MovieChat Forums > September Dawn (2007) Discussion > TRUE FACTS FROM AN EX-MEMBER HERE!

TRUE FACTS FROM AN EX-MEMBER HERE!

posted 17 years ago by gsmith83-1
280 replies | jump to latest

I was born and raised in the LDS faith, and only a few years ago "quit". I'm here to tell you that the following are FACTS based upon my own experiences.

1. I've never met a nicer person than my ex-bishop.
2. Tithing, or giving 10% of your income to the church, is optional. What religion doesn't accept donations?
3. My family was very poor for a while, and the church helped us financially.
4. Mormons DO NOT have horns surgically attached to their heads... I'm just tired of hearing about this one.
5. I quit the church out of personal beliefs, and I wasn't harassed or kidnapped or anything.
6. The LDS church is NOT a cult. Get a life, people.
7. The best representation of mormonism from an outside perspective would probably be from South Park. I know, it sounds dumb, but its true!

Anybody else have anything to add? I'm sure I'm gonna get some idiots saying some crazy things, but I can handle it! I'm a big boy.

[–] lngjon 17 years ago

Where I agree that most Mormons I've known are quite nice people, when i was doing psychological counseling, I met a lot of nice lunatics.
"6. The LDS church is NOT a cult. Get a life, people. " Depends on how you frame it, The only difference between a cult and a religion involves the number of members. So, all religion, really, is a cult, so Mormonism is too.

[–] hotaugustnight 17 years ago

Can we say it is a religious cult, then?

[–] The_Dying_Flutchman 17 years ago

Not without the toilets overflowing.

Nothing is more beautiful than nothing.

[–] zen2878 17 years ago

Funny thing is that I view mainstream christianity as a cult so I really dont care how an anti views our faith. Also, you dont really need permission on how you view any religion.

[–] nicolecw2005 17 years ago

This has absolutely nothing to do with the movie and the absolute horror of what those specific mormons did to those innocent people. Not to mention the fact that the current LDS church doesn't recognize that such horror took place, nor the horrors that are still occurring where men are considered above women in that religion. Mormom women don't have the highest anti-depressant pill consumption just for fun. Fundamentalism with any religion is terrifying and as this movie shows horrible acts have occurred due to people's 'sheep' mentality and what they believe to be 'God's' word, along with the power hungry and perverted men (Warren Jeffs is a prime example).
There are great people even in the mormon church, but defending murderers doesn't do anyone any good either.

[–] zen2878 17 years ago

Wow are you gullible. Here's an idea, go read the Didache.

[–] nicolecw2005 17 years ago

And wow are you in denial... should've known better then to even answer a comment by someone who would defend such a full of *beep* religion... it's called experience and knowledge. You might not want to believe what every 'Bishop' says to you as the God given truth and learn to think on your own for a change. God gave us brains for a reason, use it. Try reading 'Under the Banner of Heaven' although, I'm sure you'll think of something, anything not to believe the hard truth that's right in front of your very eyes. Good luck with that.

[–] zen2878 17 years ago

Wow, guess what I read it. Any other books you want to recommend? By the way, why dont you do a little research on the topics in that book instead of letting the author form your opinion for you. Oh that's right you wouldnt want to actually use your brain to research, as evidenced by your thinking the Didache has anything to do with LDS. Which was my point, I wouldnt recommend any LDS readings to you, not worth the effort. But you probly believe every little thing whispered to you as evidenced by recommending a book so chock full of inaccuracies its not funny. I dont suppose you have cross checked even one thing in that book. That showed a real lack of honest integrity.

Another funny thing is that she accuses Mormons of the very thing christian always do. They listen to every thing their preacher tells them. LOL. Typical gullible christian.

[–] nicolecw2005 17 years ago

ha ha too bad I'm not a Christian dumbass... I believe in Faries and Angels and believe in Heaven on Earth, try that for spirituality and happiness, something that will obviously take you a long time to find, but you'll eventually get there. Namaste

[–] zen2878 17 years ago

Well congrats. I have no problem with you believing in faries or angels. Or whatever other interesting beliefs you have. Your beliefs do not negate the fact that you dont have a clue about true LDS history. I dont care whether you believe it or not but your ignorance on the subject matter definitely shown through, or do you care to clarify what you said? I am specifically referring to your woman are 2nd class citizens in LDS religion. True LDS theology does not teach that despite what your own opinions are. So if you view the LDS woman as 2nd class citizens in LDS church that is your perogative, as a LDS man nothing could be further from the truth.

By the way I am completely happy in my faith, meaning its something I have already found and am not searching for. Thanks though, your concern is touching.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] elpony99 17 years ago

Ahh...JT, I see you still can't get beyond the ad hominem attacks.

"nazi TBMs like you..."

You really should learn how to think, it'll help your arguments quite a bit. Maybe when you are able to express an opinion without attacking somebody or a group of people in the process, then what you have to say will be worth listening to.

[–] zen2878 17 years ago

Does this mean you are wearing Nazi shoes? Or are you confessing to being one of the few people who supports the concentration camps of the Nazi's. LOL. Hey JT have you started to think for yourself yet or are you still following every outlandish claim your minister gives you. Christianity should be proud of the mindless drones it has helped create.

[–] geode 17 years ago

This has absolutely nothing to do with the movie and the absolute horror of what those specific mormons did to those innocent people. Not to mention the fact that the current LDS church doesn't recognize that such horror took place, nor the horrors that are still occurring where men are considered above women in that religion. Mormom women don't have the highest anti-depressant pill consumption just for fun.

I don't know what horrors you are thinking about in terms of men being considered superior to women in the Mormon church, but I have always heard that the depression level in Mormon women is higher than average due to the way the Mormon chuch encourages them to strive for perfection, to be a super mother, super wife, etc. Trying to reach such unrealistic goals causes depression in many when they fail in some ways. The LDS church has recognized that the horror at Mountain Meadows is historic reality. From Mormon apostle Dallin H. Oaks in the recent PBS documentary "The Mormons"...

I don’t remember when I first heard about the Mountain Meadow Massacre. It was, I think, in a classroom, probably high school level, maybe college, I heard that the terrible atrocity was perpetrated by the Indians in southern Utah. I didn’t grow up in southern Utah and wasn’t immediate to it, so it was just something, and it wasn’t a matter of concern. Later on, in my readings of Church history (this would be college, graduate-school level), I learned that local Church leaders had been participant with the Indians in this exercise. Later, the more I learned about it the more responsible the local Church leaders were.

As a fourth- or fifth-generation Mormon growing up in Utah — but not in the area where the Mountain Meadow Massacre happened — I have learned about that tragic episode, and my heart has gone out to the descendants of those who perpetrated that atrocity and to the relatives of those who suffered it. I can only imagine the kind of pain that comes from contemplating the involvement of those that you love in such a tragic episode in the history of the West, so unexplainable. I have no doubt on the basis of what I have studied and learned that Mormons were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in killing. What a terrible thing to contemplate, that the barbarity of the frontier and the conditions of the Utah War, whatever provocations were perceived to have been given, would have led to such an extreme episode, such an extreme atrocity perpetrated by members of my faith. I pray that the Lord will comfort those that are still grieved by it and I pray that He can find a way to forgive those who took such a terrible action against human beings.

http://lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=f11cb868474e3110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=9ae411154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD

After covering up the Mountain Meadows massacre for years, the church is supporting an exhaustive Mormon research effort to leave no stone unturned. The findings, unflattering in spots, are being broadcast worldwide in the latest edition of the church's magazine.

"It's clear that at very important levels the church is opening itself in ways that it had not felt comfortable with [before]," says Sarah Barringer Gordon, a law professor and religion expert at University of Pennsylvania. "People [in Utah] really understand — perhaps as they hadn't until the last five, six years or so — that there's a need and a possibility for real investigation and acceptance of a painful past."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/24/national/main3201113.shtml

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] nicolecw2005 17 years ago

Well said and well written :) May everyone go forward on their path to forgiveness, truth and happiness

[–] SynchroKen 16 years ago

Tithing is "optional" eh?

1. You obviously were not a very "active" mormon.
2. Tithing is NOT optional.
3. One will NOT be baptized without agreeing to pay this in advance.
4. A male will NOT receive the priesthood without paying tithing.
5. A couple will NOT be allowed to marry in the temple witout paying tighing.
6. In ALL cases of leadership in the church, if one is not paying tithing, one is not even considered.
7. Leaders of the church often and regularly tell members they will not go to heaven ("The Highest Degree of The Celestial Kingdom") if they do NOT pay tithing.

No, they won't excommunicate you for not paying, but don't lie and say it is "optional." That is NOT true at all.

Another EX-MEMBER here. A truthful one.

[–] chuckin_chad 16 years ago

Tithing is just as optional as any other commandment in the LDS church. You could agree to pay it and then be baptized and not pay it. You could get the priesthood and not pay a thing if you don't make any money. The logical question is why would you want to be active in the LDS church and not pay tithing? That would be like believing in physical fitness and never working out. Viewing tithing as some kind of hurdle involved with being a part of the church is just a viewpoint. Some people look at a mountain and see an obstacle and others look at it as their weekend hobby. If you see it as an obstacle you probably shouldn't climb that mountain.

Personally I don't go to church or pay anyone tithing, so I could care less. I used to at one time in my life, but things have changed. One of the dictionaries definitions of cult is "a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents". In this case the LDS church is a cult along with any other organized church. Obviously when this word is used the function usually takes on a negative connotation, and that may be justified. But until members of the LDS faith start suicide bombing rather than helping their community I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

[–] Ghost_Writer1 16 years ago

You know, it's funny how this "movie discussion board" has quickly turned to not discussing the movie at all, but discussing the beliefs of the LDS church. To tell you the truth, I have never seen this movie nor do I plan on watching it. I was just curious what might come up if I searched the name Joseph Smith. It's funny because this discussion thread has been going on for months and has reached 9 pages. Even some of the discussion boards in the Harry Potter area havent gotten this much attention, and I'm guessing from the reviews, this attention hasn't come because of the films exceptional quality or accuracy. There seems to be something about the LDS faith that draws people. Joseph Smith wrote that the Lord told him that his name would be had for good and evil among all nations. This prophesy is fulfilled, largely thanks to the efforts of critics of the church. I think what it all comes down to is if for whatever reason, a person chooses to believe in something, some of them will just believe with no questions asked while others will justify their belief by excepting the verison of the facts that support it. The same goes for those who choose not to believe. Some go on not believing no questions asked, while others seek to justify their unbelief. It surprises me that so many are so adamant about trying to tear down others beliefs. Although some of the defenses against critisisms posted here have been deemed implausible. I haven't read any that are impossible. Matters of faith cannot be measured by these means. In order to accept any religion that believes in a higher power, one must learn to accept the implausible.

[–] geode 16 years ago

There seems to be something about the LDS faith that draws people. Joseph Smith wrote that the Lord told him that his name would be had for good and evil among all nations. This prophesy is fulfilled, largely thanks to the efforts of critics of the church.

As some people might say, Joseph Smith was a "somebody." Critics have assured that his name will continue to be revilved. Mormons have made sure that he is still fondly honored.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] southrules 16 years ago

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5WbB9FgazJk

"All the donuts have names that sound like prostitutes"
-Tom Waits

[–] guox0032 16 years ago

I was in Mormon Church for a while too, it is definitely a cult. But still I am agnostic, I think all religion starts as a cult. Mormon is no exception, it is a cult. And the ultra converatism associated with them will only harm this country even more.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] jeffwcos 16 years ago

For instance, the Bible says you shall never add or take away anything from the Bible which is exactly what the book of Mormon did.

You need to go back and study that passage. The reference that is typically cited for this is was written by John at the end of the Book of Revelations. But, chronologically speaking, that book was not the last one written. Further, the "Bible" did not exist at the time that John wrote that passage. Combine those two facts along with what is written in Deuteronomy (I'll let you look up that one) and it is fairly easy to conclude that John had to have been referring solely to his writings, not the entire Bible.

[–] dzbiegiel 16 years ago

what do you mean it is not a cult?

[–] keithfehr 16 years ago

When people say Mormonism is a cult I think they are talking theologically not socially. I teach sunday school in an adult class and have often mentioned how in a lot of ways I wish our church members would act more like the mormons. I know older people who had Mormans come to their door and they would tell them they were Baptist and not interested. The Mormons would come back often to check up on her and help with yard work. most of them are great people who realy care. This movie may or may not be acurate but it has no bearing on what the people are like today. but still theologically I have a lot of problems with what Mormons believe from a biblical stand point. 1). I don't believe Jesus was created the bible says he is eternal and is God. 2). I don't believe I will one day become a God I think if that were true the bible would have made that very clear. I could say more but I hate long posts. I guess the shortest way to say it is I may not like Mormonism but I do like all Mormons

[–] bytebear 16 years ago

In response to your second point, I thought I would share a few Biblical verses for you to peruse:

Gen. 1: 26 let them have dominion.
Gen. 3: 22 man is become as one of us.
Lev. 19: 2 (1 Pet. 1: 16) be holy: for I . . . am holy.
Ps. 8: 5 thou hast made him a little lower than the angels.
Ps. 8: 6 madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands.
Ps. 82: 6 ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High.
Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father.
Luke 24: 39 spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
John 10: 34 (Ps. 82: 1-8) Is it not written in your law . . . Ye are gods.
Acts 17: 29 we are the offspring of God.
Rom. 8: 17 heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.
2 Cor. 3: 18 changed into the same image from glory to glory.
Gal. 4: 7 if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Eph. 4: 13 Till we all come . . . unto a perfect man.
Heb. 12: 9 be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live.
1 Jn. 3: 2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him.
Rev. 3: 21 him that overcometh will . . . sit with me in my throne.

[–] arutha10002 16 years ago

bytebear's post is awesome, but I still have the ask the question I asked before(to another person):

What makes Mormons more cultish than any other religion? Christians specifically, but Buddhists, Muslims, Sikhs, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like all share so many similarities with Mormons that I can't see how any one group can be singled out above another as a "cult".