I respect your opinion, please know that first.
To *me* there is nothing going on there, and it kind of upsets me when people intimate that, because it says (in essence) that two brothers can't be *too* close without homosexual implications. My brother and I are very, very close and we hug, and every once in a while I kiss him on the cheek (something left over from being little boys). Sometimes we'll walk with our arm around one another, but we both are heterosexual. Neither of us have the least desire to be sexual with a man... no offense to gay folks. There was never any sexual experimenting between the two of us when we were younger, or ever (for that matter).
It's just sad that many heterosexual men frown on men being affectionate with each other, which causes many men to shun that, and then many homosexuals seem to be quick to apply the label of "latent" homosexual, which causes men to avoid thave even more.
In the Bible, Jonathan and David were extremely close, closer than brothers. I believe the reason why their loving friendship is expounded on in such detail in the Scriptures, is because God wanted to show us how excellent and close our relationships could be with our friends if we honor Him (and it had other applications as well). However, some gays have labeled their relationship as homosexual and used that to justify homosexuality as sinless in the eyes of God (through some pretty poor and loose scholarship).
The result of all this is that many straight men fear being "too close" to other men and almost completely abstain from any physical demonstration of love with another man. This is very say and wrong and sends all the wrong messages to our children. We tell our male children that it is okay to hug their male friends, and even put their arms around each other, but when they get a bit older we frown upon that and teach them that being affectionate with other men is wrong, strange or even "gay". It extends far beyond physical demonstrations of love, including verbal expressions as well. A great deal of Western society teaches men to not express too much emotion, to hold in our feelings and never reveal our heart, with few exceptions. The ramifications of all this is that many, many men hold inside their angst, their hurt, pain and even their joy. All too often the only people who will ever get a glimpse of a man's heart is his lover or wife, and with many, many men even their lover won't be privy to that.
I think it is important to get the message out that it is okay for men to be open and honest with one another, and it is okay to be affectionate as well. It was only after I became a Christian that I allowed myself to tell my closest friend that I loved him. He was a Christian and frequently had told me he loved me. At first I was freaked out by this, and even thought that maybe he was secretly gay. Over time I realized that instead, he was the best friend I had ever had and not gay at all. For the first time in my life I allowed myself to tell a man (who wasn't my father or brother) that I loved him. We have been friends for over 25 years and we are still very close friends (he was best man at my wedding and I was his at his wedding). This relationship, more than any other, taught me what being a real friend was all about and that it was okay to love a man and tell him so.
I would think that gay men would be very quick to endorse my way of thinking as well, for two reasons. One, many gay men express frustration and anger that lots of straight men think that if a man is gay he wants any man he sees or speaks to. It often makes it difficult for gay men to have friendships with straight men. Two, if more men realized that it is okay to be close and affectionate with male friends, possibly attitudes towards gay folks would become more positive.
The brothers in Boondock Saints aren't gay, and they have no "romantic" connection going on. Instead, they are simply close brothers, who love one another and aren't afraid of expressing that in appropriate ways. The fact that a straight man (or a gay man) would perceive their relationship as having "sexual overtones" is sad and wrong and brings into sharp relief the fact that Western men have twisted ideas about appropriate expressions of love between male friends or relatives. Being close and affectionate with a man, *especially* one's brother is *not* wrong, and does *not* indicate there are "sexual overtones".
"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus
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hairplay-1
16 years ago
i respect your opinion too, especially since it's very well articulated.
you have a great point and i hope some people that read your post take something away from it. it *is* sad that most men feel they can't show affection without being judged and i wish that wasn't the case.
however, this movie/post isn't about you and your brother, it's about two fictional characters and as the viewer, i can take anything i like from the movie. it would be different if i claimed that there was brother incest in this movie and how awful and immoral that is, but i'm not saying that. infact, the only reason i posted about the boondock saints was because i know several other people that had the same thoughts as i did, found it hot and got enjoyment from it. i'm just sharing the love of these story lines. it's a taboo topic anyway so i find it funny that i'm having to defend my view on a board about 'trying to find more incest movies'. ^-^
it might be wishful thinking, you might disagree with it, and even the director and actors might think it's ridiculous, but it's a movie. it's a fictional movie. and since it isn't said that it *isn't* so, i'm still going to think it is.
it's not cases like this that create the fear in men to be affectionate, it's when they get ridiculed and discriminated for it that it becomes a problem.
i'm doing neither, so, though you raise a good point, i don't feel like it applies to this movie watcher's take on the boondock saints.
thanks for your thoughts either way. i think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
and i think it's great that you can have a relationship like that with your family without it being weird. i know plenty of people who have the same thing (including me and my brother) and i've never really thought twice about it..
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reeldramaqueen
16 years ago
Has anyone mentioned "Eve's Bayou"? Father-daughter passionate kisssing
If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!
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Bladerunner
16 years ago
Well, I certainly agree that you have the right to your opinion, and your take on the Boondock Saints. If you want to find something "hot", hey... more power to you.
The only exception I had was that finding stuff like that in places where (I believe) it is simply brotherly love sends a message that you can't express that kind of love for your brother for fear that others are going to see something "kinky".
I just think as a society we are just SO preoccupied with sex, and finding it in the strangest places. I mean, last night I'm watching a football game with my boys and there is this Domino's commercial where the guy says to his girlfriend (in a sexy way), "Domino's says we have 30 minutes... can you think of something we can do in 30 minutes?!?!" Then she says, "What are we going to do with the other 28 minutes", to whit he gets this embarrassed look on his face. And I'm sitting there going, holy crap! Not only do they use sex to sell friggin' pizzas, but they even toss in a crack about pre-mature ejaculation!!!
Anyway, your opinion isn't going to bring down the free world, I just think it injects sex where sex simply *isn't*, and it implies that brothers can't be *too* close or someone is going to think they're kinky.
So, as you said, we must agree to disagree.
As far as the possible hypocrisy of cracking on your opinion in the "incest movie" thread (which by the way, I started, and it is my list at the top of this thread), this thread is about movies where the incest is *overt*. What I was looking for, and why I started this thread, was to find movies where the incest is very clearly intended by the filmmaker... incest that is either on screen, or clearly implied (or alluded to) by the filmmaker.
Maybe that is too narrow an objective, but there it is. However, that said, I have no objection to you expressing your opinion here, none whatsoever! I just took exception to implying that brothers could only be *so* close, without it becoming sexual. I didn't intend to oppress your opinion in this thread.
"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus
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hairplay-1
16 years ago
i don't think brother's can only be *so* close before it becomes sexual, that's ridiculous. i've seen brothers or sisters kiss on the mouth and i didn't think it was sexual, me and my brother hug long hugs sometimes and i don't think it's sexual. if you want to think that's what i meant, go ahead. but that's not what i meant or what i think..
i took this movie this way 'cos i think the actors were hot, i think it was an easy fan girl thing to think and i was like 16 at the time hanging out with another girl friend who was looking for the same thing. so, yeah, it's kind of natural in my opinion to come to a conclusion like this. we were more into having fun and less into being anal about hollywood's obsession with sex. humans are sexual creatures. i do think that our culture has taken it WAY too far, but you can't get upset everytime someone finds something erotically pleasing in a movie just because you don't see it. no one is forcing this opinion on you, i simply threw the movie title out there for anyone who wanted to see it the way i saw it.
now anyone on this thread that wants to know about possible incest in the boondock saints has two opposing opinions that they can see, and after seeing it themselves they can make their own judgment. frankly, i don't really care what they decide to think.
i think at this point we should just end this conversation. we're obviously not going to find a mutual agreement here or understanding.
nice debate, take care, no hard feelings. ^-^
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