MovieChat Forums > The Beach (2000) Discussion > Was this a metaphor for the sixties?

Was this a metaphor for the sixties?


I haven't read the book, but I was just thinking: was this like a metaphor for the sixties? Anybody smarter than me got something to comment on that? Elaborate?
Cheers!

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not sure. I just wanted to mention it might be a metaphor to all those communes that sprouted up during the sixties. I don't think any of them "made it". It goes to show communism doesn't work. And this movie reaffirms that. There will always be someone who wants power (in this case Sal)

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more of a metaphore for Society.

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Well, there always has to be a leader in a communist society as well as a capitalist one.

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Well in the book it creates a parallel between Richard's experience on the beach and the Vietnam War... But then the film is a lot different to the book! They kinda ruined it if you ask me.

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There's a huge difference between a communist leader and one in a free market society.

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There's a huge difference between a communist leader and one in a free market society.


Not really.

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Yes really. Communist leaders are totalitarian lunatics - they have to be to force communism on the population (who are capitalist by nature of being human)

Everybody wants to live in the West where we have capitalist liberal democracies. Only over-privileged, naive, bored young people have any interest in the completely discredited ideology of Communism. Most likely they have been indoctrinated into it by their university.

If they took one look at a history book or even existing Communist countries today they’d drop the whole thing like a hot turd.

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No not really. You know nothing about communist leaders. Fascist leaders are totalitarian lunatics. They have to force this forced labor work until you die neo-feudal way of life on us.

"Most likely they have been indoctrinated into it by their university. "
LOL Typical myth believed by uneducated morons. Universities rarely if ever speak anything of communism. If anything they teach economics from the point of view of the what they call the producers and the rest of us are called the "consumers" as in like the matrix, we are their milk cows. The documentary Thrive blows this all out of the water and points out that we are seen as farm animals and each nation is a giant farm. Business Schools in Universities teach young people the most complex and devious ways of how to cheat lie and steal the money out of the uneducated by using capitalism to their advantage and to the disadvantage of the workers and the consumers who are constantly squeezed like lemons until they can produce no more blood. Then they turn around and fool you uneducated sobs into thinking they were teaching communism all along.

Everything used to be free at one time. Food was abundant and everywhere. We used to build one another's homes like the Amish do in the matter of a week for FREE. Now you have to work until you're in your 70s to pay off your home. There was an island in the south Atlantic just like this not too long ago where just dropping your line in the water and slapping the water with a rod would catch a huge tuna. After an hour of fishing and 16 huge tuna later the entire village would eat for free for a week on 1 hour of work. Since it was covered on the Outdoor Life network sports fishermen found out about it. What do you think those bastards did next? You guessed it. All for profits of winning trophies and capitalist profits they fished out the place and now even the sharks are hungry. Under capitalism 50% of the food is totally wasted and yet they are destroying our life support system overfishing the hell out of the oceans, and throwing it out and depleting the soil of nutrients so it requires fossil fuel based fertilizers to replenish it, only to throw 50% of that food out. Look up this headline "Farmers destroying crops". So they've locked up the food, locked up the land and contaminated our water so we have to pay THEM for water.

Everyone in the North and South American west is miserable. Capitalism has destroyed cultures and freedom and collapsed nations. In the Great Recession capitalism had to be bailed out by socialism. This pandemic is the ultimate judgement of the failure of capitalism because consider if this was Ebola. Would they force the planes to stay on the ground if that had gotten out? One wonders. I hope survival would be more important than corporate profits, however the madness of this greed is that it is not likely, they would rather half a billion people die than let their businesses fail.

Everyone wants to make enough money to get out of here. That's the American dream now. There are droves of True Believers like yourself that become so disillusioned with it they want to drop out and move to Thailand and find an easy wife or 3 girlfriends. I know one of these ahole turkey Trumpers.

The only thing hurting communist countries today are the embargoes placed upon them by capitalist ones because they can't dare let it out and be known that everything was free at one time and could be again. This is especially true of Venezuela. Look up: US coup against Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, 2002.
The US has been harassing them and attempting coup after coup upon them for 2 decades just because they were giving their oil away for free and offering it to the poor in the US for free during the Great Recession. It was both a major embarrassment for Bush and made the Big Oil multinationals piss in their diapers that the idea of free energy could be possible. You see they've had this stranglehold upon us forcing us into this ancient POS ICE technology for 140 years and driven us into many deadly and pointless and nearly endless wars because of it. The capitalist west can't bare the fact that some people just want to live as they damn well please and show that an alternative to their slave based society actually exists.

Human nature is genetically designed so that we help one another. Not compete with one another. Not sure where you get your perverted ideas but as relatively defenseless animals we could never have survived in ancient times without cooperation.

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Your desperate defence of Communism - a completely discredited and utterly evil ideology that has the blood of millions on its hands - is convincing nobody. You’re just yet another sad fool duped into that disgusting ideology.

All any sane person need do is take a cursory glance at history, and indeed geography, to see numerous examples of the failed experiment that is Communism. It’s sad what they did to you.

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Way to twist my dislike of fascism into somehow not disliking communism.

Why is it that every single time people speak of freedom you fascists call them communists or socialists?
It's like you can't STAND people's desire to be free.

By the way like you, the communists also hate the environment. Mao's motto was to "Conquer man, nature and the universe."
“Mao often proclaimed his prediction that humans could force nature into obedience. In May 1958, he commented, “Make the high mountain bow its head; make the river yield its way.’
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Quotes/maonature.htm

Mao's War Against Nature - Cambridge University Press
assets.cambridge.org/97805217/81503/frontmatter/9780521781503_frontmatter.pdf

Isn't that interesting how curiously similar that is to the Republican ideology?

Socialism is a scareword they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years. Socialism is what they called Public Power. Socialism is what they called Social Security. Socialism is what they called Farm Price Supports. Socialism is what they called Bank Deposit Insurance. Socialism is what they called the Growth of Free and Independent Labor Organizations. "Socialism" is their name for almost anything that helps all the people. - Harry S. Truman October 10th, 1952.

Like most that never made it past the 12th grade you never learned how to think critically. It is sad what they did to you.

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Quoting someone isn't thinking critically. If you think Truman is an expert on socialism, you're a hypocrite and a moron. Fascism works for it's home nation, Communism doesn't. Not to mention communism is based on the stupid outdated ideas of labor and production.

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Just to let you know those hippy communes aka co-operatives are still alive and even thriving today. They exist not only on a ranch, but in communal housing in the city/suburbs as well.

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Not to mention the Amish who build one another's homes and barns in a week. Meanwhile we are slaving our entire lives away just to afford the little box over our heads.

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It is a metaphor for right now.

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The big difference bewtween communes of the 60's and the one in the film is that the one in the film was vaccuous and stood for nothing other than living idylically, which meant that when it came time to show the flaws they were already obvious. 60's communes had ideas behind them. No one in this movie spoke of anything significant. They had no bigger ideas, no art, no nothing. At one point DiCaprio's narrative even says something about no "B.S. philosophies." Well, philosophies and directions doesn't always equal "cult." The commune in the film qualified as a cult because they let their leader bully them into behavior they didn't all necessarily agree on, until the end, when they saw common sense and left in leiu of being killed.

There are many communes around today, some from the 60's and others from recently. "Communism" does work, and works very well. It's just not for everyone. Nothing is. If it doesn't work for you, then best to stay clear. This is the reason some communes failed. It wasn't for them, and some had no idea what they were doing. For those who do, and like the life, it works fine.

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I'm glad that you mentioned that there were still communes around today, and that some were from the 60s. Somebody up there responded to the OP saying that none of them made it.

Those communes actually had a great philosophy, and it wasn't all Drugs and Free Love. It was that people could live alongside one another, share what they had and that material gain didn't have to be the goal of the members (or the measure of a person's worth.)

I thought it was a great philosophy then, and still don't think it's a bad one, if it's done well. There doesn't have to be Free Love and nudity (unless you just want there to be!!) but there are great points to living in a communal society--such as having a huge familial support system around you, havingf your needs met and having the feeling of accomplishment of being able to help in return-- those are just 2 important ones. Imagine being able to raise your children amongst all the people who love them as much as you do! Isn't it a wonderful thought? We have neighborhoods, friends and extended families in our lives now, but it still isnt the level of family that you would find in a communal society.

I know a lot of people who have argued with me that my thoughts are too naive, simplistic and don't work. Perhaps they are right. But I like to live thinking that this idea is possible.

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Isn't it a wonderful thought? We have neighborhoods, friends and extended families in our lives now, but it still isnt the level of family that you would find in a communal society.


At least in the US people are desperately lonely so "friends and extended families" don't do much.

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So it's the pretensions that make whether a community is legitimate or not?

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Communism only works on a small scale with everyone being on the same page, in perfect agreement with the ideal. Even then, it won't be communism in the purest form. It all goes tits up when it is forced on anyone, has leaders who are "more equal", or becomes too large to manage collectively.

Capitalism works on the basic human principle that we all want stuff and we can all earn it for ourselves, keep it, defend it and use it however we like. It isn't a perfect system but it works better because it aligns with human nature. It is not in our nature to work hard for something and then just give it to our neighbors...and then do that same thing tomorrow and the next day.

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I thought it was more a metaphor dystopia than Communism, although its a bad film.

I'll take Punctuality

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I thought that capitalism works on the principle that money, as a form of power, can be accumulated, that its potential growth is infinite. This is not a human principle, but an economic one. This economic system doesn't exist in order to satisfy the desires or needs of the people, but in order to fulfill this drive for power, using the people's desires and needs to this effect, even creating artificial ones through commercials, mass media etc. So capitalism isn't just a system that just works because it's in conformity with human nature, it actively shapes human nature to conform to the system's needs.

Also the dichotomy between communism and capitalism is only a superficial one. Both systems have exactly the same goal, the difference being only in the guise the hierarchy of power assumes in that society. Whereas in capitalism the power resides with the owners of the capital, the corporations, the state being just a front to legitimize this state of affairs, in so-called communism (I wrote "so-called communism", because the term itself is misleading. Common property under the communist regime is not common as in belonging to everyone, it belongs to the state, and the state is owned by the party hierarchy.) the power resides with the higher echelons of the party hierarchy, which is a corporation that serves exactly the same goal of accumulation of wealth as power. Just look at the Chinese economy and see how successfully they are building capitalism under a communist guise.

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Good discussion, and I'd say the primary difference between Communism and Capitalism is the role of the State. In a managed economy, the State chooses winners and losers. In Capitalism, the free market makes these decisions.

If you look at Communism in practice, you see that when the State is given this sort of total power, its a breeding ground for cronyism and plutocrats. Its why the Soviet Union rotted away and imploded after 7 decades and three generations of untold misery. This is a history lesson kids toady need to learn.

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In communism, the state does not exist. The countries (USSR, China) are socialist, not communist. They aspired to be communist, but never got there.

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Technically, that's true. Marx said that after the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' had been established, and human nature was completely changed, then the State would cease to exist. But that's purely theory, and we know that Marx was completely wrong about human nature.

We can only judge Communism from practice. The USSR and Maoist China were founded on Marxist ideals. These regimes were defined by the totalitarian State. They are examples of Communism. The fact that they became failed states is an indictment of Communism.

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It occurred to me, in thinking about this question, that the film was a modern version of "Easy Rider".

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I always thought of it, especially the book, as a re-imagining and updated version of Sir Thomas More's "Utopia." The plot isn't exactly the same, the characters are different, but the theme is very much in the same vein.

"Few people understand the psychology of dealing with a highway traffic cop."

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No.

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