MovieChat Forums > September Dawn (2007) Discussion > TRUE FACTS FROM AN EX-MEMBER HERE!

TRUE FACTS FROM AN EX-MEMBER HERE!

posted 17 years ago by gsmith83-1
280 replies | jump to latest

I was born and raised in the LDS faith, and only a few years ago "quit". I'm here to tell you that the following are FACTS based upon my own experiences.

1. I've never met a nicer person than my ex-bishop.
2. Tithing, or giving 10% of your income to the church, is optional. What religion doesn't accept donations?
3. My family was very poor for a while, and the church helped us financially.
4. Mormons DO NOT have horns surgically attached to their heads... I'm just tired of hearing about this one.
5. I quit the church out of personal beliefs, and I wasn't harassed or kidnapped or anything.
6. The LDS church is NOT a cult. Get a life, people.
7. The best representation of mormonism from an outside perspective would probably be from South Park. I know, it sounds dumb, but its true!

Anybody else have anything to add? I'm sure I'm gonna get some idiots saying some crazy things, but I can handle it! I'm a big boy.

[–] blwilmeth 12 years ago

I get a considerably different story from former members of the LDS Church (here in Northern Utah). I'll give you a pass on the issue of surgically attached horns, and the issue of "niceness" is hard to quantify; other than that, blood atonement was practiced and polygamy IS practiced. My wife and I (not Mormons) have been "sealed" in a religious service that seeks to extend the benefits of Mormonism to us without our knowledge. "Milk before meat" is a Mormon view that holds that some truths are so amazing that supplicants can be deceived about the true nature of the church to entice them to join. Mormons do not believe that the blood of Jesus has "saved" them (unless you count the drops of blood He sweated in the garden the night before), so they are a cult. (Why should you care?)

Interesting bunch of folks.

[–] geode 12 years ago

My wife and I (not Mormons) have been "sealed" in a religious service that seeks to extend the benefits of Mormonism to us without our knowledge.

Somehow I doubt this. You would have to both be dead for this to have occured, as far as I can determine.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] blwilmeth 12 years ago

Nope. Couples can be "sealed for time and eternity" while they are alive (without their consent or knowledge). It is true that once both are dead, the same ceremony can occur for a couple; or Mormon prayers can be offered for an individual who has died so that he or she can take advantage of Mormon eschatology and receive better accomodations in the afterlife. Neither of these concepts have any basis in the Bible.

Mormonism has no meaningful connection with Orthodox Christianity. They use some of the same names, but they deny "original sin." As such, they do not need a Redeemer except as an exemplar of how to deal with difficult situations (like Jesus sweating blood in the garden ... He can it, they should be able to do it). His death on the cross carries for them no redemptive value as they are not in need of it, they believe.

[–] arutha10002 12 years ago

Wow, 5 years later conversations are still going on. I wouldn't comment except this is such a blatant lie that it's got to be a joke. You can't be "secretly" sealed for time and eternity. It's all quite obvious. First you have set up an appointment to go to the temple for the sealing ceremony. You then take part in the ceremony, where you make vows before the officiator and your chosen witnesses, along with a few friends and family. Then you get a record that such a sealing took place for yourself, and one record sent to Salt Lake. To declare otherwise is like saying "I got married without my consent or knowledge" referring to the official government version everyone else in the US is part of. It's just such a silly statement that anything else you might write can be ignored with a laugh.

[–] blwilmeth 12 years ago

Feel free to believe what you find comforting.

While you're at it, check into blood atonement.

[–] geode 12 years ago

Nope. Couples can be "sealed for time and eternity" while they are alive (without their consent or knowledge). It is true that once both are dead, the same ceremony can occur for a couple; or Mormon prayers can be offered for an individual who has died so that he or she can take advantage of Mormon eschatology and receive better accomodations in the afterlife. Neither of these concepts have any basis in the Bible.

And a couple cannot be sealed without their knowledge while still living. That is simply the way it works. I notice you offer no documentation in support of your claim, as I doubt any can be given.

Mormonism has no meaningful connection with Orthodox Christianity. They use some of the same names, but they deny "original sin." As such, they do not need a Redeemer except as an exemplar of how to deal with difficult situations (like Jesus sweating blood in the garden ... He can it, they should be able to do it). His death on the cross carries for them no redemptive value as they are not in need of it, they believe.

You misread Mormon theology. Although they reject original sin, they feel we do need redemption through Christ's sacrifice. They just don't think it is because of Adam's sin, or being born sinful, just that we will all sin as imperfect beings and will be in need of Christ's Atonement. They believe His death on the cross sealed His sacrifice made in the Garden of Gethsemane where he paid the price of our sins.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] blwilmeth 12 years ago

We are getting near to the point where words cease to have penetrating value, however, here goes. If you are not born carrying the weight of Adam's sin, and your need for a Redeemer springs from your own sinful acts, then there are times when you are free from Adam's sin and your own misdeeds (am I right?).

I read this to mean that it is then incumbent upon the good Mormon to do his best to avoid sin through the offices of his or her own volition. Orthodox Christianity teaches that we are in a continuing state of need for Redemption that serves as the basis for our salvation. An infant needs a Redeemer just as the well-intentioned adult. Paul notes that despite his best efforts, he does what he knows he should not do because he is afflicted with a sinful nature that is remedied only through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross (the blood that cost him his life).

It has never been clear to me why Jesus' anguish in the Garden carries such great weight with the LDS community. What would have been different had he not sacrificed his life as well as his blood on the cross?

[–] geode 8 years ago

We are getting near to the point where words cease to have penetrating value, however, here goes. If you are not born carrying the weight of Adam's sin, and your need for a Redeemer springs from your own sinful acts, then there are times when you are free from Adam's sin and your own misdeeds (am I right?).

I think Mormons feel that the only time one is free of their own sins is directly following baptism. They believe that all sins previous sins are washed away at that point. However, people are all flawed and will commit sins. Although always free of Adam's sin, me will always sin on their own.

I read this to mean that it is then incumbent upon the good Mormon to do his best to avoid sin through the offices of his or her own volition. Orthodox Christianity teaches that we are in a continuing state of need for Redemption that serves as the basis for our salvation. An infant needs a Redeemer just as the well-intentioned adult. Paul notes that despite his best efforts, he does what he knows he should not do because he is afflicted with a sinful nature that is remedied only through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross (the blood that cost him his life).

Yes, Mormons are admonished to avoid sin as best they can, but will fail to do so completely. Therefore Mormons believe that they also are in a need for redemption. An infant does not need redemption since they are thought to be incapable of being accountable for sin. Mormons agree with what Paul said.

It has never been clear to me why Jesus' anguish in the Garden carries such great weight with the LDS community. What would have been different had he not sacrificed his life as well as his blood on the cross?

It really does not carry anymore weight than what other Christians feel about Christ's sacrifice. Mormons just think the main event was in the garden, followed by Christ's sacrifice being sealed by His death on the cross.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] blwilmeth 8 years ago

Despair not, Geode. Your analysis is exactly correct and exactly wrong (at least so far as Orthodox Christianity is concerned). All men (women, children and infants) are from the moment of their creation burdened by the sin of Adam (and Eve!). It took the 'second Adam' to offer the perfect sacrifice to extend the opportunity to avoid the weight of sin (and its long and short term consequences).

If I had been asked to figure out a way to solve this, especially in my unredeemed state, I might not have insisted that Jesus had to suffer and die on the cross for this express purpose (and it was his life, not merely his suffering that offered our pardon). Since I am not God and I was not consulted on the matter, I will simply accept what the Holy Spirit tells me, specifically, that the Bible is a completely accurate depiction of Christian doctrine.

Your point about words not having meaning (any more) is somewhat valid. Talk to a lawyer and I am sure you will come away with and even deeper appreciation for your claim.

It is what it is.

[–] billatherton 12 years ago

Incidentally tithing is not optional if you ever want a temple recommend, which is necessary for "sealing" and "priesthood" ceremonies.
And Mormonism is not Christian as they do not believe in the virgin birth of Christ, and Mormonism is not a monotheistic organization, but a henotheistic one.

It's methodology of isolating members from non-lds does seem to fit the cult label.

[–] mtdoonmeister 10 years ago

This was written by a mormon and is typical church propaganda. The point is, "See? Everyone likes us. Even the ones that quit." There are couple of glaring errors…

Notice the attempts to downplay negative thoughts about the church...

You don't have to pay a tithe; but, if you don't tithe, you don't go to the temple; you don't get your endowments; and can't go to the celestial (highest of the 3 heavens). Temple attendance is the centerpiece of the LDS faith.

You weren't harassed? Did you resign? You must live in the one place in the world (it seems) where there are no missionaries. One job for the missionaries is get people who have become inactive or quit going to church to become active.

THINK for yourself

[–] ulala 9 years ago

hi there,

I have a question for you: What do you think about the presentation of Mormons by John Ford in WAGON MASTER?

And by the way:
I thought the film SEPTEMBER DAWN is a disturbing bit of anti-Mormon propaganda. I know almost nothing about Mormons (except from what I saw in Southpark;O), but I do know a lot about propaganda...

[–] hydra777 9 years ago

September Dawn is not propaganda , it is just bad film making

[–] geode 9 years ago

September Dawn is not propaganda , it is just bad film making

In my opinion it is clearly both.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] braddy4 8 years ago

""2. Tithing, or giving 10% of your income to the church, is optional. What religion doesn't accept donations? ""

If the Mormon religion does not receive 10% from your income then you won't be allowed to worship in the temples, as an ex-Mormon, you surely know the absolute requirements for a Temple Recommend.

Without guaranteeing that you are giving 10% in your interview with the Bishop and Stake President, then you will be relegated to the plain church buildings and will not be part of the Temple elite, or even able to watch your own daughter married in a Temple, since entrance is forbidden to the non tithers.

Not meeting your required tithing relegates you to second class status, forbidding you from being a part of the secret world of the Temples and Mormon ceremonies and in the afterlife as well, so while one can remain a Mormon while not tithing, he will be in an officially and formal lower state within the religion, within this life, and within the next life.

[–] geode 8 years ago

Very true. Tithing is hardly optional in reality. Every year each member is basically "graded" on this in a report sent to Salt Lake City.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...