MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015) Discussion > Another problem with Rey: (she does ever...

Another problem with Rey: (she does everything herself)

posted 7 years ago by saviodium (500)
27 replies | jump to latest

I mean besides the fact that she is overpowered, goes through absolutely no character ark, overcomes all challenges with little effort(negating all tension), completely overshadows the entire story and obviously got special (spotlight stealing like) script treatment. Thus making her a more comical example of fantasy wish fulfillment than the actual writers' trope from Star Trek fan fiction.

No besides all that, they also make her fill every character role of an ensemble narrative. let me explain. TFA rips off the OT almost frame for frame, it is a soft reboot not a true sequel. But 1 difference is they have Rey literally play every role that the entire cast filled in the OT. let's break it down:

Central Hero - OT= Luke. TFA=Rey. Rey is the force sensitive that is taking her first step into a larger world, though in Rey's case that first step was also equal to her arriving at full force proficiency. She is orphaned similar to Luke being with his aunt and uncle and on a desert planet.

Translator - OT = C-3PO and sometimes Han. TFA=Rey she speaks every language presented to her and acts as a translator for even for droids.

Pilot/Transport - OT=Han/Chewie TFA=Rey. Now Luke was a pilot too but that was in his role as central hero. Having Rey piloting an x-wing and lightsaber battling Kylo would mean she'd be in 2 places at once. But Rey is the one to fly the falcon and use to get off the desert planet. she didn't even need a co-pilot.

Princess/damsel- OT=Princess Leia. TFA=Rey. But this princess needs no man to rescue her, they are all incompetent dead beats anyway. She is captured but frees herself.

Mentor/Teacher = OT=Ben/Yoda. TFA=Rey/Han/Maz. Now this one is more of a stretch on my part admittedly but think about it. Han and Maz give her a few stories and pointers and do not actually teach her anything, they aren't jedi. she never practices and just learns the powers when she needs them with trial and (few) error on the spot.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

And what is amazing to me is that people still to this day defend this terribly written character. It is absolutely incredible the amount of story telling methods that would have to be ignored to enjoy such a shit character. And yet people do. They blind themselves to the terrible writing just to not upset the status quo. 1. It is Star Wars and it takes people a while to acknowledge when they are bad (the nostalgia has to wear off). but 2. and more importantly the new star wars movie have a very deliberate agenda of diversity in a culture that is so focused on being PC that this undertone makes it difficult for people to admit when the film is bad. It is as if they feel that if they admit TFA is a shit movie bad, they will be racist, sexist, bigots. Not surprising since if you do criticize the film that is what you get called. So rather than upset the status quo they bury their intellect and am fool themselves into thinking it was 'great'.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Yeah, they definitely gave Rey too much power without much of an explanation/excuse. At the very least, she should have needed more Force training and not known as many languages. Piloting and some languages, as well as rudimentary fighting skills, could be acceptable. Luke was also a pilot, so it's not that much of a stretch.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"Luke was also a pilot, so it's not that much of a stretch."

Yes but the key difference between Rey and Luke both being pilots is the way their abilities were exposed. Luke is mentioned multiple times to be a competent pilot throughout the film. We do not actually see Luke fly until the very end and by that time we (the audience) not only forget that we actually did not see him fly or train but by the time we would call the competency of the character into question we are already routing for them so much we (subconsciously) give it a pass. That is what made exposition for Luke's piloting skills was brilliant. Rey's exposition is literally 10 minutes after we meet the character and literally 30 seconds before she is flying and pulling of stunt moves in a cargo ship that fighter pilots could not keep up with. That is what makes her piloting skills exposition lazy, contrived and stupid.

It is so frustrating when TFA/Rey apologist claim that we (critics) have a sexist double standard for pointing this difference out. In the Rey defender mind any criticism of the character is inheritance routed in sexism, thus making it impossible to have a reasonable argument with them; because they have abandoned reason.

[–] painbow (259) 7 years ago

She's either an uber Jedi or it's just shit writing.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

Even if she was an uber jedi it would still be shit writing. Because even the best most powerful jedi needed years of training and practice before being as powerful as Rey. it is just bad, bad writing.

[–] Dallas (304) 7 years ago

Let it go, shake it off, whatever out dated reference to this outdated bitchfest works for you. Everything than can be said, has been said. What's the point in saying it again? Just so you can get a slap on the back from other people who can't let it go or shake it off?

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

nah, its is fresh in my mind, I have time to kill and the closer the last jedi gets the more it comes up in conversation. I mean how is it appropriate to "let it go" when we are still in the middle of the sequel trilogy. if it was 2 years removed from episode 9 I could see this being a valid position to take. As of now, it just makes you look like an asshole.

Do you say the same thing to prequel bashes? It is nearly 20 years later and they can't seem to let it go.

[–] Dallas (304) 7 years ago

Prequel bashers have seen the whole story, they're not moaning about a girl Jedi because their fragile little egos can't handle the fact a chick is the Jedi. Get fucking over it. If the bad writing isn't explained in the sequels then have it, until then stop fucking repeating yourselves over and over and over again. do you think if you write it enough it will rewrite history? No, you just want to piss and moan cos it's the cool thing to do. How fucking sad.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

Ah the "your sexist" fallacy. This is why I still argue about this because of fucking morons like you that defend all criticism of this shitty character by calling all criticism no matter how legitimate sexist in nature. Ignore the fact that most Rey critics like me defend and love female characters like Furiousa, Ripley, Sarah Connor, Selene from underworld and a whole long list of action heroines. The difference is those characters were well written. It has nothing to do with Rey being a female jedi. she is not one by the way. She was not trained to be a jedi, she just used force powers at will without training. but that is besides the point. If Rey in her backstory was shown flying, fighting in an a arena type deal for food and hanging out around the church of the jedi than I would not complain one bit. cuz then she actually would be a well written 'believable' character. Her abilities far exceeded her given background.

But now go ahead and keep defending her just because she is a female. Do you defend Anakin the same way? you are an example of the true double standard. Giving female action heroines a pass on bad writting just because it is progressive. you are a beta cuck that thinks by kissing female ass will get you laid. Guess what go do some research on it. Woman statistically prefer masculine men. So I guess you are fucked. Or you a fat third-wave feminist that is so repulsive you can't attract men so you become an internet warrior and bash any criticism of female characters that fit you bizarre narcissistic girl power wish fulfillment. Now go get a treadmill and lose some wait fatty.

[–] Dallas (304) 7 years ago

So I guess all those posts on IMDb complaining about her "small tits" were just annoyed because women only have "big tits"?

Just because you and your ilk hide behind the bad writing doesn't hide your blatant sexism. Where the 15 thousand pages about everything else that wrong with the movie? No where to be seen because a planet that destroys a star with no gravitational impacts doesn't have a set of boobs.

New tomb raider movie. Bad casting because boobs not big enough. Wonder Woman bad casting because boobs not big enough. Yeah, there's no sexism going on at all. It's all in my head. Rey is Mary Sue, but Luke and anakin get a million and one excuses. Yeah, no sexism going on at all. Say the internet shit it's pants and Jyn erso in rogue one as well. Got thenthier fucking claws out ready to rape the character like the sexist fucking trolls you all are. So don't tell me sexism is a fallacy. Its as obvious as an obvious thing with the word obvious stencilled on it.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"So I guess all those posts on IMDb complaining about her "small tits" were just annoyed because women only have "big tits"?"

I have never once complained about that. From what I saw that was only a very small percentage of the Rey criticisms. I would say anyone that made such a complaint was being a troll and not to be conflated with honest character analysis and writing criticism. The fact that you are conflating them is a gross failing on your part.

"Where the 15 thousand pages about everything else that wrong with the movie? No where to be seen because a planet that destroys a star with no gravitational impacts doesn't have a set of boobs. "

I and most others have covered that stuff repeatively, the bland uninspired rehashed plot, the illogical star killer, the emo kylo, the weak bumbling Finn, the plot holes with luke and han deserting their families without explanation. Almost all defenders have caved on these and admitted it was weaknesses in the film but excuse them as having answers coming later in the next film. I think that is a cop out but I cannot argue more. Rey is still the only aspect that you idiots still defend with a religious like zealousness. it is creepy really.

"New tomb raider movie. Bad casting because boobs not big enough. Wonder Wo...blah...blah"

I have never said anything of this sort. Again you conflate my valid criticism and analysis with the few trolls and even fewer legit idiots sexist. That conflating makes you not only stupid but also an asshole.

This is such a pathetic argument. Some people said sexist stuff about Rey so all criticism is now sexist? You are fucking retard if you believe. It disturbs me that you probably do. I hope you are just an idiot that can't argue your own reason so you use sophistry as a way out of the hole you put yourself in.

[–] Dallas (304) 7 years ago

I never said YOU, people like you. People that have nothing better to do with their time but get butt hurt over not being able to identify with a lead character.

Let's cast out minds back to the first trailer for the force awakens. And everybody was getting their knickers in a twist about a black storm trooper. Don't lie and say bullshit like this is just a few trolls. It's the majority. It's always been the majority. Other people are happy to accept that Star Wars is science fantasy and not confuse it with science fiction that must have some basis in reality. Rey is over powered, so fucking what? It's the first part of a three part story with nothing but hints at what the bigger picture is. And don't tell me that just because you bring up the other flaws that must mean I'm wrong. Take a look around buddy, the internet is seething with hatred, sexism, racism and everything else. If it's different to what they know, they take it like someone just called them fat.

Like I said, when the trilogy is done and you know they whole story and it's still bullshit, have at it. It will deserve it then. Moaning about a character you know nothing about in the first act is like moaning about why it takes columbo so long to catch the killer when we all saw the killer do it at the start.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"I never said YOU, people like you. "

You conflate them with me in order to invalidate my criticism and analysis. This is called sophistry, non-arguments, fallacies. That is why you said they are people like me. They are nothing like me and I am nothing like those particular people you were bringing up.

"People that have nothing better to do with their time"

At the moment yes I have nothing better to do. Same as you. This is another non-argument, the "why are you here fallacy". I could easily turn it around and say the same about you defending this film watch: "people that have nothing better to do with their time but get butt hurt over any criticism of a lead character they like."

In addition to that, I couldn't relate to Rey. But that is not because she is a female. I could relate to Ripley, Sarah connor, Furiousa etc. That is because they felt real, Rey felt phony. Only narcissistic SJW can relate to such a character.

" And everybody was getting their knickers in a twist about a black storm trooper..."

Okay I am calling you out on this. You need a source for this statistic because I spent time on the discussion board before the film and hardly saw any 'black storm trooper' complaints. Of course there was a few, there always is. But again trying to conflate those 'arguments' with mine is a fallacy. You arguments are shitty because they are non-arguments.

"Like I said, when the trilogy is done ...."

Having the whole story won't somehow retroactively fix TFA. The next movies could be good if they can address all these problems but that will feel like backwards engineered, contrived and forced. So You are telling me them spending the next 2 films explaining the last one will fix TFA?

"Moaning about a character you know nothing about in the first act is like moaning"

That is crap, you know almost nothing about characters like Obi-wan, Vader, or even Han in the first act and there was no problems like you have with Rey.

[–] Dallas (304) 7 years ago

I never invalidated your criticism, I didnt at any time say you were wrong, did I? No, Im talking about the ridiculous severity that the internet has mustered in regard to this one issue. And you can say till youre blue in the face its got nothing to do with sexism, but you are wrong. And anyone looking objectively can see it the seething sexism in most of these posts.

You didnt see any black storm trooper complaints? You didnt see all the stupid shit about boycotting the film because of it? You can google that shit yourself, it isnt hard to find.

Rey is over powered and thats the general non sexist view on it right? Why cant that be explained? Once again, this is a FANTASY story. Its not real life, or even close to it. One option could be that shes an experiment. Brain washed like fin to be a dark/grey jedi or sith cannon fodder. We dont know.

Different character, different story. You cant compare any of them. Did you moan about the first act of the bourne identity? Hes OP as fuck with no explanation. Once again this is the first part of a 3 part story. We dont know ANYTHING about rey. Saying the story is bullshit and had better have some good answers in the next film is what you and everyone else should be saying. And if it was a guy most of you would be. Not everything that the SJWs say is sexism is, but in this case its glaringly obvious that sexism is playing a major part.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"I never invalidated your criticism, ...."

Wow, can you really not see just how dense you are being? Do you not understand what 'conflate' means? Can you really be this ignorant? Even in your attempt to prove you are not conflating you are still doing it. first you state "I never invalidated your criticism" but than state "objectively can see it the seething sexism in most of these posts" these 2 statements contradict each other. because the second is still an attempt at invalidating my criticism by stating it is comparable to the sexist ones.

"You didnt see any black storm trooper complaints?"

I saw some, but it was by no means a majority as you claim.

"Rey is over powered and thats the general non sexist view on it right? Why cant that be explained? Once again, this is a FANTASY story."

She breaks the universe rules of how the force works. There is something called fantasy system or magic system in stories. if this was the first in a series it can establish whatever rules it wanted. Rey is overpowered because she broke the star wars rules of how the force works. That is why it is a valid criticism and is not a sexist view.

"Did you moan about the first act of the bourne identity?"

Terrible comparison, you know Bourne has amnesia, you know the government is after him. There is enough gear on him in the first scene to know he is an agent of somekind. the very first scene gives you all the explanation you need for his abilities even if he does not know the origin the audience does. Rey has no explanation of her abilities outside scavenging. There is plenty of speculation but nothing concrete.

I admittedly disagree with you claim that sexism is playing a big part of this because i have only seen it play a very small role in only a few posts. I think you are projecting your assumption that all criticism of Rey is sexist in nature and apply it to all posters, just like you did with me, then go on to claim that all critics are sexist.

[–] Dallas (304) 7 years ago

Are you fucking kidding? How fucking stupid are you? Do I really need to spell everything out double spaced?

What said about the character is all valid if this was a single movie. Whats said about the character is true, because there is no context to whats going on. You have stated that the next two films can do NOTHING to put the events in the first film in to context. See the point now, or just trying to justify your blatant bigotry?

Well I guess if you only saw a few posts, I guess thats all it was. You being the authority on everything. The fact it was so bad it was addressed in the main stream media means nothing because you only saw a few posts, right?

I think Im done with you now. Youre clearly a bigot and I might as well be pissing against the wind trying to explain to you why the things you say are bigoted. I pity any woman that you trick into sleeping with you.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"Are you fucking kidding? How fucking stupid are you?"

Fortunately, I am not as fucking stupid as you.

"Do I really need to spell everything out double spaced?"

I do not even know what that means. "double spaced"?

"What said about the character is all valid if this was a single movie. "

This is such a bullshit cop-out argument. first all this is not a tv series. Second of if the next 2 movies spend too much time explaining the holes in this one they will suck too. how can you not see that. I have watched JJ Ted talk, he is a hack that uses the mystery box and has no answers. the fucking box is empty and you bought it like an idiot.

" See the point now, or just trying to justify your blatant bigotry? "

See how you prove my point about the fact that your only argument is "you're a bigot". you have no argument so you go for character assassination. your a fucking weak pathetic cuck.

"Well I guess if you only saw a few posts, I guess thats all it was"

I spend a good amount of time going through posts on these discussion boards over that last 2 years. I think you are fabricating evidence. basically you are a lying fag.

"The fact it was so bad it was addressed in the main stream media "

yes the same way the MSM covered the ghostbuster supposed sexism. get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

"Youre clearly a bigot"

and "you being the authority on everything" means that clearly must be true. tell me this stupid ass if I am such a bigot how come Rey is the only female character in an action film I have ever criticized? I seriously have never done that once before in my life. Why am I not critical of Jyne? I actually like her character. explain that shit stupid. I will admit I do have a prejudice. I am intolerant of shitty writing and stupid people with lousy reasoning in their arguments.

[–] Bubbathegut (17234) 7 years ago

I agree with everything you said Saviodium. It was proven many times over on IMDb that Rey is a poorly written character. I think some people are still defending her because she is a female or they just enjoy antagonizing people.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

" I think some people are still defending her because she is a female or they just enjoy antagonizing people."

Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. I watched a youtube on this, about how keyboard SJWs are the only ones that adamantly defend this character because they care about the agenda disney is propagating and not the narrative, the film or even the star wars legacy. Most I imagine are not even really star wars fans, but became ones for the sake of Rey being the first female jedi lead on the big screen. The funny part is they do not see their obsession with race, gender, and orientation makes them the actual bigots.

Here is the youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jVU7JrnPMQ

this whole thing is like those that argue against voter ID's laws. They say that minorities will be disproportionately affected by such laws. Why? why would minorities have more difficulty getting ID than anyone else? it is because the SJW assumes that minorities are too stupid to overcome even the most simple of obstacles on their own and need the government to do it for them. They also do not see just how unbelievably racist this assumption makes them. completely blind to it.

[–] Dallas (304) 7 years ago

Im starting to see why you have such issues with rey. Its because you are a bigot who cant see outside is own experience.

Voter ID laws are a solution to a non existing problem. Theres been a little over 30 cases of voter fraud in 17 years. Getiting ID that would be accepted costs money. You dont want to pay for healthcare with your taxes, you want to pay for other peoples ID? The stats all show that the majority of groups without ID are black. Why are republicans pushing for a law that doesnt have a problem to fix that will mostly affect people that wont vote for them? The republican party is assuming that they wont bother trying to get the right ID. The party is trying to push you the tax payer to pay for something that only helps the party. You cool with that?

You watched a youtube video that confirms your bias and you agree with it? Holy shit! (eye roll)

The point is not about the character. The point is about how much, and what way people go on about it. I dont really see what so hard to understand about that? Or are you bringing it back around to "Im defending the character" because you have no argument against what Im actually saying?

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"Voter ID laws are a solution to a non existing problem. Theres been a little over 30 cases of voter fraud in 17 years."

Did CNN tell you that? there are currently thousands of dead people still registered and thousands more registered in more than one state. Voter fraud is hard to prove because you would have to catch someone in the act. It is easier to find internet pirates than fraudulent voters. Voter ID would correct all the bad registration and negate all the possibility of voter fraud.

Makes sense you don't like republicans claim everyone is sexist and racist and like Rey. there seems to be a correlation.

"You watched a youtube video that confirms your bias and you agree with it? Holy shit! (eye roll)"

What are you a fucking idiot I just shared a video of someone that put an argument in a way I thought was superior than some of my word choice. obviously I agreed with it that is why I shared it. do you not know how the art of arguing works. You can bring in outside material in support of you position. That is not allowed? why? because you didn't like my source?

"The point is not about the character."

That is the point, stupid. That is the whole point of the topic I created. It is a discussion about a character.

[–] Cornelia123 (784) 7 years ago

You are 100% right. Right on the money. Whoever wrote that character should be banned from scriptwriting. Forever.

She is EVERYTHING, translator, mentor, fighter, pilot, damsel in distress, ....heroine. And what's worse is that she's perfect at it all. Utterly ridiculous.

I'm obviously a female and I absolutely HATE Rey. lol

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"nd what's worse is that she's perfect at it all. "

Thanks for adding that. Very true. Not only does she fill every role but she does so perfectly. It makes the character feel so contrived, forced, fake and un-relatable. everything is just perfect for her and she is perfect for everything.

Also thank you for not being taken in by the lazy pandering they were doing. you were obviously among their target audience, gosh the goal of forced diversity is so seeded in racism and sexism it is ridiculous more people don't recognize it. Can't they see the filmmakers are not confident that minorities and women can reach the grand stage on their own and basically disney is throwing them a bone? If it was me I would throw the bone back to them and say screw you I'll earn my spot.

[–] Cornelia123 (784) 7 years ago

You either like a movie, or you don't, and it has nothing to do with your gender imo. If they were targeting the female audience, surely they would have put a sexy hunk as a lead, no?

But yeah, it's not politically correct to have a Princess Leia type anymore, a damsel in distress who relies on 'men' to save her. I for one don't have a big problem with them making a female character/heroine that can kick some ass, but to make her so little-miss-perfect is just nauseating. I prefer a 'hero' like Hans Solo who likes his drink etc and is in no way perfect but so much more interesting, to Rey any day.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

"You either like a movie, or you don't, and it has nothing to do with your gender imo. If they were targeting the female audience, surely they would have put a sexy hunk as a lead, no? "

True, but most modern third wave keyboard feminist do not like to admit they are attracted to manly men. So I guess more specifically the target audience was unattractive feminist that repulse good looking men or younger girls that might not have strong attractions yet. You are probably not an unattractive female so the pandering did not work on you, or they would have picked a Chris Hemsworth type for the lead. lol

"But yeah, it's not politically correct to have a Princess Leia type anymore, a damsel in distress who relies on 'men' to save her. I for one don't have a big problem with them making a female character/heroine that can kick some ass, but to make her so little-miss-perfect is just nauseating. I prefer a 'hero' like Hans Solo who likes his drink etc and is in no way perfect but so much more interesting, to Rey any day."

exactly this is a perfect summary of the problem. It is like they overcompensated with Rey. Furiousa wasn't a bad female kick ass character. neither was Jyn I would say. Rey they just went way to far with 'don't need no man' shtick.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

James Bond is a HYPER "Mary Sue" but he's one of the most beloved movie characters of all time. He can do anything, far beyond what is expected of his job as a spy.

[–] saviodium (500) 7 years ago

How is James Bond a 'Mary Sue'? He has the background of a trained top spy for the British government. His abilities fit because of his background. I will admit sometimes it is over the top or even silly but I do not think James Bond ever fits the definition of a Mary Sue. but nice try though