MovieChat Forums > Vera Drake (2005) Discussion > Abortion: For or Against?

Abortion: For or Against?


Hey peeps,

I have just watched this movie and found it a great movie with important issues.
How does everyone feel about Abortions and Backstreet Abortions.

I personally am 99% AGAINST abortions. The 1% FOR abortion i believe would include young teens pregnant from being Raped, which is morally wrong and it would be extremely difficult to have a baby and as it grows it would traumatize the parent of the rape, and if the baby is put up for adoption the baby would grow up and have alot of questions once it grows up and it would be difficult for the child aswell as the mother.

Its a difficult and confusing subject to talk about, where babies are being killer/Murdered for all the wrong reasons.

How do you feel about abortion and how do you feel about this movie. I feel for Vera she was a good woman who only wanted to help but she didnt know any better and she should have really looked at what she was really doing and that she was killing a human being.

But overall 8/10 movie (Some parts dragged on)

http://www.teenswapworld.cjb.net
Skint? Click the Link

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I am completely neutral about abortion for myself- it would depend on the circumstances. However, I believe every woman has a right to choose, and I think abortion clinics should remain open so that women will be able to do it safely, instead of possibly dying or becoming infertile.
"Love is not about what you are expecting to get- only what you are expecting to give."

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i take the muslim route if the mother's life is in danger... the mother is more important than the baby, if the feotus is aborted then the woman can always have another one. But a family can't work properly without the mother.

apart from that i think that abortion should be aloud in the circustance of rape, my motto is "you live with the consequences of your own actions", and in this situation, its not their choice.

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Yes, thank you. Finally someone else sees the light.



The life of the wife is ended by the knife.

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this is all very fascinating. all of your conversations are good reading. finally watched the movie tonight and it had me thinking.

i'm definitely for abortion across the board. i really despise 3rd trimester abortions, and women who use abortion as birth control, but for far different reasons than the rest of you. also, as far as i have seen they're the rarity and i don't think you can make any universal cases out of them.

i'm happy to volunteer that yes i've had an abortion, and have 110% no regrets at all about it. we were using 2 forms of birth control and both failed. (i had a severe phobia of pregnancy - most people thought i was ridiculous to insist on 2 methods, but i wasn't physically able to take any form of the pill at that time, nor would any doctor agree to sterilize me.) i was unlucky; even back then i never wanted children ever in my life, and that hasn't changed in the intervening years. for me the trauma involved was the conception, which i imagined i could feel and had nightmares about for years afterwards, not the procedure. i also had the opportunity to see the thing when it came out, since i was lucky enough to become part of a study for RU-486. 6 weeks and it was definitely not, in any way shape or form, anything recognizable as anything more than a spot of mucus. the idea that that thing was inside me, sucking on my nutrients, gave me the screaming horrors. i really did, and sometimes still do, equate pregnancy with the movie Alien. (that's what phobias will do to you, folks.)

i have no problem with pro-lifers who are consistent - nor pro-choicers who are consistent. i've seen too many pro-lifers who are for the death penalty because they don't believe in redemption, or who believe war is the best answer for certain world issues. i've also known too many pro-choicers who are against the death penalty because 'killing is wrong.' those people need to re-examine themselves, in my opinion.

all right i've said enough :)

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You must be a real saint, V.

At what stage of development should a human life be given moral status? Starting from the 3rd trimester? Does it magically become a human life with moral status once it passes through the birth canal?

I don't really care, because I don't base my pro-choice arguments on such nebulous concepts. Of course the foetus is alive; of course it is human. The important thing is that it exists within the body of another living, breathing, sentient and individually aware being, and draws on that body for survival. That is a unique situation (except for parasites). Therefore, to make the decision that the foetus will be carried to term regardless of what the mother wants, is to take her free will and control over her own body away from her. No one has or should have the right to do that. No matter what you think should or shouldn't happen in a given situation, it simply isn't up to you, because it's not your uterus that is sheltering the foetus, it's not your blood supply that is supplying oxygen, not your body that is providing sustenance from your own diet, not your birth canal that will have to stretch (extremely painfully, I might add) to allow passage. If you make the decision that the woman cannot abort if she wishes to, you are essentially hijacking her own body for your own moral purposes.

I'm not expecting you to get this, because your complete lack of character was shown by your response to obsessed. I can assure you that if I were in her situation, I would have done exactly the same thing, and guess what? I would have felt no guilt whatsoever. Because I am more important than my ability to reproduce, and my free will, independence, and right to control my life and my body are more important than your ridiculous moralising. And yes, they are more important than an unformed foetus that is parasitically living off my body.


Geez, that Ribena's looking a bit hot...

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God never had mercy on my soul when i was between the ages of 5 and 11, so i have absolutely no worry about it now. the Western versions of God is a vicious, evil, cruel child abuser and rapist, so you can enjoy bowing and scraping to that if that is your wish :)

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I love it, Vendetta jumps from fetus to adolescent. Perhaps that's what went wrong with his development. It would explain a few things. If it can't survive on its own IN TODAY'S TIMES outside the female body, it can be aborted by choice rightly so. "May God have mercy?" Ok then hypocrite, how about leaving this matter up to "God" for each individual and you just worry about yourself? May "God" have mercy on your judgemental soul doing "God's" work for "Him."

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[deleted]

Did it ever occur to you that people have sex for pleasure? Well, not you, apparently, but most of us. We've separated sex from pregnancy for the most part - just about nobody who's not severly hampered by religion abstains from sex until they want to get pregnant. And why should they?

Geez, that Ribena's looking a bit hot...

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[deleted]

It's been done, Eraser. The fact that we as a species have sex for pleasure and not just for reproduction shows that. We have further separated the two by using contraceptives. They've always been around, they're just a little more effective these days. You've actually agreed with me - you can have sex without pregnancy. That's exactly my point. We can and do take control of the process so that sex does not lead to pregnancy unless we wish it. Of course, there are mistakes that happen, human error not least. So, abortion

I'm assuming by your last sentence that you find receiving anal sex pleasurable, but surely you can see that it's not everyone's cup of tea?
Geez, that Ribena's looking a bit hot...

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Yeah but from the way you talk, you're defending the ignorant irresponsible numskulls who rush into things w/o thinking. Dangerous things can be fun but you have to take precautions and expect the worst. Why do you think sport players wear the equipment they do? If a player doesn't wear a cup and gets his nuts smashed, it's his own fault. Same applies here.



The life of the wife is ended by the knife.

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And don't forget that sex for pleasure can be done other ways, like anal
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Oh please, Eraser47, most of the time it's ONLY pleasurable for the man and can be downright painful for the woman

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[deleted]

Love is not about what you are expecting to get- only what you are expecting to give."

funny you seems not to understand completly what your saying and somehow say that and I think abortion clinics should remain open so that women will be able to do it safely, instead of possibly dying or becoming infertile. it does contradict your Quotes pls refrain.. otherwise your confusing me

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Definitely support any decision a woman makes, and will fight for abortion rights to the death.

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I can trully understand the arguement made that abortion leads too people being basically irreasonsiable. But come on people, is it any of your business who gets an abortion. The only reason you should make it your business is if it's your child that wants the abortion. Abortion goes right along the lines with the rights to privacy. I'm assuming none you want to go back to the days when contracaptives (i.e condoms) were actually against the law.

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there should be a discusion or a PROGRAM for unwanted pregancie women which are supported by PROLIFE foundation. like all women should in on a same roof comforting each other and discusssing their concerns that will comfort them and choose LIFE over Abortion.. just like this TV serie Starting Over.. i think its a great idea. cause if a woman who is pregnant and feel alone by himself on that situation most probably she'll choose abortion over Life of her child.

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exactly your words bothers me alot FIGHT TO THE DEATH.. i hope you can sleep well at night..

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(There seems to be alot of people here that are overly concerned about the welfare of the aborted foetus that hasn't even been born yet, but not the welfare of the mothers who have to carry the child, go through labour, cope with and provide for the child afterwards? Where do they come into this?)


you see selfishness is the main reason why you never understand the real meaning of love and sacrifice. if you only think about yourselves and what other might think of you this would really make you more lesser than what you really are, if you give a chance for others like the BABY to have his life in this earth in account of your so called WELFARE, you'll later will find out that true CHARITY is the only reason why theres true love hwen this things doesnt exist in your heart, your not even an bad person but deep inside you is nothing but a SELF CENTEREDNESS person,

take a look on the better side, hardship in life is part of our growing up, and learning giving A CHARITY to other most importantly to the child who has your genes can make this world and your life better, atleast when you past this life your proud to say you did the right thing than regret in the end.

CHARITY is LOVE PROLIFE is CHARITY + LOVE

ABORTION = SELFISHNESS, lack of charity PRO ABORTION is EVIL

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"Well i am really a Anti abortion ever since, even Anti-Contraceptive"

Ok, i can understand people being anti-abortion, even though i am pro-choice myself, but i cant understand anyone being anti-contraceptive. There are pleanty of married couples out there who want to have sex with each other, but dont want children, or dont want amymore children. Are you trying to tell us that they shouldnt be having sex either, or that the only purpose of sex is to reproduce? Having sex is the greatest thing ever. Why do you have these hang ups about it?


http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=regal

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i dont have any stands against the issue of Married people using cointraceptive. but i am only against the misue of such drug many deform and abnormal children results of such use of these drug.. what bothers me is they have created new abortion pill would kill the defenseless babies.. and they call it contraceptive pill rather than abortion pill..

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I don't want to get into the whole abortion debate. Its pointless. People are just to polarized on the subject, and will never change their minds, but about contraceptives. Some people will never get married. You cant expect them to go through life and never have sex. So contraceptives are a must for those people. Even amongst younger teens, it important that they have contraceptives. What we need to do is accept the fact that woman and young girls are out there tonight having sex, whether we like it or not. Surely its much preferable for them and their partners to have access to the proper contraceptives, rather than having unwanted pregnancies, or worse still STD's. I know you are probably arguing on moral and religious grounds, but you have to put those arguments to the side and base your judgments on the facts as they are, and not what you would have them be in an ideal world.

http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=regal

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Amen to what you said. Young people will always be having sex no matter what family/moral code they grow up in. Teach them what you want but armor them to stay safe at the same time. Otherwise it's just a recipe for disaster.

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For the fact they say we cant control our human lust or human weakness is a sign of ignorant character

I hope you get over your fear of sex one day, tom. You certainly seem to have some rather unhealthy issues with it.

Geez, that Ribena's looking a bit hot...

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Abortion may be morally wrong; Women who have had the procedure aren't sat there thinking to themselves how great they are for terminating a pregnancy. However, imposing restrictions on the right to do what you want, when you want with your own body is also very wrong. Abortion was illegal, and look how that turned out. Women of all ages died from infections due to careless back street abortionist that had no idea what they were doing. This way, not only was a pregnancy lost, but the woman carrying the fetus was also lost. I don't understand how people can be so 'pro-life' and only care about the fetus, not the Woman who is actually a person living their life. Tell me, is that really pro-life?

You should never judge another till you have walked in their shoes. And no, I do not mean that just because you have found yourself pregnant, that this gives you a right to judge a Woman who has decided to go ahead with an Abortion. Each story is unique and different, therefore, who are we to dictate what a person must do when like I've stated, we don't understand how they're feeling, or what they have been though?

Do I agree that Abortion is used as a method of birth control? I certainly do not, but I'm also very much against taking away a Woman's right to do what she wants with her OWN life, and body for that matter.

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i'm very much against it. i'd rather be born and brought up in a terribly crappy life with a single teenage mother who was raped and has to work 3 jobs a day to get a can of soup then to not live at all.
to quote the P.O.D song - Abortion is murder, there's nothing you can say or do, to justify the fact there's a living breathing baby inside of you.
cheers
KZ

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[deleted]

you make a very challenging statement said with intelligence and prose. however, i want to quote you on something you said.
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"However, where you make your mistake is in believing that you have the right to decide for me what my actions will be. You have no rights whatsoever to determine my morality nor dictate what I should or should not do. You have the rights to your own choices for your own person, and no one else's. Each person's life is theirs by divine right."

and most specifically the part where you say:

"You have the rights to your own choices for your own person, and no one else's. Each person's life is theirs by divine right."
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i know you're heart was in the right place, but aren't you contradicting yourself? you didn't give the baby a choice. you decided his actions and his choices - not the baby itself. you didn't give the baby a right whatsoever to determine his morality.
i'm not trying to sound prickish here. you did what you did, and no one can change it. but i find it interesting that you're getting upset at people for trying to do to you exactly what you did to your children. you were dead right when you said "each person's life is theirs by divine right". it's sad that so many of us take that away from others.
cheers, take care
KZ

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I'm in total shock with lightwing. The fact that she thinks that her personal issues are more important than any life is just selfish and more than a little unethical. I agree completely with gilbertgumphrey. You have no right to make decisions for others, especially the ones that end up in death. You may not of seen these as people yet, but be assured that they were people inside of you. People that you killed, without any thought of what they might want. And you may say that they don't know what they want but to quote you, "You have the rights to your own choices for your own person, and no one else's."

Wow...thats a little strange. By your logic you have no right to make choices for anyone else, but wasn't that exactly what you did to your three unborn children.

VS

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[deleted]





There have been who-knows-how-many-million posts here, ranging from all kinds of people, male and female, pro and con, religious and not... People saying "You're free to decide" and ones saying "Not when there's death involved" others say "It's never justifide" while some say "in rare cases".
Some war indeed, and there will never be a conclusion, or resolvement.

Well, if you are against it or not, one thing is for certain. When we're all dead, we're gunna find out which was right. That goes for both sides.








The World Is Quiet Here. -LS

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You are the first one that makes sense, to me anyway.
This is one discussion that will never end, that's for sure!!

Good point Celebrian......

"If only the good people go to Heaven, it must be a boring place"

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lightwing1, that's a powerfully compelling & compassionate piece you wrote in December.

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I am going to be very, very blunt, and this may disturb you. Don't like it? Don't read it.

I am pro-legal-abortion. I am pro-choice. I can't stand that "My body, my choice" crap because it is not just your body, but I do understand that women choose it for a great many reasons.
Is it right or wrong? We can talk till we're all blue in the face and never come up with one answer or another.
Should it be legal? Yes. Without a doube, yes. If it's not, women will do it anyway. Legallity has never stopped anyone from doing anything before.
Would you rather go with someone to a clean, safe clinic where she'll be well taken care of, or find her dead in a puddle of blood with a coat hanger (or similar) between her legs? Either way, she has made her choice.
There is no reason to call a woman a babykiller. Yeah, if someone is considering it and you don't agree, let them know, but don't be a jerk about it. It is not an easy choice, and the last thing a woman in that position needs is to be made to feel like the scum of the earth because she made a decission for reasons you may not even know.

I'm a HippyGoth. Smiley faces with fangs, grey-tone tie-dye, and so on.

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[deleted]

So you'd have two people dead?
And people call pro-choicers Nazis.
EDIT - that last comment was directed to Eraser (and perhaps one or two others), not to pro-lifers in general.

I'm a HippyGoth. Smiley faces with fangs, grey-tone tie-dye, and so on.

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im tolerant although i wouldnt have one myself.

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[deleted]



A key point of the film (and in reality) is that abortion exists, has existed in most cultures and at most times in history. The decision is whether or not we want safe, respectful, fully advised abortions or dangerous, back-alley procedures that put women and everyone involved at risk. It's a relatively simple equation, actually. I don't think you'd find too many people "for" abortion in and of itself. What they would be for is keeping government out of the personal lives of its citizens. This, of course, is a completely Conservative position..

My personal rule of thumb is that if you are anti-choice but have not yet adopted at least one child, then your vote doesn't count.

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Exactally, Will. Exactally.

I'm a HippyGoth. Smiley faces with fangs, grey-tone tie-dye, and so on.

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Very well put Will

"You're too much for me, Ennis, you son of a whoreson bitch. I wish I knew how to quit you."

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I dont see what all the fuss about abortion is. they abort the BUNCH OF CELLS long before it develops into a foetus so really its like having an abces removed. Its far better to have an abortion than to bring a child into a FULL LIFE of unhappiness if you cant love it properly and give it the care it needs

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