Nice to see plenty of familiar "faces"
Ah, I've missed discussing Prometheus. Gotta say, Covenant was pretty bland.
They made the predictable mistake: Listened too much to the haters, and thus ended up with a partial Prometheus sequel that's mostly just an Alien copy.
Loved watching David bomb the Engineers, though.
-Frog
Good to see you are alive and well Spanners! 🙂
I thought A:C was pretty rubbish too but I thought it was leagues above Prometheus in terms of story telling.
So are you an A:C hater then?
The haters club has always been were the cool kids* hang out!
*I'll stop you right there!
No, Covenant was okay, just bland. I can't see myself watching it again, as there's really not much to it, but there are a few scenes that stick with me. Again, like David bombing the Engineers.
Too bad about Shaw, though. Too bad Ridley gave in to the whiners and just regurgitated bloody xeno carnage like they wanted.
He gave into nobody Spanners, he'd painted himself into a corner and there was nothing he could do but go the semi-action route and throw in some platitudes for fanboys of Prometheus like yourself.
shareHe most certainly gave in to the complainers and gave them what they asked for: A mindless bloody romp with xenomorphs.
David bombing the Engineers was a pure metaphor for this as well: The demands of the studio and the haters to churn out another basic Alien movie turned Ridley into a robot who decided to destroy what he had built, and then sulk in its ashes until more people arrived to see what he'd done.
Tell me that's not what the movie says.
"He most certainly gave in to the complainers and gave them what they asked for: A mindless bloody romp with xenomorphs."
As you know, I was most certinly a complainer about Prometheus. Where and when did I ask for a mindless bloody romp with xenomorphs?
"Tell me that's not what the movie says."
Ridley was pouting the whole time, I'll give you that.
"Where and when did I ask for a mindless bloody romp with xenomorphs?"
Well I'm not sure when exactly these masses of disgruntled sci-fi-horror fans distilled down into just you, specifically, but... Well I don't really need to go on with this point, right?
Luckily, the box office is proving that Prometheus was in fact the profitable way to go, so the studio can suck on that.
"Well I'm not sure when exactly these masses of disgruntled sci-fi-horror fans distilled down into just you, specifically, but... Well I don't really need to go on with this point, right?"
He most certainly gave in to the complainers and gave them what they asked for
It's quite implied that he would give in to the majority opinion, not every last individual opinion.
I don't mind casual generalities, and I think it makes someone look MUCH more foolish to be nitpicking like a Harry Harambe Houdini Plinkett etc yadda yadda......
Or perhaps you truly didn't understand what I said because I didn't say "Some of" like you childishly demand?
In that case, you might want to sharpen your conversational skills, ability to grasp context, and overall manners.
;)
You've not changed a bit.
-Frog
I change daily I'll have you know. Sometimes twice a day or more.
Did they let you keep the janitor outfit?
Back on topic, I was just looking for a logic answer which conformed to conversational syntax.
You either think that I am egotistical enough to imply that I represent all "Complainers" or that I should understand garbled English to somehow be a better communicator - which is it Spanners?
"You either think that I am egotistical enough to imply that I represent all "Complainers" "
LOL where would that come from? No, you were very obviously representing your own personal opinion, there's no confusion about that, I even commented on this distilling down to just your view. Remember? It's right up there.
"or that I should understand garbled English to somehow be a better communicator - which is it Spanners?"
You do try so hard, sometimes it's cute.
I need to get to sleep soon, some of us have to work in the morning =)
Its already morning for some of us 🙂
Night night, and make sure you bring your game face the next time you show up!
Ah yes, everything is a game to you, isn't it?
Too bad you're basically just sitting there playing with yourself =D
I keep myself amused in a childish way, yes.
But that's what you have to do when you are playing with children*
*And I'll stop you right there!
So, I point out that you are playing with yourself, and you subsequently describe yourself as children.
I couldn't agree more!
Takes one to know one Spanners!
shareOh god....
shareYou rang m'lady?
shareHow happy,on a scale of 0-10,are you two to be reunited?
Ah go on as it's a special occasion you can dial it up to eleven.
Summer Solstice Dazed, the heavens knew we were meant to be together after being ripped apart between Winter's Solstice and Spring Equinox.
Who am I to mess with the universe? [giveup]
OK, don't answer that [tongue] (The original tongue and not that foul mouth one that got brought in for no reason).
I'm betting your little Scottish heart skipped a beat when you saw the Prometheus board trending.
"Who can it be?" you (probably)wondered.
"Could it be Taudarian? Oh no silly me! Well maybe it's He_can't or even Shattered!"
The excitement was great as you clicked on the link,savouring the moment until the recent post was revealed.
You gasped...
"It's him!"
Sniff,its like Cathy and Heathcliff all over again.
[winkgrin]
It was odd to see it flash up, I've tried giving it a rumble but it's never gone anywhere and so I figured it was some Ben character or A:C scholar looking to link the movies together.
When I saw it was someone posing as Spanners I figured it was a fake but it doesn't take long to verify that particular brand of...humour(?) and then it was like June 2012 all over again...♥♥♥
Loved the Engineer bombing scene as well... i also liked that [spoiler] Shaw was discarded of so unceremoniously...[/spoiler]
I think that with time people will come to appreciate the pure quality that is Prometheus... underrated movie...
Quite underrated indeed, but it has a very strong following that will only grow.
Covenant probably helped that out, really.
Oh Prometheus has a quality that the adjective "Pure" works well with...
...ask any ned what that word is when it's not quality.
The only good thing in this horrendous mess is that surprisingly the message ended up being good : the person who believed in God died for nothing.
That's good.
Obviously it was accidental: Ridley probably wanted to give the opposite message (because old people turn to religion out of fear of dying) and failed miserably, to my heart's content :)
He wanted her to survive Prometheus in order to give the repugnantly false message that "if you believe in God he will help you" but nobody liked Shaw so he had to kill her (unceremoniously) in the next abortion of a movie.
Seeing her dead rotten corpse was the only good thing in Alien Covenant, and now Satan laughs as she eternally rots in hell. Ah ah ah.
The IMDb forum was the only good takeaway from the movie.
And now we have here 🙂
In the words of David "Sometimes in order to create one must first destroy" 😎
I love how positive-minded and well-spoken all the Prometheus haters are, LOL
Just look at this eloquence: "Obviously it was accidental: Ridley probably wanted" -- I love nice consistent sentences like this where words like "obviously" don't contradict words like "probably," this is basically high-minded literature.
Also, I love how the Prometheus haters do NOT regularly demonstrate sociopathic features with the things they choose to say, indeed! Your entire post here is nothing but a powerful testament to a mind full of empathy, compassion, and intelligent insight!
XD
There must be something special about Prometheus that brings this out in some people... I don't know exactly what it is...
I do believe it has something to do with Ridley asserting his artistic sensibility in trying to explore existential ideas with little regard for the fanbase, fidelity to the prior movies or commercial pressure...
I think it distrubs people who were expecting the safety of an Aliens, or an Alien Vs. Predator, but instead are confronted with a meditation on the nature of man...
I think it annoys some people to no end to think of Ridley Scott as more than just a visualist... To consider that he would dare ask the big questions on screen...
But isn't this what we should want? Filmmakers who are capable of more than just visuals and entertainment? Artists who try to do more and push the boundries of their movies?
I'll see your Ridley pushing the boundaries of existentialism within this movie and raise you... Alien: Covenant!
shareThe one thing I love about Covenant (from 2 months ago):
I feel the exact same way. He most likely told by his producers to make Covenant a generic Alien movie (and to add Alien back into the title of course).
HOWEVER, I find that Ridley managed to make Covenant a very symbolic movie. Even the name implies that this movie is nothing more than a contract (synonym of covenant) between Ridley and Fox... But the symbolism is quite interesting.
Prometheus ended with Shaw leaving to find out more about the Engineers. That was the storyline... And what exactly happened? We see David (a soulless machine) DESTROYING the Engineers, the core of the Prometheus storyline. Yes, it is symbolic of the true storyline being destroyed, and we only see it in flashback, thus it happened long before Covenant even started!
The other part of the Prometheus storyline, Shaw... She was also destroyed by the soulless machine long before Covenant started. Everything Ridley wanted to do with the story, he had to destroy, and he shows that to us, we get to see the soulless heartless machine destroying everything about the Prometheus story just to make way for another generic Alien movie.
It's a message from Ridley: "I was forced to do this. It's all because of a covenant/contract I have with Fox, a heartless corporate machine. I'm sorry."
On those grounds, I find it to be a very interesting statement. The movie is pretty dull, but the symbolism is powerful, something Ridley EXCELS at.
Glad to see those straw ends still have purchase for your fingertips Spanners! 🤦
I guess Ridley is doing the fingering in this case 🤣
You don't find it obvious?
These things are facts:
-Alien Covenant has almost nothing to do with Prometheus other than David, and mostly just retreads the first Alien movie.
-Covenant is a synonym for contract.
-Shaw represented her search and the core storyline of Prometheus, which was to continue in part 2. She and her goal were destroyed years before the storyline in Covenant.
-The engineers represented the goal of Shaw's search, and they were also destroyed years before the storyline in Covenant.
-Thus, both of the core driving elements of the Prometheus storyline were destroyed years before the start of Covenant.
-David is a soulless machine and he's the one who destroyed it all.
It's not even all that "symbolic," it's basically quite blatant. If I want to get into actual symbolism, I'll move on to ideas like "maybe the humans in stasis on the Covenant are supposed to represent the fans who patiently waited for a second Prometheus, and now, like the colonists, they must simply take the losses and move on to something else."
[deleted]
"I don't find it obvious."
Well, I should have known better than to try illustrating a point that requires a bit of thought and insight (only a bit, seriously).
"What you saw in Prometheus isn't what I, or many others, saw.
And you have consistently failed to articulate what it is you saw."
WAIT A SECOND -- If I consistently failed to articulate this, then HOW would you know it's not what you or others saw?
First point in your post, and you literally contradicted yourself. This isn't even up for debate, it's very blatant that you claimed one thing, and then claimed something that nullifies/invalidates your first claim.
"Your inability to communicate, and yet belittle others for, your opinion on Prometheus"
This isn't even a properly constructed opening to a sentence. Re-read it. I belittle others "for" my opinion? What?
Talking about communication and then both contradicting yourself AND garbling up a sentence.
WOW.
At least you tried... Even though it's the same broken-record lying B.S. you keep trying over and over again. LOL
The fact that I have to turn off all the other sensory input around me to try and understand your position is fascinating.
You were asked what is was that was so amazing about Prometheus.
You responded with variations of "If you didn't see it then there is no way I can describe it to you"
When further pressed for what this amazement was based upon, as people watched on a second occasion (Which cost them time and money) to see what they could have missed, you responded by calling them a "Retard", "Moron" or "Idiot" and in no way could justify this through illustrating your point by articulating yourself - in any way!
Never letting up your position as to what it was you found so marvelous about Prometheus and why you were such a prick (Your term, not mine) about it led to there divide of Lovers and Haters.
Yourself, Nickerless, Carrots, Asphxyoid and others tried to create an in-group who had an understanding which couldn't, or wouldn't, be shared with those seeking to understand what it is about the film which was good. A film which was so abhorrently terrible that it gave my cringe cringe and my embarrassment a fully flushed face.
I put it down to your dad liking Laurence of Arabia and you not being able to say so in the end, that way we both walked away with something resembling the facade of basic integrity but here you are all these years later thinking it can still be a magical thing which only you get and nobody else can.
The fact you still can't articulate what it is and think asking about what it is as stupid or contradictory just goes to show that that million you got from KNOWING LAWYERS and building infinite capacity hard drives from 1Gb USB sticks on your flying bike whilst seeing two women (Of consenting age I must add, well done!) is probably where you should stay as fraying back into a conversation that you clearly don't have the capacity to take part in but feel happy insulting from won't work out well for you this time either.
Your ball!
Sheesh, you really think you can pull this weird new "guilting" angle on me? Your summary is horrendous, over-simplified and arguably pretty light on reality, but I'm not going to debate that.
I'm not the one who was seen BY HIS OWN ALLY (Brippy) on the IMDb Prometheus board to be a terrible person. He was so nice to me after that, he apologized and let me know that he was able to see it wasn't my Facebook account which attacked his relatives. He was pretty sure it was you.
THAT was the final nail in the coffin for you to claim ANY kind of illusory moral high ground, like you're doing now.
Just give it up, you sociopath. Just accept responsibility for the part you played and stop pointing fingers at everyone else while pretending to be some kind of high-minded saint who just came to "discuss."
You're not fooling anyone.
Also, this weak sauce you're flinging today, THIS is why you need backup. This is why you need a posse. When you don't have a bunch of douchebags helping you out (and likely socks of your own mixed in), you just turn into a WHINY LITTLE BABY.
This latest post of yours is just... sad. That's all I can say, really.
"with those seeking to understand what it is about the film which was good"
Yeah right. Dirty little liar. Challenging someone to "defend" a movie just for an opportunity to shoot down their view and mock them for liking a movie, that's just childish behavior, something you excel at.
That must be why you pretend to be all high and mighty, to COMPENSATE. That's probably also why you were so interested in the "rules" of that "superhero/supervillain" topic the other day -- Because with your child's mindset, you seek approval and permission.
Then you push that on others by implying that they need your permission to like a movie, once they fully "justify" it to your satisfaction, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING WHILE CALLING IT "SEEKING TO UNDERSTAND."
It's transparent... "dude."
P.S. I didn't run out of space, I just wanted to add something else (it was just going to be the carrot comment here but then I added more)
All the way back in 2012, I called out carrot for his behavior. I told him "pro-trolling is still trolling," and for a while I would not even deal with him.
"an understanding which couldn't, or wouldn't, be shared with those seeking to understand what it is about the film which was good. A film which was so abhorrently terrible"
There you are again, giving me a NEW EXAMPLE of exactly what I described in my response above. Your comment makes it obvious that any "explanation" of one's opinion would be a waste on you because your view was already set in stone.
You hated the movie so passionately that you demanded others justify their appreciation for it TO EARN YOUR PERMISSION, and then you rode that demand for YEARS AND YEARS while obviously being unwilling to ever accept any response that is given, in fact never intending to even care at all for what's said in response. If you really feel it was so terrible, then why would you even care about why anyone else might like it? EXACTLY. That question exactly. It's rhetorical, by the way.
The tactic is so ****ing childish, such bully behavior, pushing people to explain and justify their appreciation for something while mocking it.
If a friend shared something they liked with you, and you didn't like it, the normal thing to do is to just say you didn't like it and move on. If you were to, say, continually ask them to explain and justify their opinion, but then basically telling them that their responses aren't good enough because what they showed you is trash..... YOU WOULD PROBABLY PISS OFF, OR EVEN LOSE, THAT FRIEND. They would suddenly see what a self-obsessed jerk you are, unable to comprehend that the opinions of others might differ from your own.
Let's go for an extreme example.
Jimmy: "Why do you love your mother, Timmy?"
Timmy: "Because she loves me and takes care of me and she's nice."
Jimmy: "But she's not. She's mean, she's stupid, and she's ugly. There's really no reason for you to love her. Give me a REAL reason why you love her."
Timmy: "Screw you, Jimmy. You're a retard. I don't want to play with you anymore."
See? Jimmy is a horrible little piece of crap. AGAIN, extreme example.
Do you two have nothing better to do? If the Internet was well managed this little display should get you both about a 4 week time out. Why do you put this garbage out here for everyone else to have to pass over? Please think about it in the future.
shareYou called everyone who didn't "Get it" a "Moron", "Retard" or "Idiot".
When asked what there was to 'get' you would guffaw and double down in your condescension which only made you an open target because now you were defending something through hubris without evidence - the height of ignorance.
As for your little...titbits...I don't even think Brips spoke the truth regarding his apparent Facebook hack, the only two people invested enough in that would be me and He_Cant and I know it wasn't me and I don't see He_Cant ever stooping so low as to take external personal individuals into the mix - by his own moral authority and by understanding the legal recourse.
As for me not wanting to accept an opinion, other than my own, as being right. GalahadFairlight corrected an assumption I had held for near 30 years about the Atari ST having a more powerful soundchip embedded in it that the Amiga. I had lots of incorrect validations for believing this and he soundly put me correct within 2 or 3 replies to me on the subject. I am better equipt due to that knowledge and yet here we are thousands of replies later and you cannot share what makes Prometheus as profoundly amazing as you claim it to be.
As for my beliefs being set in stone regarding Prometheus I asked of any of the people who supported Prometheus to discuss why it was more than what I took it to be. Nobody would discuss it openly and the closest I got was Java_Blue using his imagination to try and hold it to some B-Movie and serial TV science fiction types as, like me, he couldn't believe Ridley Scott could produce such as POS and was rattling his brain to try and make sense of it all.
I also made another video with kaskait who believed in some sort of transformative alchemy principles which I don't believe in, as I see it as basic storytelling for humanity, but accepted her perspective on the issue as she was behind it and could put forward evidence and supported opinion about it.
Never once have you done this