Beautiful Propaganda.


I don't know if anybody sensed this idea of Japanese propaganda in the movie, but I sure did. I may be overstating it, but the element is definately there. The mysterious man represents the country itself, Japan, and the actress symbolizes the Japanese people. The whole story of searching for that person that the actress love so much is the actual search for the dignity and love for Japan. Do you remember a line in the movie where the actress says, "I will never betray him!". It is a subliminal message to the Japanese to never betray Japan. Also, in the first scenes of the actress's memories, there is a reference to Japan's invasion of Manchuria. The movie talks about how the Japanese soldiers are fighting for their "country" and how they want to serve their country. We all know that Japan's attack on Manchuria was horrible and hostile. Not many people know how strong the Japanese propaganda is. Not many people know that the Japanese school books lie about the wars in the 20th century. Those books justifices their attack on Asian countries and teaches young Japanese that "they" were the ones that were tricked. Yes, it still goes on these days. Many Asian countries criticize Japan for it, but Japan is too strong a country to oppose harshly. Anyway, you have to understand that kind of "strong nationalism" is sometimes corporated in the Japanese movies. Just be aware of it. You have to read between the lines.

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"I don't know if anybody sensed this idea of American propaganda in the movie, but I sure did... Many Western countries criticize Japan for it, but America is too strong a country to oppose harshly. Anyway, you have to understand that kind of "strong nationalism" is sometimes corporated in the American movies. Just be aware of it. You have to read between the lines."

Bozo.

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I noticed something about these propaganda/ political sybolism posts...

You can make one for ANY movie!

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Hmm. What you're saying is pretty deep. But to be honest, I think you're reading a bit much into it. I do agree there was propaganda, but I don't think the entire basis for the movie was to love Japan... lol.

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This is what you call a misinterpretation on a grand scale.

When the Japanese Army embarked on their colonial conquests in the thirties, they were doing what was considered to be a standard practice: expanding their influence throughout the region. They, themselves, did not view this as evil. They saw it as doing what everyone else did. British, French, Portuguese, and Americans all had colonial interests in the region. Hence, any outrage expressed by the European and American communities would ring a bit hypocritical, don't you think? Japanese were just as patriotic as the peoples of any other nation, so it's absurd to make the claim that they were purposefully setting out to do "horrible and hostile" acts.

Japanese text books are written every year and are uniform throughout the public schools. The entire public system is in lock-step, so you can change schools without missing a thing. The strange thing about that is that there is a single point of examination where Chinese, Korean, and Philippine interests can carefully peruse the proposed history text books. What you read about are the concerted screams of the Japanese "whitewashing" history, made by countries with little regard for the truth themselves. If you are trying to make the claim that the Japanese are rewriting history and that it's somehow a purely Japanese characteristic, you are either horrendously ignorant or lying. What history text book ever written has been faithful to the real past? History is always rewritten based on the current point of view--no matter what country you live in. When I was growing up, Christopher Columbus and George Custer were considered great figures. Nowadays, they are both viewed in current history books as evil incarnate. The truth is somewhere in between, don't you think?

The film itself was not an expression of Japanese patriotism at all. Older people have seen the film and can relate many of the movies she played in to actual films with similar plots. It was an artistic triumph.

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You really are an idiot, aren't you. There's a concept you seem to be completely ignorant of: "Point of View." When you go out to mow the lawn, do you consider yourself an evil mass murderer? That's what the buzz around the lawn is. In one hour, you will kill thousands of small, innocent panicking creatures--and you won't feel a bit of regret.

What Japan did during the thirties and the War is undeniably a very bad and evil thing--and there are plenty of people around the Pacific who will remind them of that fact until the Sun goes out. However, those actions are viewed as evil by those with a different point of view than the average Japanese who was living during that era. The average Japanese person in the thirties did not wake up in the morning thinking, "what evil and inhuman deeds can I accomplish today?" Instead, they would open their dialy newspapers and read about the horrible things the white colonial people were doing to the Asian peoples around the Pacific. Just as you, they would honestly think that their point of view was more correct than others' points of view. To them, things Japanese were better. The news and literature written in the only language they could read or understand reinforced that view.

I am not twisting or revising history. I am merely acknowledging a truism that there are very few people in the world who view themselves as truly evil. Even criminals will believe that they are doing the right thing through some form of rationalization. The evil people are always somebody else.

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Really...what a stupid thing to say. Rarely is evil ever intended. It's usually committed by the well intentioned. Or as you say, "people with a different point of view."

Doing horrible things because you think it's right and fun is evil.


Where's your brain? We are on the same page and you don't even realize it. Take what you say above and put it into the original context of the discussion:

The movie talks about how the Japanese soldiers are fighting for their "country" and how they want to serve their country. We all know that Japan's attack on Manchuria was horrible and hostile.


The above makes the claim that Japanese soldiers were not patriotic, but just horrible and hostile. The film depicted ordinary people of the time and, because it was mentioned that one had to serve his (or her) country, it was viewed as a departure from history. I countered that the claim was false with:

Japanese were just as patriotic as the peoples of any other nation, so it's absurd to make the claim that they were purposefully setting out to do "horrible and hostile" acts.


Compare that with what you are quoted at the top of this. The two quotes are not incompatible at all. Again, we are not talking about the criminality of it but the view of the typical person as depicted in the movie. What the Japanese did during the war can be laid directly on the senior leadership at the time. They controlled the news, the literature, and, through various "purification" programs, the language itself. Once the Japanese had their victory in the Russo-Japanese war in 1905, they were on a militarist bent that was going to eventually doom them.

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This is actually a pretty good film--and you should watch it. When you do, you will see that the original premise of this thread was baloney.

The interesting part of this is the very original way the story flows. A director of a small documentary film company and his assistant interview an aging and reclusive film star. They are all drawn (by imagination?) into sequences from her life and the films she was in. Though it is just as serious and deep as any live-action film, it could only have been done in animation.

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I'm no anime fan, but this is a really good movie. It's a great example of a movie which could have been made live-action, but just wouldn't work as well; things that would have had to be handled by distracting special effects, actor-switching, and the ever-deadly old age makeup can just happen.

It's also a sweet and romantic movie with an interesting philosophy. I'd recommend it.

I am curious about something, though. You claim to have not seen this movie, and that you don't like anime. If that's the case, what made you decide to come to this board and start haranguing people?

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Mmm. Sounds very mature.

I don't think I'm sexy, but I'm a girl who can dance.

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[deleted]

Very witty, Wilde. It's the dancing that's sexy, no lie.

Have you made similar suggestions to people naming themselves after characters in movies or calling themselves things like "nasty_killer"?

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C'mon this is not America, where everything is propaganda! Just look at the Holywood movies 99% of them are pure brainwashing propaganda! BTW Americans are some of the most nationalistic people I've ever met.

You're so crazy about everything been propaganda that you see it even in this movie about love and life!

I think your ideas are just rediculous!

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I completely agree with central p.

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...WOW

thank you for stereotyping most of america.

Honestly, do you think that just because we are americans that you can subject us to prejudice like this? We are people too, you know, above being an "american."

And I'm also going to add this in: Americans are some of the LEAST nationalistic people I have met. We are so susipicious of our government and critical of it, or at least 99% of the people I have met IN AMERICA are like that. So, unless you have lived in america and have been exposed to a wide range of people, how would you honestly know what we are like?

Every person is different, please consider this as well.

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read the original post and... what?... whom?! huh??? Why would you go looking for that in a story like this???

I'm getting really tired of people that feel the need to dig up a feather and make, not just a chicken, but a whole chain of chicken-farms...

go back and whatch the movie again, maybe you'll se some of the fundamental concepts in the movie like, for instance; she became an MOVIE ACTRESS in WW2 in hopes of getting to her love, and what was the movies about in that era? yes, then of course she made propaganda movies... just like in america in the same era... now get over it... j-j-j-just watch the goddamn movie and try not to blow things out of proportion!

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Well, first off, the movie was great. Second, this isn't the only anime that gives off a nationalism-vibe. Many animes have this. Some encourages nationalism and some questions it. Some would say Akira was also something about it. Remember that informations should always be question when reading this book. And yes, this type doesn't just occures in Japanese films, but everywhere. Nothing to be worried about though, unless your easily the type to believe everything you watch in movies. Try reading "Anime from Akira to Princess Mononoke : Experiencing Contemporary Japanese Animation," it's not much by it was interesting if your not familiar to Japanese culture and Anime.

Maybe in your next life, you'll believe the Zodiac when it tells you to cut the red wire.

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"Not many people know that the Japanese school books lie about the wars in the 20th century"

You are WRONG only 0.4 about percent of Japanese school books lie. The rest tell history as recognized by the west. The actual complaint aboubt Japanese history books, which you would know if you HAD ACTUALLY READ ONE, was that they largely cover 1945 onwards and skip WWII.

The Japanese history society that writes those bad books is discretited and it is considered to be a sick denial in Japan. Most Japanese teachers refuse to teach from these disstorted books. It has coverage in only a handful of schools. More people have complained about distorted Japanese text books, than have actually studied from them.

Unlike countries like China, where history is censored and where the government says which books can and cannot be printed, ALL Japanese have access to books by writters like Honda Katsuichi who tell the truth. They also have FULL access to weestern and Korean text books and history books, and an UNCENSORED internet.

Maybe you should visit Japan rather than believing what you read in muck raking tabloids.

A few Japanese NAZI exist, its true and I can't deny it, but most Japanese know and undderstand the turth.

English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.

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20 million Chinese were killed in WW2. That's over 3 times as many Jews (and that isn't even accounting for other Asian ethnicities). In Germany, it is a crime to deny the Holocaust. In Japan, government leaders publicly go to pay their respects at the shrines of war criminals.

You make it sound like only a few sickos in Japan think what they did was "right", when it is a well-documented fact that many high profile government officials, such as the Governor of Tokyo Shintaro Ishihara, have made denial statements on Japanese atrocities.

Is it ok for Germany to marginalize their involvement in war crimes? No. Then why is it ok for Japan?

(And I'll paraphrase Will Smith) Hitler didn't wake up every morning thinking, "What evil, despicable acts against humanity will I commit today?" He genuinely believed he was acting for the good of the German people. That doesn't make his actions any less evil. I'm sure Joseph Goebbels also believed that he was working for the good of his country, but it is NOT OK to kneel before his alter and light incense for him. Why is it ok in Japan?

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You're way off base.

1) Germany's laws against holocaust denial are illegal under international laws mandating free speech. Holocaust denial may not be nice, but the UN convention on Human rights and the EU Human rights charter both grant it legal protection. As does the first Amendment in the US.

2) the shine in Japan is actually the nations war memorial. It existed for over 100 years before WWII. It includes many civilians including children whose evacuation ship was sunk by the allies and students who volunteered as front line nurses during the Battle for Okinawa. Would you deny these people official recognition form the government?

3) Of those 20 million, more than half died due to hunger and exposure, and many would have died regardless of Japanese occupation. At that time China was in a very bad way. Famine was common as was disease. Many of these people also died after having been used as forced labor by the Communists and the nationalists. Many were marched to death. Sure there were horrific atrocities such as Nanjing/Nanking, but not everything was the fault of the Japanese.

4) Maybe you should look at that controversial textbook that keeps getting racked up every five minutes. If nationalism and war denial were wide spread then wouldn't this book be popular? In fact it is used by 0.04% of schools in Japan even though it is given way for free, and many of those schools that do use it are schools for learning disabled children who have to watch every last cent that they spend. Sure, there are a handful of politicians who deny war crimes, but there are US politicians who deny evolution and global warming, not to mention US war crimes.

You obviously know nothing about Yasukuni Shrine or Japan. Let me give you a wakeup call. Former Japanese Prime Minster Koizumi Junichiro is one of the most famous and controversial visitors to Yasukuni, yet he never once offered incense to a single war criminal in his life. He regularly visited the shrine and regularly made offerings there, yet there is no record of him ever making any offerings to anybody ever named as a war criminal. Not once.

Maybe you should look up Japanese culture. Yasukuni is a SHINTO shrine, not a Buddhist shrine. This means that you offer incense to relatives or close friends. It would be meaningless to offer incense to a war criminal unless you were a blood relative, or unless you served under them. In fact it might even anger the war criminal's spirit if a complete stranger made a meaningless offering.

Besides, who are you to say what is and isn't OK in Japan? You're irrelevant, a foreigner with no knowledge of Japanese history or customs. It's not as if Japan is demnading that YOU worship war criminals, is it?

Maybe you should be more concerned about who is buried in Arlington and what they did. There's plenty a man in Arlington who's have been executed as a war criminal by the Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Iraqi, and Afghans if they had half a chance. Every US leader who said that there were WMB in Iraq is a war criminal under international law. And every American who ordered that cluster bombs and Thermobaric bombs be dropped in civilian areas needs putting on trial.

English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.

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Wow, thanks for posting that! It was really interesting and sure puts the movie in a new light. Especially considering that the policeman had killed the man who represented the true Japan and Chiyoko as the people had been searchign in vain.

Definitely the most well assembled and moving propaganda I've seen in a long time.

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I would definitely agree- and thanks for telling me about the poster, I don't remember noticed that detail. :-)
I own Grave of the Fireflies, actually.

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*round of applause* Precisely put, & I quite agree.

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