MovieChat Forums > The Karate Kid Part III (1989) Discussion > Season 5 Proves Daniel was the instigato...

Season 5 Proves Daniel was the instigator all along. (Massive Spoilers!)


Terry Silver was content to grow his dojo and leave Daniel alone. You see, Cobra Kai is a business endeavor not to be in direct competition with Miyagi-Do, which is more like a hobby dojo. Had Daniel just went back to running his dealership, which does not compete with Terry, then he would have been left alone. But no, he had to go instigate a fight with Mike Barnes, jumping to conclusions as always, when Mike was a good family man minding his own business. He didn't even bother Daniel after his failed business deal with Cobra Kai. He probably knew Daniel would never forgive him anyway and would start a fight. Because Daniel can't leave well enough alone, as Johnny soon learned, he destroys the lives of those around him. Imagine the blood, sweat, and tears, Barnes' father-in-law put into building that furniture store.
Terry kept urging Daniel and his goons, just to leave him alone, but Daniel had to keep pushing it and people got hurt. Terry even did Daniel a favor by putting Kreese behind bars. Kreese was the one who really hated Daniel. Terry was always rather indifferent about Daniel.

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Is Daniel an idiot? Yes.

Was he wrong about Cobra Kai? No.

Johnny naively believed he could present a new Cobra Kai without all the old bad elements. He won the All Valley and who raises their ugly head? Kreese, who goes on to take Cobra Kai from Johnny and go down the old path. That in turn brought back Silver because Kreese couldn't manage against Daniel and Johnny alone.

Oh and Mr whiter than white Terry Silver, did you watch all of season 5 yet? And let us not forget what he did to the man who saved his life countless times. Framed him for assault, had him imprisoned and took Cobra Kai from him.

Imagine the blood, sweat, and tears, Barnes' father-in-law put into building that furniture store.

Only for your Silver to burn it down simply because he talked to Daniel. I mean it's not as if the information Barnes gave him went anywhere is it?

And since we are talking about who is the instigator, who instigated the events in KK3? Silver, that's who. Daniel had decided to retire from competition and get on with his life, but Silver instigated everything to the contrary including bringing Barnes in to terrorise a teenager for simply winning a tournament.

Yes, Daniel is beyond stupid, but what's Silvers excuse?

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When Silver was introduced in season 4, he apologized to Daniel and had no desire to continue their feud. At the start of this season, Silver made it clear he had no further desire to reignite their past feud, however Daniel kept getting involved in Silvers business till it escalated to where it did

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Silver was playing him. Just like he played him in KK3. He is always 2 steps ahead of the opposition.

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Maybe I guess. But that poster called cruiser109 seems very astute and may be on to something when he says Jessica is a mole for Silver. Maybe she was all these years?

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But that poster called cruiser109 seems very astute

Hahahahahaa!

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Think about it. If he is right about Jessica being a mole for Silver, that may be the biggest plot twist in cinema history that he predicted

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And would have been revealed if true, certainly at the time of KK3.
No. That's just cruisin109 fishing for a result that isn't there. Even the actress says that was never the intention or even implied.

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Its very possible the writers when making KKK3, didn't think of it until they read the comments of that wise poster, cruisin109 on here. They may write it in for season 6. Jessica may be moving to the valley taking over Silvers operations till he gets out of jail

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If the writers didn't think of it when writing KK3 then it was never a thing.

End of story.

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Sometimes they create new ideas as they go along. Thats what Disney Star Wars did

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Lots of writing goes into the background of characters which doesn't make it into the movie due to time restraints. Another plot twist could be that Silver is Amanda's brother or a cousin of Silver. The conversation could go down like this, "Daniel, I knew, that if you knew I was related to Terry Silver, you would jump to conclusions and leave. Although we are related, we are not the same person." Naturally Daniel would flip out and absolutely not be understanding.

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Lots of writing goes into the background of characters which doesn't make it into the movie due to time restraints.

Yes, and Robin Lively who played Jessica Andrews has stated that it was never the intention for her to be working for Kreese at any point in the script or Silver in the reworked script.

Another plot twist could be that Silver is Amanda's brother or a cousin of Silver. The conversation could go down like this, "Daniel, I knew, that if you knew I was related to Terry Silver, you would jump to conclusions and leave. Although we are related, we are not the same person." Naturally Daniel would flip out and absolutely not be understanding.

No, it really couldn't. Again, this would have been revealed when Silver was at his peak in this season or Amanda would have at least gone to Silver and either asked him to back off or told him she would talk Daniel around.

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That can be resolved with "Terry and I stopped talking after he left for Vietnam. I never forgave him for leaving us when we needed him around. When mom and dad were hurt, he was the one who came over and took care of things around the house."

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That can be resolved with "Terry and I stopped talking after he left for Vietnam. I never forgave him for leaving us when we needed him around. When mom and dad were hurt, he was the one who came over and took care of things around the house."

It still would have been revealed if not by Amanda then by Terry. He would have used it as the ultimate mind fuck on Daniel.

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How do you know what the writers were “thinking”. The evidence is in the film itself.

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How do you know what the writers were “thinking”.

How do you? See how that works?

The evidence is in the film itself.

No it isn't.

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Silver was not playing him. Silver was happy with his new life. He had wonderful friends and a life partner. He thought Kreese was nuts about Daniel and wanted to see for himself. Surely Daniel, wasn't what Kreese made him out to be, and Silver was going to be ready to shove that in Kreese' face. So, Silver did, what Barnes only considered, make a genuine apology to Daniel. We all know how that turned out. Having learned zero life lessons from Miyagi about forgiveness and redemption, he insulted the man in front of others. Daniel, even if skeptical, could have offered Silver one of the Coors Banquets that was most likely on the premises and buried the hatchet over some cool, crisp Rocky Mountain beer. When did we ever see Miyagi act the way Daniel acted in this moment? Never. Possibly when he said to the village that he would marry Yukie despite Sato's objections, but I digress.

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Silver was not playing him. Silver was happy with his new life. He had wonderful friends and a life partner. He thought Kreese was nuts about Daniel and wanted to see for himself.

He (Silver) actually says to Kreese that he spent that time in 85' torturing and tormenting a kid for winning a local competition. Or did you miss that. Silver only came back to Kreese after indulging in the old 'charlie' again.

Again you start by excusing Silver and blaming Daniel. Silvers apology was bullshit. You know it, I know it and the rest of the viewing audience know it. Silvers behaviour was cold and calculated and he knew exactly which buttons to push. And as previously stated, he assaulted Stingray (putting him in hospital) and framed Kreese, the man who saved his life countless times and put him in prison. Daniel was simply an idiot.
Stop acting like Silvers the good guy here. The only person who is truly the good guy in all of this is Johnny Lawrence.

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Daniel didn’t want to retire though. He wanted to defend his title…. But the only reason why he wanted to defend his title he was not for honor but because was gonna get a free ride to the final (probably bribed Pat Johnson with some of his college fund to get that rule). Daniel was dancing around the crapshack like the belle of the ball celebrating the free ride he was gonna get. Silver knew that a champion should defend his title for honor so he trained him.

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Silver knew that a champion should defend his title for honor so he trained him.

Silver trained him because he wanted to torture him.

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Oh please. Daniel was a hot head. All Silver did was wind him up and get out of the way. If Daniel was honest he knows he liked it… he was powerful and free under Silver. There was always a little cobra Kai in him.

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Oh please, stop. You are doing yourself no favours.

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It’s considered bad etiquette to try to poach students. You had your chance with Vanilla Lime Coke… he’s with us now. You should respect that.

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If a student comes to me for instruction, how is that ME poaching them? The same as Terry Silver didn't poach Daniel. Daniel went to him.

You had your chance with Vanilla Lime Coke… he’s with us now.

Vanilla Lime Coke (whoever that may be) is free to do whatever they want. I do respect that.

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Amen! Terry Silver is a renowned hero to us all

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Even after what he did to your original hero Kreese?

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Stingray put Kreese behind bars. Stingray could have said, "screw you! I'll never betray sensei!" and then get up and defeat Silver in an honorable fashion. Silver was drunk as a skunk, he would have been easy pickings for the Stingray.

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No. Silver manipulated Stingray to accuse Kreese of what he (Silver ) did. Stingray was weak, but Kreese had said he wasn't welcome at Cobra Kai. Silver (after beating him up) gave him an option.

Now you are ignoring the facts.

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Stingray is not weak, he has defeated everyone he has faced, except Terry Silver.

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Not physically weak, mentally.

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If Stingray entered your dojo would you allow him to join?

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Yes. I would train anyone who was willing....even you!

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But stingray was a buffoon… a joker!

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Yet Silver accepted him and honoured him. Furthermore, if a person is willing to try then I'm willing to help....even YOU!

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If I joined your class I’d outrank you since I’m a 9th Dan…. the handiman fixing the toilet said so and budda provided the belt so it must be true right?

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If I joined your class I’d outrank you since I’m a 9th Dan

no you aren't.

the handiman fixing the toilet said so and budda provided the belt so it must be true right?

If that was even remotely true you still wouldn't outrank me in my dojo and my style. If you had half a clue you would know all this, but instead you fish with half assed comments hoping to score a point and failing pathetically.

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But if a handiman cleaning the toilet claimed that I was a 9th Dan and stole a belt for me you WOULD consider me a 9th Dan right?

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No I wouldn't. And if Daniel went along to Silvers class (which he does) Silver would have every right to say you are not a blackbelt in my style and I don't recognise your style. But he couldn't insist on Daniel not wearing his blackbelt outside of a Cobra Kai dojo.
This is what I have been saying all along. If Miyagi decided Daniel is a blackbelt in Miyagi do then no one outside of Miyagi do can decide otherwise. The All Valley could have said they had never heard of the style and refused to accept the credentials, but they chose to accept it. That's on them. Silver obviously had no issue either and that's on him. You or I having an issue doesn't count I'm afraid.

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So karate dojo’s have standards as to who’s a black belt and who isn’t but tournaments do not? Why even have a black belt requirement then? Anyone who shows up for the tourney capos just say “yeah we’re black belts whatever’

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Yes, but I've already told you this. When a tournament has an open invite and all styles competition the onus is on the organisers to accept a persons credentials or refuse entry.

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Shouold the tournament have accepted Daniels credentisls?

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The thing is they never questioned them and that was typical of a lot of open competitions in the 80's.

I don't recall anyone ever being refused entry and even when asked to provide proof of licence and grading record one person said he'd forgotten it so the decision was left to the competition organiser who allowed entry.

To answer your question though, no they shouldn't have accepted it at face value. This was an unknown dojo with an unknown teacher. All the others seemed to be part of a group who paid subs to whomever ran things. So in fact were known established Karate groups with checkable history.

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So did YOU consider Daniel an actual black belt just because Miyagi said he was?

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In my club? No. But I don't get to decide the standard of Miyagi-do.

There are blackbelts in other clubs where I live and I wouldn't accept them as blackbelts in my club. It's about standards and different clubs have different standards. i was invited to sit on a grading panel once for another club and I couldn't believe the poor standard of some of the students. One little fat kid was crying and it turned out he was hungry so they let him have a break so he could have a sandwich and a drink ffs! He kept forgetting things too.
Guess what? The chief instructor passed this kid. I asked him why in private and he just said that he had reached the standard HE required of the kid to be a blackbelt. Being his club I had no say in this but declined future invites to sit on his grading panels.

Like I have said for years, nobody outside of Miyagi-do gets to decide whether or not Daniel is a blackbelt in Miyagi-do. But they can refuse to accept that standard outside and refuse them entry in to tournaments like the All Valley if they choose to do so.

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So someone allowed a cat kid to be a black belt because he started crying and needed food? That instructor should have had to account for his decision before a panel.

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Couldn't you sleep thinking about this seeing as you posted at 3am your time?

That instructor should have had to account for his decision before a panel.

I agree, but he was the chief instructor of his organisation so answerable to no one.

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Sounds to me like the chief instructor was paid off.

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Probably not, just has low standards.

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How could he possibly get to his position having such low standards? More likely he was accepting bribe money.

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He started his own club and quickly grew in to the biggest group in the area. People were not only flocking to his club but the retention rate was like no other. The main reasons were nobody ever failed a grading and people quickly rose through the ranks. After about 8 years he held a competition where he invited my club and another club. There was 12 events with 3 trophies (1st, 2nd and 3rd) available for each event, so a total of 36 trophies. My club won 10 first place, 6 second place and 6 third place. The other club won all but 2 of the other trophies which left 2 third place trophies for his club. To me this showed the low standard of his students. One year one of my purple belts beat all his black and brown belts to take first place.

My opinion is he got to his position then dropped his standards because he wanted a big group and forgot what Karate was all about. Don't think it was bribery, more likely he put these people forward for gradings so wasn't going to look foolish by failing them himself.

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Wow. Why don’t you call him out on this Wears? He’s destroying karate by promoting a bunch of useless buffoons. And don’t tell me he wouldn’t pass someone if he was slipped a Benjamin (that’s $100 to you English). If you respect the sport, you should immediately challenge him to a public fight to the death. If you win you could then demote all his students to white belts. I’ll help you get them back on track quickly, because over the years I’ve developed intensive short term training for situations just like this…. It comes in 2 parts and has 3 rules.

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Because that's not how real life works.
Besides, he can only influence his own group Karate wise. When students from other groups see his group in action in competitions they totally see how not to do Karate.

Funnily enough his group haven't entered competitions for about 6 years now.

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You could always just show up at his house and assault him. NRC123 and I might even temporarily join forces with you to do so.

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You could always just show up at his house and assault him.

Why? He is orchestrating his own downfall.

NRC123 and I might even temporarily join forces with you to do so.

Nearly spat my coffee out.

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Don’t you English drink tea?

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Not everyone in England does. Personally I can't stand the taste.

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If King Charles asked you over to Buckingham palace for high tea would you accept? Or would you ask for Starbucks like a boorish settler from the colonies?

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I would accept but not ask for Starbucks as I don't like their coffee.

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Did you finally take Silvers advice to Wake up and smell the coffee?

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Been drinking coffee long before Silver was even a thing.

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But proper Englishmen drink tea…

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Do they now? Or is it just the most popular drink?

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If the King invited you over for tea to have a serious discussion about you guarding the crown jewels you would spit out the tea (ruining the kings shirt) and say “Blimey! Don’t you know I hate tea govnuh!” You better get me some of that brown Bean Water from the colonies or else I’ll give you a karate chop right now!”

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Stereotypical nonsense from a plagiarising idiot who despite getting 50 kicks up the arse in public, continues down this flaccid route.

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Nobody gave me 50 kicks . That’s just you fantasizing again like you’re on the TV show fantasy island.

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Funny you of all people would mention Fantasy Island, Tattoo!

You were publicly shown up for plagiarism. Deal with it.

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No YOURE Tattoo man! You know you’re really sick man! Don’t!

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Shut up wanker

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You seriously think you could help someone like Stingray? Terry Silver could.. he even managed to help Daniel become less of a wimp through quicksilver training. But what would YOU do to help stinkray?

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You seriously think you could help someone like Stingray?

You know nothing about me so your opinion counts for nothing.

I've trained people for years and turned some in to national champions, so yes I could help Stingray.

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What would you DO to turn a wimp into a winner then?

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Come along and find out ;-)

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How do you know I haven’t already infiltrated your class?

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Because a wimp like you would stand out like a sore thumb.

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Hey, that poster cruisin109 sounds like hes a real bad ass in karate. Be careful

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Hey, that poster cruisin109 sounds like hes a real bad ass in karate. Be careful

Fuck off millsey!

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Leave millsey alone punk!

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Or what? You will insult me on here?

Fuck off cruisin109 and take millsey with you.

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WA: Who are you his mother? Cruisin109: Maybe.

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So you are woman then?

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If I ever see you on the same street as millsey I won’t be so generous with your health you understand? (Kicks WA in his arse on his way out)

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Blah, blah, blah.

The one getting a kick up the arse will be you for your wanton plagiarism.

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Millsey was hoping I would have killed you. I told him karate is for defense.

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Was he? Can't imagine he was. Must be just you with your plagiarising again.

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It appears wearsalan can't handle the fact that your predictions of Cobra Kai are coming more and more to fruition, so he is acting like a sore loser

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wearsalan doesn't have to handle them seeing as they aren't coming to fruition.

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Referring to yourself in the third person now? You sink lower and lower everyday.

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Says the person with the split personality.

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Except that Jessica has been secretly with Silver all this time. All the evidence suggests this. Plus both Chris822cats and cruisin109 gave astute reasons for this. A huge credit to both of those gentlemen

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Except that Jessica has been secretly with Silver all this time. All the evidence suggests this.

None of the evidence suggests this. Quite the contrary actually.

Plus both Chris822cats and cruisin109 gave astute reasons for this.

No, they give piss poor conjecture. Nothing more, nothing less. Only idiots like you go for this.

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Maybe you should give KK 3 and season 5 a re watch

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Maybe you should. But this time take off the blinkers.

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Wow. You totally missed the point of the show and Daniel’s motivations. He’s trying to stop Silver for the same reason he — and Johnny — fought to stop Kreese: To prevent them from turning kids into hardened, aggressive bullies who’ll stop at nothing, including hurting people, to get what they want. Silver’s more of a sociopath than Kreese was and he needs to be stopped.

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The Cobra Kai kids were only projecting strength when the Miyagi-do kids instigated confrontation. Notice, the Cobra Kai never walked around bullying random kids. When did Johnny, Miguel, Hawk, Bobby, or even Dutch walk around terrorizing innocent kids? Never. However, if someone tried to cause trouble with them, they did not turn the other cheek.

Johnny (as sensei), Kreese, and Silver all implored Daniel to leave them alone, but he kept sticking his head in the lion's den. Only after multiple offenses did they say, enough is enough.

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The rest of the Kai socialized freely with Freddy and his lower ranking friends during the beach party in KKI. The Kai weren’t the elitist snobs some accuse them of being, they just hated Daniel.

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The Kai weren’t the elitist snobs some accuse them of being, they just hated Daniel.

'Some' ?
Who ever accused them of being elitist snobs? It's not an accusation I've ever seen on the boards. The Kai were the jocks. The 'in' crowd. The popular gang. If you weren't in the gang then you wanted to be. I think you are just making stuff up again.

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Daniel disrupted the harmony that existed between the cliques, creating division wherever he went. He was a toxic character.

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Which isn't what was asked of you. I'll ask again in big letters in case lower case is too small for your eyes.

WHO ACCUSED THE KAI OF BEING ELITIST SNOBS?

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You have nothing good to say about the Kai. You believe they were a bad group. They were a good group just had to deal with Danny Boy.

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No, you believe that I believe that.

They were a good group just had to deal with Danny Boy.

Well Danny boy dealt with them all in the end.

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Took me a while but found it.



[–] wears-alan 6 years ago
Blimey, why are those elitist snobs so mean to Daniel. Those lot remind me of the tossers from me old comprehensive.

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Another blatant lie from NRC123.

No one from around where I live talks like that. Typical stereotype of someone from England. We're not all from the south you know?

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NRC123 provided the quote! It’s all there black and white clear as Crystal! You said Blimey! You posted that shit on the board which now needs to be washed and sterilized so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!

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Blimey is a word I would never use. Proof that he made this up.

I would never refer to the Kai as elitist snobs. But hey, I'm wasting my time telling someone that wants to believe with all their soul that it is true, so crack on.

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Blimey is a word I would never use. Proof that he made this up. What is a word you would never use? After you started your sentence with Blimey you forgot to type the word you would never use. What is the word?

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What difference does it make. Oh, so you can edit it and use a word that I would use.

Fuck off dickhead.

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We both know you called me a “blimey bastard!” once. If you practiced honestly compassion and FairPlay you wouldn’t have said that.

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That doesn't even make sense, and we both know I didn't.

If you practiced honestly compassion and FairPlay you wouldn’t have said that.

And if you did, you wouldn't be acting the way you do.

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No one from around where I live talks like that.


What a bunch of bullocks!

You’re ashamed of your working class background and want to conceal it from your posh friends SamGerard and Paladin. If they can’t accept you for who you are, they’re not real friends.

I proved you wrong and your grasping at straws to discredit my evidence. I took an oath of honesty, compassion and fair play and I don’t break it for anybody.

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What a bunch of bullocks!

You’re ashamed of your working class background and want to hide the fact that you used to speak like that from your posh friends SamGerard and Paladin. If they can’t accept you for who you are then they’re not your real friends.

I am working class but that sort of talk comes from the south of England and I'm not from there.

I proved you wrong and your grasping at straws to discredit my evidence. I took an oath of honesty, compassion and fair play and I don’t break it for anybody.

You have only proved what a liar you are by making stuff up and failing to back up your shit.

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I am working class but that sort of talk comes from the south of England and I'm not from there.


I’m not a dialect expert. I just pulled the quote from the records. Why you would culturally appropriate southern working class slang is anyone’s guess.

You have only proved what a liar you are by making stuff up and failing to back up your shit.


I’m not the one making alt accounts to support my own posts.

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I’m not a dialect expert.

Yes I know.

I just pulled the quote from the records.

No, you didn't.

Why you would culturally appropriate southern working class slang is anyone’s guess.

I wouldn't and didn't. You are lying as usual.

I’m not the one making alt accounts to support my own posts.

Now you are confusing me with you cruisin109.

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You slandered the Kai by inaccurately describing them as elitist snobs. Your class envy is behind your hatred of the dojo. It’s never been about ethics or fighting styles, your just jealous about Silver’s wealth and social standing.

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You slandered the Kai by inaccurately describing them as elitist snobs.

Nope. You made that up.

Your class envy is behind your hatred of the dojo.

Nope. You made that up.

It’s never been about ethics or fighting styles, your just jealous about Silver’s wealth and social standing.

Nope. You made that up.

It must stink in your place with all the shit spouting from your mouth.

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Not as bad as the streets of Darlington.

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Except the streets of Darlington don't stink. You would know that if you'd actually been instead of pretending to do so.

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You’ve become accustomed to the smell and don’t notice it anymore.

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Must be the same for you and your breath then eh? There's a reason people are avoiding you, you know....shit breath.

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Whinieille brings chaos and disaster into whomever's life he butts uninvited into.

Look at poor Barnes.

Just living his life. making his way in the world ...

Then an hour with our "hero" and ... POOF!

Gone.

Man, I STILL hate that kid!

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It makes one wonder if Daniel married Amanda so he could have access to the family's macaroni and cheese secret recipe.

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I’ll never stop hating that Flaccid boy hero

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