blame the mess on this film alone. Many of the flaws people complain about in TLJ were really laid down in Force Awakens already. TLJ adds insult to injury of course. I have posted an extensive analysis of this on the TFA board. I give some examples:
- The achievements and character arcs of the OT characters, mostly Luke and Han, or the defeat of the Empire were damaged by TFA' rehash approach giving us another Empire, Emperor, Tarkin, Vader, Luke etc and rebooting everything back to square one.
- The world building is messed up and murky. TFA as Act 1 of the trilogy should have set up the world and backgrounds, not leaving this conveniently in a mystery box for someone later to explain it's messy plot.
- Have you studied the crawl in TFA? "Luke the LAST JEDI" is says, thus Luke failed to establish a Jedi Order and let the same old crap happen again (Skywalker betrays Jedi seduced by dark side lord). What does Luke do about it, does he redeem Kylo & Co and destroy Snoke cleaning up his mess? No, he hides on an unfindable island to pout leaving a silly map behind. And he "in the meantime" lets the Empire Vol2 rise again killing billions including family. Is this Luke or Jake?
- Where in previous SW could you "download" the Force and any ability you need by closing your eyes? What happened to "learning the ways of the force" or craft.
TFA as Act 1 of the trilogy should have set up the world and backgrounds, not leaving this conveniently in a mystery box for someone later to explain it's messy plot.
It did. There was nothing left to "explain" about the plot of TFA. Story
The "mystery box" narrative used to criticize TFA is a joke. The only "unknown" from that movie was Rey's parents. It was literally the only mystery.
That's why the only mystery Last Jedi dealt with was... drumroll please... Rey's parents. The first entry in a trilogy NEEDS to have at least one mystery.
I guarantee, that if TFA had zero mysteries and wrapped everything up in a neat little bow, you would criticize it for leaving nothing for the sequels.
GUARANTEE share
Well there was the Knights of Ren, what really happened at Luke's School, Snoke's role in all of this and who he is, why did Luke really run away instead of help make it right, why Leia hugged someone she doesn't know over Han's life long friend...these are all mysteries. But you are right, this is a trilogy of films there is supposed to be elements that continue from film to film.
To be honest it amazes me quite a bit why some people are trying to remove responsibility of TLJ from RJ, we already know what JJ had outlined was not used, RJ guided this mess at the expense of the next director in line who disagreed with some of the things they were doing in TLJ. RJ is responsible for the overall quality of TLJ.
Well TFA wasn't so much full of mysteries as it was full of story gaps.
For examples there is zero explanation for who the first order are, what makes them not the empire, why there is a resistance to it (i.e. why isn't the republic doing something) and what shape the galaxy is in. This is part VII in a story, there shouldn't be massive plot gaps leaving us confused as to how we got here from part VI. And please don't tell me this is available in a book. If a key part of the story background is missing and has to be filled in by buying further material then the film is failing at its fundamental purpose.
And do you know the reason why JJ didn't tell us any of this? It's because he doesn't care. He couldn't give a shit. Story is not important to the guy, all he cares about is lens flare and explosions. This is abundantly clear in every single thing he has ever directed, spectacle first, marketing second, story a very distant third place - he's just very clever in picking franchises where he knows the fans will do all the hard work for him.
LOL, "that's a good question, for another time". Have you seen the movie? TFA has one of the worst script in professional blockbuster history.
- the set up mystery of the reappeared saber, how, why...? How does it speak to Rey, why call VIP Jedi like Obi and Yoda out to Rey?
- SNOKE, how can such a powerful dark side Emperor clone who copies all Empire uniforms and ships exist? Where was he in OT? He does not fit with the rule of 2.
- World building: nothing is planted here but false information like "FO rose from the ashes of the Empire", come again? The New Republic rose from the Empire like the Emire out of the Old Republic (in Sith). So what is the FO? Don't they understand the elemental structure of Star Wars?
- Why is there a Republic and a separate Resistance? (I know: they did not want to annihilate Jedi entirely so they kept the Republic, but they still played it like in ANH with a tiny resistance and a huge FO. The Republic is just a sham.
- why leave a map puzzle, why do simple coordinates not suffice in space anymore (are they stupid?)
- why does Kylo pray to Vader to protect from the "Light", Vader redeemed himself turned ans killed the dark side, he is a good Force ghost - why does he not interfere. Has he turned again? This is so incredibly badly written.
- what are the Knights of Ren? Where?
- how can Rey do everything without training, is she a Force goddess...?
- Why does Leia hug her instead of Chewie and the pilots?
- Why does Rey not run away from the saber anymore, has she forgotten about Jakku and her parents? Does she think they are dead, why? Maybe they are slaves or imprisoned. Why does she suddenly not care anymore unlike all her life before?
- Why is Rey sent on the most important Resistance mission? She does not know Luke or the organization. She might not return with him, but stay with him. Why does not Leia go with her who seek Luke so "desperately".
This film does not a lick of sense, it's a hack job.
IMDB rating should follow that as well... I'm checking it every morning and waiting for another drop like the coming of Santa Claus.
shareIt seems unlikely that a massive drop is coming at this point, maybe over time if each new person generally rates it low it will slowly dwindle,,but I would be a bit surprised if it will ever drop below 7.
shareIt's still too high.
sharei noticed the score is at 2.9/5 now, not good
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