Did John know?
Because of John's situation being left behind on the Orpheus, there was talk that perhaps he knew and in some ways wncouragwd the idea of his wife seducing Hughie. What do you think?
shareI think it was on the back of his mind the moment he realized the Orpheus stopped running and the power went out, cutting his communication with Rae. It was at this point he knew that he would be unable to catch up to Rae and rescue her and instead had to be the one to be rescued by his wife. In essence, he became the beta male. Helpless and alone on a sinking ship, there is no doubt thoughts of his wife being with her captor entered his mind, maybe even engaging in a sexual relationship with him. Under the circumstances that he was in, it is in my opinion that he would have encouraged his wife to do what she had to do in order to rescue and bring him back aboard the Saracean. Now the question is, would he feel the same way if he discovered that it resulted in his wife becoming pregnant with another man's child? a child that would carry Hughie's lineage instead of John's? How would he react to such an outcome?
shareHow indeed. Would John even have the courage to ask Rae directly if she was intimate with Hughie, or would he leave it to his own imagination? I suspect he would have his suspicions, but then again I also feel Rae doesn't have the heart to tell him because it would indirectly pass blame onto John for failing as a husband to look out for his wife when he left her behind, and then failed again to come to her rescue on the Orpheus.
shareI believe John would not have the courage to ask his wife if she cheated on him. As mentioned above, it's very possible he might know that Rae went above and beyond in her efforts to rescue him, even if it meant losing his chance at fathering another child. As you mentioned, he failed Rae not only as a husband but also as a man. Due to his age and declining stamina, it's very doubtful that John would be able to impregnate Rae once more after already doing so with his first son who was killed. The son that Rae is carrying in her womb will be carrying the traits and features of both Rae and Hughie, so it will Hughie's lineage that will survive. John's lineage died with Danny's death. This is something the director of the film wanted to convey, Hughie evolving into an alpha and John devolving into a beta male whose poor judgement made him lose his woman to another man and almost losing his own life aboard the Orpheus as it sank.
And let's face it, this whole thing was his fault. The sailing trip was his idea, him denying Rae her medication to help her cope with their son's death, and foolishly leaving his wife alone with a perfect stranger aboard their ship as he went alone to investigate the Orpheus. Do you agree?
I'm not convinced John would confront Rae about his suspicions. In his mind he would rather be a cuckold to Rae than to not have her as a wife. And because these events transpired because of John's actions and decisions he has no one to fault but himself if Rae ends up impregnated from Hughie. So he would silently concede in passing on his lineage and accept Hughie's intervention by raising Hughie's child as his own. After all, the child is also Rae's who he loves, respects and owes his life to.
shareThere's a reason older men can have babies with younger women. Because a man retains most of his sperm from the time of birth to the time of death. Women on the other hand have only so many eggs as each year they die or are sloughed off as a period each month. On average a woman goes into menopause around age 47. I did at 53. It's a woman who cannot have children ad infinitum. Larry King became a father at 60 and had two children with his wife. Michael Douglas had two children with his wife Catherine Zeta Jones in his late 50s. Even if John was in his forties he could continue having children up until his death. John was a good swimmer and was a former Navy man. Hardly lacking stamina. He survived the Orpheus sinking and was able to survive until Rae could find him and rescue him. Please go back and watch the film.
shareThe film fully implies John to be a beta male and a cuckold despite him being a naval officer. I fully agree with you that he would have consented his wife bearing the child of another man rather than lose her and also due to the fact that because of his careless decisions he owes Rad his life because she had to go out of her way to rescue him. So even if he found out that Hughie impregnated his wife he would have to accept it due to his fault in abandoning Rae and leaving her alone with a younger stronger suitor who was more virile and more capable of fulfilling her needs and desires.
shareCheat? Rae was raped by Hughie. Hughie raped her. Full stop. That was not cheating. Rae did what she had to do to get back to her husband. But "cheating"?
shareIt's possible John could still father children, but Hughie presented himself as a younger, more virile candidate who matched closely to Rae in terms of age and physique. Even John realized he couldn't overpower him which is why he used the flare gun against him rather than engage in a brawl. Since the point of the trip was for Rae to cope and start again with John, and Hughie was the only one to have unprotected sex with her onboard the yacht in the movie, the film implies heavily that Hughie impregnated her.
Also, there's a controversy over whether it was considered a rape or not. Rae was engaging in sex with Hughie and gave her consent by mouthing "do it" before he entered her. She originally was seducing him in a plan to go for the shotgun and subdue him in a vulnerable state, but her dog intervened causing her to withdraw from the plan and resume her role as Hughie's lover until another opportunity presented itself. She never protested sex and lead Hughie into believing she was infatuated and that it was consensual.
Fuck Hughie's physique. He attacked Rae on her own boat and set John adrift. HUGHIE RAPED RAE full frigging stop. What other choice did Rae have? He was going to do it anyway. You did watch the film didn't you? She did what she had to do to get back to her HUSBAND WHO SHE LOVED. Please quit with your stupidity. Doesn't matter if she told him to "do it". She had no choice. Doesn't matter what she was doing in order to get back to her husband, the point here is it was rape. She didn't consent to have sex with him because he would have taken it upon himself anyway. Rae had no choice. I see complicated things confuse you. She was trying to appease his insanity. She was a hostage to him. She had to do what she had to do to save John. She wasn't "assuming any role as Hughie's lover" because she LOVED HER HUSBAND JOHN WHO SHE WAS TRYING TO GET BACK TO. It was not consensual. No forced intimacy is consensual. It was rape. If you in effect set my husband adrift on a raft and I have to pretend to fall in love with you in order to save my husband, it's rape. I'm not in love with you, I'm doing whatever I have to do to save myself and save my husband. Get it?
share"Fuck Hughie's physique."
That is what Rae had in mind, yes.
"What other choice did Rae have? He was going to do it anyway."
Hughie had plenty of opportunities if he wanted to but never acted upon them. When Rae was unconscious he left her alone. When Rae angered Hughie he got mad but still allowed Rae to go to her bedroom and even wander around the ship afterwards. It was only until Rae showed interest and seduced him that Hughie went along with sex.
"She did what she had to do to get back to her HUSBAND WHO SHE LOVED"
She did love her husband, but there was still a cold distance between the two after the death of their son. The yacht trip was also meant to rekindle their romance, but John decided to reach out to the yacht and leave his wife alone with Hughie while he investigated the schooner. Rae was assured John would come to her rescue but soon made it clear he would be unable to fulfill that obligation leaving Rae vulnerable and alone. She still wanted to save John's life, but mentally and emotionally she was unhinged and prone to doing things she wouldn't normally do like becoming unfaithful.
"Doesn't matter if she told him to "do it"."
It does cause that implies consent. Hughie is given permission and encouragement to bed Rae from Rae herself. She could have denied him, but chose not to.
"She was trying to appease his insanity."
By choosing to act as his lover? She could have remained on friendly terms and still had opportunities to subdue him that didn't revolve around sex. But her mind was also fractured from her traumatic past.
"She wasn't "assuming any role as Hughie's lover""
That is exactly what she's doing. You even acknowledge it to a degree by saying she wants to appease him. Unless you're implying her kisses were natural and in no way an act where in some instances that might have been the case because of physical stimuli.
"No forced intimacy is consensual."
Hughie never forced himself on Rae during the event. Rae lifted her arms for Hughie to remove her shirt (careful not to catch her hair), tore her shorts to which Rae moaned and moved in to kiss him, allowed Rae to get up and seemingly use the bathroom and then took her to bed when she came down with cigarettes telling him they were for later. There's no threats or violence in this scene.
"If you in effect set my husband adrift on a raft and I have to pretend to fall in love with you in order to save my husband, it's rape."
Rae didn't have to pretend though. She made the decision. And based on posts and polls relating to this matter a lot of women and men confessed to being attracted by Hughie in this movie over John. The scene itself is also filmed and framed to be erotic for a thriller.
Let's hope you're never raped. Hughie was a psychopath. Sorry but I'm more attracted to John since guess what, he was her husband. The scene is not filmed as erotic. You can clearly see Rae does not want to do it but is FORCED into it in order to subdue Hughie and guess what GO BACK TO GET HER HUSBAND THE MAN SHE LOVES. And what polls are you jabbing about?
This review from The Guardian:
But it’s Nicole Kidman as John’s wife Rae who steals the show. Forced to endure the brunt of Hughie’s attacks, Rae is both cool and desperate, calculating and vulnerable, with a strange energy that feels young and tender but wise beyond her years (Kidman was just 22 when the film was released in 1989).
Did you note the line FORCED TO ENDURE THE BRUNT OF HUGHIE'S ATTACKS. Force equals rape.
Rae was buying time in order to try to subdue Hughie and get back to John. The husband she loved. She was pretending to want him, even trying forestall the inevitable and the only reason she relented (note the word RELENTED) is because she had no choice. She had no other choices left. And again you do not understand the meaning of being marooned on that boat with a madman. His psychopathy both in the murder of those people aboard the Orpheus as well as his many attacks on Rae is inherently violent. Hughie was a psychopath. You do understand what a psychopath is?
Definition: Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits. It is sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy.
Hughie was antisocial. He claimed the crew of the Orpheus ate some mushrooms and went insane. It was clear Hughie murdered those people. He's no different than a Ted Bundy or a Jeffrey Dahmer. Clearly you do not understand Rae's desperation because you're not a woman. I am. I've been raped. What happened to Rae was rape. His constant refusal to listen to her when she wanted to go back for her husband, and her joy at finding her husband showed she wanted her husband, not the psychopath who raped her. It was not sex, it was rape. Clearly you don't know the difference.
The whole point of the cruise was to get them both stronger after the death of son, something Rae blamed herself for. The fact they encountered Hughie didn't mean Rae suddenly wanted to jettison her husband and find another "breeder". That is plainly disgusting on its face. If a woman finds a strange man standing in her bedroom who then tells her all he wants is sex then he'll go, then proceeds to have sex with her on her own bed, is that not rape? She really didn't consent to be raped and neither did Rae. She did what she had to do to appease, not entice, or seduce. It's appeasement not sex. There was no desire on her behalf to find a better breeder. There was only the desire to get it over with so she could go back and find her husband...the man she married and the man she loved. Calling it "cheating" is disgraceful and sick. It was survival, no different than what a woman will do if she finds that stranger in her bedroom. Hughie was a stranger, not a possible lover. You need to seriously get a grip and understand that.
You do remember John was a Navy man, trained to kill in times of war. The reason John used the flare gun is it was readily at hand as he saw his wife being attacked by a madman.
Finally actress Kelly McGillis found herself in a position where there were two men in her basement apartment in New York. She had to appease them in order to survive. Are you going to say she asked for sex?
Rae was not raped by Hughie. This was full consensual intercourse between two willing participants. She was in survival mode but so was he, and in times of survival one must pass along one's seed in order for the lineage to survive. There's no doubt Rae was sexually attracted to Hughie and vice versa.
Didn't you notice the heavy pants and moans while Hughie groped her breast after they kissed and when he tore off her short? she was clearly aroused and excited being kissed and stripped nude by a younger and handsome suitor who was physically stronger and more sexually virile than John. So much so that she kissed down his chest before getting up and putting on her robe, that was done as a result of passion.
Hughie never forced himself on Rae, letting her roam freely about the yacht and even made an attempt to befriend her when tensions between them escalated. He complimented her beauty and was there to console her in her time of need.
She willfully lead him to her and John's bed where she once again got nude and performed oral sex on Hughie. Granted, we the audience don't get to witness it but it was implied she went down on him. Didn't you see Rae roll her eyes back with Hughie standing fully nude in front of her? She was being carried away by lust and passion and desired to have him deep inside her. She allowed him to move on top of her and allowed him to suckle her breasts while wrapping her arms around his neck. When the moment came for Hughie to penetrate her, she mouthed the words "Do it" giving him her full consent for him to fully enter her. This was not rape by any means.
Keep in mind the events that lead to the voyage in the first place. She lost her only child in an accident and her marriage to John was strained. Hughie came in and was able to separate her from John who is a beta male and was able to fulfill her carnal desires by satisfying her sexually and providing his seed to impregnate her with a new child which she willfully accepted.
So instead of relying on memory since I hadn't seen the film for a couple of years. I decided to go dig out my copy and rewatch. Here's how it went from a fresh viewing since you seem to think it was all "erotic" and "consenting" an all.
Rae has just gotten off the radio from John aboard the Orpheus who tells Rae she's going down. He'll drown soon. She is crying at the thought of losing her beloved husband. She is very vulnerable when Hughie comes in and sees her crying. He "attempts" to comfort her, yet there is a sinister element to his approach. He begins kissing her and she clearly does not want it. When her head is toward the camera you can see the amount of contempt she has for Hughie. Note: Not love or amour. He then takes her hand to go down on the cabin floor where he tears off her top and shorts. They are naked, however, she makes the excuse she needs to go up on deck where she finds and begins to ready the harpoon gun. Someone who is in "love" or wanting sex with the person there does NOT ready a harpoon gun when they're about to "make love". Ben begins barking alerting Hughie and he gets up and is about to come up on deck, but Rae stops him by claiming she went up to get the cigarettes. Hughie NOT RAE leads the two to the cabin bed and he lays down on her. He then begins intercourse. During the entire scene she is not in exstacy. She is clearly hating every single moment of his intrusion. Ergo, she is wincing every time he thrusts into her. She also is not as you claimed "rolling her eyes back". Her expression was always that of pain and definitely revulsion. She is not wanting this intrusion, she is not in love with him in any way. She does not give into him.
Now you keep stating crap about the "alpha" being Hughie and the "beta" being John. You seem to forget John is a Navy man. Clearly an Alpha in all aspects. Hughie, however, couldn't take the cuckolding from Russell, the guy who chartered the Orpheus. In the video John views you can see and hear him chiding Hughie's attempt at making "art" when clearly the charter was to make a porno. Russell and John are the alphas in this piece. Hughie had to force himself on Rae and likely forced himself on the other women in the charter. Those women likely rebuffed his advances which is the reason Hughie went all primative on those on the Orpheus and the reason when John wanted to go aboard, Hughie didn't want him to. Why wouldn't he have allowed John to go aboard if it was as Hughie stated? Clearly it wasn't. Hughie is a psychopath and a rapist.
That you see "amour" clearly shows your mental issues. I could if you like screencap the entire scene for you to debunk pretty much all the crap you've said here. Because face it, you're wrong. You are like Hughie, clearly delusional and seeing what you want to see when the truth is Rae doesn't want him. She wants her husband. There is also no evidence showing Rae and John are close to separating. All of this crap you stated about the "seed" has nothing whatsoever to do with this scene. Same thing with the nine minute rape scene in "Irreversable" with Monica Bellucci. Same thing with the Millennium Trilogy where Lisbet is clearly raped by Buhrman. Unless you actually understand what is being depicted in a movie, please don't ever comment on a message board. And certainly don't try to comment on what a woman is feeling or experiencing since clearly you're wrong. And at no point does Rae tell him to do it. Never!
You don't have to worry about screencapping. If the site allows it I can do so to show my point. But looking at your analysis I have some issue.
"He "attempts" to comfort her, yet there is a sinister element to his approach."
There is no sinister approach. He soothes her and gently kisses her hands with a concerned expression.
"When her head is toward the camera you can see the amount of contempt she has for Hughie."
At this point I would agree there is a flare to her that shows initial anger. But her faces also starts to formulate a plan to seduce him. I noticed you skip over Rae kissing him before he takes her hand making it seem like he initiated it. Rae and Hughie move in for a long kiss, and we see Rae wrap her hands around Hughie. Rae then watches as Hughie cups a feel and Rae doesn't protest giving Hughie the encouragement to take things further. She doesn't pull away when he takes her hand.
"He then takes her hand to go down on the cabin floor where he tears off her top and shorts."
He doesn't tear her shirt off. Rae lifts her arms up and Hughie lifts the shirt off her. He does rip her shorts off right after Rae moves in to kiss him and once he displays his masculine strength Rae makes a moan of surprise arousal before wrapping her arms around him.
"They are naked, however, she makes the excuse she needs to go up on deck where she finds and begins to ready the harpoon gun."
She kisses him down his chest before going to the deck. Which is an act of seduction. And she was assembling the shotgun; not the harpoon gun. You say you just saw this movie, but you are intentionally omitting details and forgetting other major ones.
"Hughie and he gets up and is about to come up on deck, but Rae stops him by claiming she went up to get the cigarettes."
Rae does say they were 'for later' implying after they have sex, and she immediately kisses him soon after, before Hughie could finish his sentence. Another act of seduction. The cigarettes weren't planned, but Rae improvised and used sex to distract Hughie away from the deck.
"Hughie NOT RAE leads the two to the cabin bed and he lays down on her. He then begins intercourse."
You are lying on this one, and if the Terms of Service allow it I can link the scene or screencap it to show Rae lead Hughie to the bedroom. After kissing Hughie she flirtaciously looks down at his penis with a smile and then leads to the bedroom where Hughie follows. The dog walks up to where Rae was assembling the shotgun and then follows them to the bedroom. By that point Rae is naked again, eyes rolled back, flushed and facing Hughie's penis. Hughie leans down to kiss her cheek and strokes her lips like he did after their first kiss and moves slowly on top.
During the sex itself there is a variety of emotions Rae experiences. Awestruck, disbelief, orgasmic, anger, passion, etc. It's a wave because she is not just mad at Hughie but also mad at herself for allowing this to go on as she encouraged it from a plan she failed to follow through with.
"There is also no evidence showing Rae and John are close to separating."
There's enough to implicate their marriage is troubled. Losing their only son being the factor which can strengthen a marriage or break it. Rae is shown to be disobedient to John prior to him leaving for the Orpheus. She tries to take her sedatives/medication which John refuses from her. Their kiss that follows is cold and shorter than the one she has with Hughie. After kissing John she looks away from him and back to her meds.
When John begins having suspicions about Hughie, Rae chalks it up to John not liking him: calling him out on his beta behavior. This is also why she protests John going off on the Orpheus himself and why she didn't losd the gun and keep it with her like John asked her to. Instead she played with her dog and left the gun alone. It was the thought of losing John that made her rise up to the task of saving him, but she had stumbles and mistales along the way. After sex with Hughie she behaves like a whole new person. Less timid and more resourceful.
Now the scene in 'Irreversible' was a rape scene. We see Monica Bellucci protest, we see her threatened by her attacker with a weapon. Very different from what happens in 'Dead Calm'.
And yes, Rae does mouth out "Do it" right before Hughie enters her.
https://australiancinema.info/db/1997/dead.htm
After a failed attempt to get a response on the radio from the other boat, the couples private space is broken by the sight of someone rowing towards them. He is coming from the sinking Orpheus, across the dead flat water. They help this man onboard. He turns out to be Hughie Warriner, an American and in a delirious state. He claims he is the only survivor of a food poisoning epidemic. Apparently the rest of the crew on trying to cross the Pacific, all perished from an extreme outbreak of botulism. As Hughie rests; John leaves Rae alone on the yacht as he suspects the validity of Hughies predicament and goes to investigate the sinking Orpheus himself.
Once onboard he comes across the murdered bodies. He fixes the electrical supply and on doing so; sets off video footage of the dead people, filmed by Hughie. The video depicts the highly-strung personalities of the Americans and the high spirits they were in, leading up to (unbeknown to them) their untimely deaths. Meanwhile Hughie awakens on the Saracen and knocks Rae unconscious. On the Orpheus Johns worst fears have been realised and quickly leaves the ship to go back to his own and save his wife from this psychotic man. He arrives too late and a sly laugh escapes from Hughie as the Saracen pulls away from Johns grasp.
When Rae comes to she finds Hughie refuses to go back for her husband and what then follows is a tension-filled game of cat-and-mouse between Hughie and (the now forced to be) cunning Rae. She attempts to send messages to John by radio, vowing to return for him. Rae must put aside her grief-stricken reflection in order to outsmart her evil captor. Her state alters from one of vulnerability to strong shrewdness as she fights the psychotic Hughie to the end. Her faithful dog causes problems for her in her bids to try and outsmart Hughie and eventually in order to take control; she gives in to Hughies sexual advances.
After, Rae spikes Hughies drink with a sedative and then tries to harpoon him through the cabin door. Hughie though (like most villains), has remarkable survival powers and survives the harpoon.(She had inadvertently killed the dog not him; hence the blood coming out from under the door.) Rae is once again attacked by Hughie before he is wounded and tied up, once the sedative finally kicks in. Back at the sinking Orpheus John is trapped and fighting for his own survival. Rae has turned the Saracen around and is on her way back to him when Hughie returns on deck again. Once again she shoots him out of protection and he is set adrift on a lifeboat. As the night rears on Rae struggles to find any sign of John and clings on to her hope.
share
Is this where you're getting your info from as opposed to the film itself?
I can pull sites that argue whether it's sex/rape. Reviews, analysis, polls, discussions, etc. The film's ambiguity sparks these conversations. Even books that talk about the film/actor also go into it. One such Nicole Kidman book doesn't automatically lean towards rape either.
There is no ambiguity. It was rape. Point is you're still ignoring the HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN.
shareSpamming doesn't change that I already acknowledged it. Read my posts.
shareThat's not spamming. That's inserting it manually into your thick skull.
shareWhich is pointless as I already addressed the harpoon gun. Would help if you spent less time spamming a single word and more time reading.
shareThere you go, took out so many so you won't accuse me of spamming. Using the same word by the way is not spamming.
Definition of spamming: spam
Dictionary result for spam
/spam/
verb
gerund or present participle: spamming
send the same message indiscriminately to (a large number of Internet users).
I only sent the message to you. Big difference. Again you have a lack of comprehension.
This is an open topic the messages don't show up to just me. You'd do well to watch the movie and read my posts instead of this immature display of repeating the same word over and over again like a child.
shareIt also brings the story full circle, after rescuing her husband, Rae and John's marriage is saved and she now has a new child to love and care for within the loving confines of her union to John.
While you may state the contrary, this was not a rape incident but the physical union between two troubled individuals seeking fulfillment.
The marriage never needed saving. It was in crisis, not disintegration. You clearly know nothing of the process of grief. Take a look at John and Reve Walsh who lost their son Adam. John was a matter of fact kind of guy given his being a Navy man. Rae was in full guilt over the fact she couldn't save her son after he unbuckled himself from his carseat. The couple was in grief. You need to understand the process of grief before you understand what is actually going on with John and Rae. There was no "saving" here. And where the hell do you figure Rae is pregnant with Hughie's child? Clearly you are going beyond what the film presented. She was not pregnant.
It was rape. Pure and simple. This was not "sexual fulfillment" since Hughie was not a threat the the marriage. Please get a grip and understand how grief actually works. It was Hughie who was troubled and Rae who was grieving but still in love with her husband. Please get help for this obsession you have with the "union" crap.
Your childish demeanor in insulting our posts clarifying our views on the film shows that it's you who needs the help. Venting and spewing your crap isn't going to change my position regarding Dead Calm.
shareOf course it won't. You'll see seduction and consent. Clearly it's rape and insanity with Hughie. John is the alpha as was Russell. As for my "childish demeanor" I'm a rape survivor. Go ahead and insult me. It'll show exactly who and what you are. Don't like it tough. I've got the clip for you and I can screencap it for you so you can see Rae is not enjoying what's happening to her. You're just pissed because I'm right. Talk about "venting" and "spewing". Clearly you're seeing something not there. If it was "love" and or "seduction/amour" then why did she drug the lemonade in order to make him unconscious and then put him in that raft to go back for her husband? If it is as YOU say it is, then wouldn't Rae have left John to rot/sink and therefore die at sea so she and Hughie could go off and enjoy this "love" together? Again no new pregnancy, no seduction, no cheating. Rae loved her husband and went back for him because of that love. Clearly you're as deluded as Hughie.
shareprometheus1816..
I give you all the credit in the world to make the time to bring common sense to this thread. I glanced at it the other day and simply didn't have the time myself but I did think at first they must be referring to another film or that the op was living in some alternate universe where every meaning really is opposite of its intention..
This film has been a favorite nicole kidman film of mine for years and I'd never seen such a confounded and imaginary subtext of psychological mumbo jumbo in my life.
Clearly Rae was captive and had to use her wits to survive which included manipulation of the psychopathic/psychotic Hughie who seemed certain to rape and kill her.
There was no love or passion. No pregnancy (wtf). He was going to rape her one way or another. He'd already murdered everyone on the other boat so that was clearly his end game too.
She and her husband John were grieving over their son and if the psycho Hughie preformed any function it would be to wake Rae up to realize how much she still wanted to wanted to live and find a way to dig her out of the depths of depression to be fully alive to do whatever she had to to help save herself and John.
There was never a subtext of alpha and beta male for Rae when you're dealing with a madman. She clearly loves her husband. And John clearly did everything he could once he discovered who he was dealing with.
The only confusion I ever had about this film was why Billy Zane didn't become a bigger star from this role.
bohemianroxie (831):
Thank you. When I saw this thread I laughed thinking, "are they kidding around?" The more I read the more I realized they weren't. Given I was a HUGE Sam Neill fan from his role as Damien Thorn in "The Final Conflict" I've seen practically every film he's been in, so when this came on my pay television channel I saw it. It was here I discovered the beautiful Ms. Kidman.
At no point have I ever been in doubt it was a survival story. Rae trying to overcome the death of her son, and embrace that will to live. That aria that plays when Rae is piloting the Ingram sailboat back to rescue John gave me the chills. I finally had to find out what that piece was. It's by SPK and I bought their album because of it.
As for the "amour" these two numbskulls see, I see a woman who first drugs the lemonade and then harpoons Hughie, only to shove him off the boat into a raft. If that's what they class as "sexy" or "loving" then I'll be a monkey's uncle. That scene when she spots John and reaches out her hand to take his as she brings him back aboard the boat is evidence of all she endured to find him again, and in so doing they found their way back to each other after such a devastating loss. And what a way for Hughie to "show his love" by trying to strangle his "beloved" at the end. My god what a laugh it's been reading this thread. Thank you for injecting some much needed sense and clarity to it. I salute you.
I agree about Billy, but then it was because of this film James Cameron cast him in "Titanic". The second most money maker displayed what Zane does and does well, play unstable maniacs. I mean that scene when he uses that child to win a place in one of the life boats...... Wonderfully played by Zane because I hated Cal for doing that.
Prometheus & Bohemianroxie are right on: Rae was never "attracted" to Hughie; he was a freakin' psycho murderer. So he was handsome and had a good physique, whoop-dee-doo. She was in survival mode and did what she had to in order to survive the crisis and save her family.
Regarding the argument that Rae was 'into' having sex with Hughie due to supposed evidence, she was putting on an act to survive the situation -- doing whatever she had to in order to win. As for physiological evidence, consider being held captive by terrorists and they eventually give you food to eat. Your body may appreciate the sustenance because you were starving, but that doesn't mean you love the abusers and appreciate dining with madmen.
Thank you for speaking up Wuchak. Whatever "handsomeness" Hughie may or may not have had was obviated by his insanity. I found John to be far more heroic and handsome because of his dedication to his wife. And yes Rae was in survival mode. Again what part of the harpoon and the spiking the drink in order to get Hughie off the boat didn't these idiots understand?
She was in full blown act. She loved her husband and did what she had to do to get back to him knowing The Orpheus was sinking if not already sunk. Any suggestion Rae may have orgasmed while being raped by Hughie is held up by the shame women feel when they do indeed orgasm while being raped. That is the biggest shame in that the body betrays them in that the body acts independently of the self. And you're spot on with the terrorist reference.
"Let's hope you're never raped."
That's uncalled for since I have when I was younger dealt with that. And that has no bearing on this matter.
"The scene is not filmed as erotic. You can clearly see Rae does not want to do it but is FORCED into it in order to subdue Hughie and guess what GO BACK TO GET HER HUSBAND THE MAN SHE LOVES. And what polls are you jabbing about?"
I never denied that Rae didn't love her husband. Go back and read what I said.
As for polls look them up. Any time there's talk of Sam Neill and Billy Zane's characters many people turn to Hughie as the more attractive of the two. Podcast reviews of the movie have spoken highly of Zane's attractiveness in the movie with many jokingly saying "leave my husband behind" which for every attempt at humor there stems an element of truth. One recent online poll had Hughie win with no votes going to John. Given your spamming and namecalling I can see this bothers you, but if I were to link you to these discussions how could I insure you wouldn't harass those online posters?
"Did you note the line FORCED TO ENDURE THE BRUNT OF HUGHIE'S ATTACKS. Force equals rape."
I did note the line; the brunt of Hughie's attacks being when they clashed. But we aren't talking about when Rae was conquering back the Saracean. During the love scene there was no violence on either side. Hughie didn't force himself on Rae.
"Rae was buying time in order to try to subdue Hughie and get back to John."
Are you reading my posts before replying? I never argued this point. When I say she's playing the role of his lover (a point you disputed) this was what I was getting at. She used sex and seduction to her advantage.
"Hughie was antisocial. He claimed the crew of the Orpheus ate some mushrooms and went insane."
I thought you saw the movie recently? I didn't but I distinctly remember Hughie saying the crew died from canned salmon (which John surmised the crew obtained botulism from). Hughie wasn't antisocial either.
Sorry, I found John more sexy. I didn't even know who Billy Zane was before "Dead Calm". Sam Neill I knew and saw the film FOR him. There was no frigging love scene. It was survival and Rae did what she did for that purpose only. You still haven't acknowledged the harpoon gun, the spiking of the lemonade, the shoving him off into the raft and setting him adrift. Nothing shows love like harpooning a guy and then shoving him off the sailboat. By the very nature of his close contact with Rae and her inability to leave it was a forced intimacy. But there was nothing loving or giving about it. It as perfunctory for Rae as "getting it over with" so she could move on to get rid of Hughie so she could go back to find her husband.
This isn't about "spamming" or "namecalling" it's about making you understand that she harpooned the guy, spiked his drink, then got him off the boat as soon as she could so she could go back for her husband. This does bother me because people or should I say jerks like you seem to think what this was was a LOVE SCENE. It wasn't. It was a rape of a woman by a madman. You don't even acknowledge that aspect. Hughie was a psychopath not a normal man. You seem to think it was all consensual. It wasn't. There was nothing consensual about Hughie's treatment of Rae. Nothing. You also don't seem to acknowledge all the times Rae tried to get away from him until it was too late to do anything but to give in and let it happen. And that's what it was.
You have been saying it was all blissful love and that she got pregnant by him and that was the reason she "made love" with him. You and others have concocted all this crap in order to justify your warped sense of what was actually happening on screen. Are you reading my posts?
Canned salmon equals some sort of "mushroom" effect. The point is the bodies were hacked apart. This denoted murder. Hughie was antisocial. His very nature was antisocial. We cannot believe anything Hughie says because what John found one of the women beheaded. Just playing that scene right now on my computer as of this writing. In the scene where John is aboard The Orpheus Hughie is pounding down the door on the Saracen plus acting like a caged animal. That is antisocial behaviour. If he's all innocent why not go back aboard The Orpheus with John to prove what he said was the truth? Clearly Hughie didn't want John going over there. Why? Because he went apeman on those people. Ergo antisocial behaviour.
"Sam Neill I knew and saw the film FOR him."
Your motives are becoming more clear now, but I'd say being a fan of Sam Neill doesn't excuse the sex appeal of Billy Zane or any of the roles he plays. And Dead Calm is one such film that spurs these discussions. This isn't the first topic to go over the controversy and it won't be the last.
"You still haven't acknowledged the harpoon gun, the spiking of the lemonade, the shoving him off into the raft and setting him adrift." Because these all happen after the love scene. That's the only reason. By that point she has already mated with Hughie and was looking for new opportunities to disable Hughie so she could go back for John. Again, I never argue that Rae isn't trying to save John.
There are many forms of love that differ from the normal "husband/wife" relationship. Cuckoldry in itself is a Husband and Wife still in love, but the wife is promiscuous with other men. The wife still loves her husband, but can or has made love with other men.
Rae has always been a nurturing character ehich is why she never follows through with killing Hughie even though she tries to act like she will, Rae doesn't bring herself to do it. When Hughie is drugged, Rae ties him up rather than toss him overboard. When Hughie escapes Rae fires the harpoon gun at his shoulder to stun, not kill. When Hughie gives her a chance to by placing his neck at the next bolt, Rae decides to knock him out and place him on a life raft that she later searches for after saving John. This is not someone who wants to kill her captor.
Also, you did lie about what Hughie said in regards to the Fate of the Orpheus crew. There is a difference between saying someone died from mushrooms and someone died from canned salmon that has effects that could be related to mushrooms. You're arguing you saw this movie recently, but you make such obvious mistakes about that, the sex scene, etc.
Hughie clashed with Russell Bellows, but the women on the Orpheus didn't seem to mind Hughie at the time. And what happened on that yacht is left ambiguous. Hughie never directly states he killed all those people. He said they tried to kill him and the found footage shows there were problems with Hughie and Bellows before and which escalated after the ship started showing signs of sinking.
You admire John's naval history, but he underestimated the damage of the yacht thinking he could salvage it. But even he couldn't do that.
I remember a theory that Bellows had cabin fever and tried to turn the crew against Hughie. It's just a theory but adds to the ambiguity of never seeing what happened on the Orpheus.
"The fact they encountered Hughie didn't mean Rae suddenly wanted to jettison her husband and find another "breeder"."
Of course that wasn't the plan, but things don't always go as intended events go in different directions. John said they would start again, but the implication from Rae having sex with Hughie from a thematical standpoint is that Hughie impregnated Rae in his stead.
"If a woman finds a strange man standing in her bedroom who then tells her all he wants is sex then he'll go, then proceeds to have sex with her on her own bed, is that not rape?"
Rae welcomed Hughie into her bedroom and Hughie did not force himself on Rae prior when he had every opportunity to.
"She did what she had to do to appease, not entice, or seduce."
So kissing him, lifting her arms up to have her shirt removed, kissing down his chest, and saying the cigarettes were for later were not acts of seduction?
I'm only going to address your idiocy with the "Rae welcomed him into her bed" nonsense. She didn't "welcome him". He took her in there. There was no "inviting" about it. He took her there. And again you failed to note she kept trying to stop what was about to happen anyway. Stop trying to make it all about "love" or "consent". She was marooned with him on that boat. Either she got it over with and did what she had to do to get back to John, or he'd end up killing her as he did those aboard The Orpheus. FULL STOP!
You did notice she kissed him down the chest then told him she had to go to the bathroom, then went up on deck to ready the harpoon gun. You keep forgetting the frigging HARPOON GUN. She wasn't wanting what about to happen. She was readying a frigging HARPOON GUN. You don't harpoon a guy you're claiming she wants to have consensual sex with. The nature of the FORCED intimacy is indeed indicative of force. She had no choice. The getting of the cigarettes was to cover for her READYING THE HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN. HARPOON GUN.
Nothing says love like a HARPOON GUN.
If you truly saw the movie I imolore you to look up the scene again. As Rae grabs the cigarettes and kisses Hughie. Who goes first to the bedroom and who follows? If you say Hughie you are wrong or you have some other cut of the film that hasn't been released yet. Feel free to check, but I'll be happy to screencap it later as there's no nudity in that shot of the film.
She went up on deck to load the shotgun as well. The harpoon gun doesn't show up till later. You are free to fact check this as well. I can screencap this scene if you like.
You keep forgetting the point where SHE HAD NO CHOICE. No choice denotes no other choice but to allow it to happen. Still doesn't make it consensual. And here's a screencap of two expressions from Rae:
https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/prometheus1816/vlcsnap-00008.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/prometheus1816/vlcsnap-00007.jpg
Schure doesn't look like she's enjoying his touches or the thought of being with him. Hey, even the bed scene:
Looks like a grimace to me: https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/prometheus1816/vlcsnap-00010.jpg Certainly doesn't look like a woman in full stream of orgasmic joy.
To add: Final shot of John and Rae looking at Hughie's floating body.... sure looks like Rae is staring in definance at Hughie while being held and holding her beloved husband: https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii170/prometheus1816/vlcsnap-00011.jpg Translation of the look: John is mine, you have no more claim on me or my body. Ergo, she despised Hughie and did only what she had to do to SURVIVE.
As what John kept saying to her, "we have to get strong" and that she did to fight for herself and John.
I can screencap too ya know:
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700741445
This is a production photo of Rae and Hughie pre-sex. Certainly captured in an erotic display with warm colors and Hughie even more revealing.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700740812
Here's the actual kissing scene that followed their embrace. No resentment; just Rae acting passionate and holding him.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700740643
As I said, she lifts her arms giving Hughie the go ahead to undress her top.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700740596
Rae even grinds on top of him after he removes her shirt.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700740640
She wraps around him and moans in surprise arousal once her shorts are ripped effortlessly by Hughie.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700741001
Rae has a sex flush and looks quite aroused physically even though she's seducing Hughie with foreplay.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700740818
As Rae is putting her plan into motion to go on deck she forms another sexualized act of kissing down his chest.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700741630
Here's Rae responding to Hughie's touch after she gives up on the shotgun and goes back down to resume her role as Hughie's lover.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700742057
Rae looks into Hughie's eyes as he slowly moves on top of her. He isn't forceful during this and there's points Rae looks down at his member.
During the sex there is a wave of emotions. Some pleaseure, some annoyed, some excited. Here's some examples:
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700741632
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700741441
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700741278
So kissing him, lifting her arms up to have her shirt removed, kissing down his chest, and saying the cigarettes were for later were not acts of seduction?
It was all an act in order to survive the situation and save her family. She was never attracted to Hughie or 'into' having sex with him.
Remember that real-life episode several years ago where some psycho rapist/murderer broke into a woman's house and she put on an act, saying she loved him (etc.), in order to survive the crisis and live another day? It worked and the man was taken into custody. The same thing was happening in this movie, except that Hughie was three-times the wackjob. share
Apparently this idiot hasn't remembered the harpoon gun and the spiking of the lemonade. Like I said nothing says love like a harpoon in the shoulder and spiking lemonade to get him unconscious so she could chuck him off the boat. I suppose that's love to this guy. I would really hate to be his girlfriend/wife.
shareI haven't seen it for a couple of years, but "Dead Calm" is one of my favorite movies, which I've seen at least four times, and I never got the impression for a second that Rae was attracted to the murderous psycho and 'into' having sex with him. I asked my wife for a second, honest opinion (she's known for giving ruthless reviews when necessary) and she wholeheartedly agreed.
Actually, the film goes out of its way (as you point out) to show that Rae was thoroughly against Hughie and merely put on an act when applicable to survive the situation and save her husband/family.
I just reviewed it yesterday in order to rebut these stupid posts. I've seen the film many times since 1990 when I first saw it on pay television. Like you I've never gotten the impression Rae wanted Hughie in any way. She got it over with so she could find John. That was always her goal was to get back to John. Any implication she "made love" with Hughie is just these idiot superimposing their imaginations or egos into the film. And again I guess nothing says love quite like spiking lemonade, harpooning him in the shoulder, then casting him adrift in a raft in order to travel the opposite way to rescue a husband one apparently doesn't care one iota for since the entire voyage was solely to find a ..... breeder??????
shareYou're going back and forth in your arguments. For starters I never argue that Rae never wants to rescue her husband or that she no longer loves him. On the contrary, the obstacles Rae goes through help Rae to evolve into a more fierce, powerful woman. Even though she never brings herself to kill Hughie she is still a nurturing, compassionate woman.
https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=501700739669
You guys may try and double down with your petty arguments and childish behaviour, but SaraceänWarriner is right. If you REALLY watch the film and completely analyze it you'd come to the same conclusions he's pointed out. This is Rae's story of loss and gain, of weakness and strength, of her evolving from timid housewife to a brave seductive and resourceful warrior woman. The events that transpired aboard the Ingram yatch was due to her husband's carelessness and forced her in a position where she needed to do what had to be done in order to rescue him and survive herself. Even though Hughie was an obstacle she had to overcome there was no doubt there was a physical attraction between the two. Her reactions to him during the seduction were genuine and not an act just to survive. She willfully wrapped her arms around him during their kiss, allowed him to undress her and lifted her arms so he could remove her shirt. Grinding against him and kissing his chest as well as her allowing him inside her and experiencing a sex flush. So all your arguments to the contrary fall flat.
shareThere's a certain irony about you calling out others for their "childish behavior" when they've been pretty patient and intricate in trying to explain the difference between rape and consent...
You and your buddy SaraceanWarriner have interestingly enough never commented on another topic and seem to be in some perfect simpatico with one another enough to raise some suspicion. Maybe you're the same person. I don't know. But there's also 3 other likely scenarios to your delusions..
1) You're pulling our leg.
2) You're very young and so enthralled by the very concept of nudity, the act of intercourse itself and the good looks of Billy Zane that you find ways to justify the villain as misunderstood and the intentions of consent versus rape getting all confused in your adolescent over analytical attraction to the act of penetration itself (and Billy Zane). You also don't know women very well even if you happen to be one and imagine everything is tied to some freudian mystique.
3) You imagine everything actually means something else. You love conspiracy's.
No one else that sees this film would consider there any ambiguity to the fact that Hughie did kill the passengers on that other boat or imagine that Nicole Kidman's character Rae actually had the hots for Hughie and was hoping to get knocked up..
Or that what happened was her being unfaithful.
Ted Bundy had good looks but was a serial killer. Good thing neither of you guys ever met him.
BRAVO!!!! Amazing post and your hitting on the fact these two have solidly sat on this board with this ridiculous scenario speaks volumes. Thank you for pointing that out. Amazing that a serial killer that is good looking is amazingly wonderful over that of a good man who was trying to help heal his wife over the tragic death of their son. That good man who despite all barriers that stood in his way, strove to get back to his wife who was being terrorized and raped by a madman. Niiiiiiiiiice.
shareIt is funny you are accusing me of being a sock puppet as I found your posts along with Prometheus to be coincidental on a message board that barely has much activity on it until these last couple days. I don't care if you are a friend/sockpuppet to the childish Prometheus user, and it doesn't bother me if you think I'm a sock puppet. At the end of the day I only look at the content of the posts and if it's worth a discussion.
shareI've been on this board since the fall of the IMDb boards several years ago..and there's always some activity going on around here.
What happens when someone comments on a particular thread on this message board is that it comes up on what's "trending" at the top of the page...as in.....it has activity ..,.it alerts users to recent comments on a certain topic..
Did you know that?
I think it was the "other you" that I suggested might be a sock puppet.
But if the shoe fits.
No comments on anything else I suggested?
Anyway..now you've been schooled both on how this message boards work as well as the difference between rape and consensual sex.
Have a nice life.
Yeah you definitely sound like Prometheus, whether a sock puppet or a tool/friend which is good cause she needs all the help she can get after lying and whining didn't do much.
shareWell I tweeted Sam Neill and he thinks you are bonkers. He says it was clear Rae was locked in a life or death struggle with Hughie and anything other than what is on screen is only your delusion. So from the horse's mouth. I'm sure Billy Zane would agree with Sam as would Nicole and director Philip Noyce. So please stop your stupid now before you truly look like an idiot.
shareYou can call ot what you like, but Rae was seducing Hughie regardless if you believe she was raped or not. I mention it's an act of seduction cause 'Prometheus' was arguing that Rae wasn't acting and then giving reasons why she was. During the sex scene there were natural reactions Rae had to Highie that weren't acts. Rae didn't fake the moan she made after Hughie ripped her shorts off cause it happened too quickly for her to fake her surprise arousal. And during the act she is wavering netween moans of pleasure and pain, even at one point moving her arms up and down Hughie's back while she moves in for a kiss that she stops abruptly.
shareDuring the sex scene there were natural reactions Rae had to Highie that weren't acts. Rae didn't fake the moan she made after Hughie ripped her shorts off cause it happened too quickly for her to fake her surprise arousal. And during the act she is wavering netween moans of pleasure and pain, even at one point moving her arms up and down Hughie's back while she moves in for a kiss that she stops abruptly.
This was answered in my above post; here it is again:
Regarding the argument that Rae was 'into' having sex with Hughie due to supposed evidence, she was putting on an act to survive the situation. As for physiological evidence, consider being held captive by terrorists and they eventually give you food to eat. Your body may appreciate the sustenance because you were starving, but this doesn't mean you love the abusers or appreciate dining with madmen.
This explains why rape counselors have a standard answer for SOME victims who feel guilty because a part of them "enjoyed" the act, which was simply a natural reaction of the body.
So your interpretation has an element of validity, but it doesn't mean Rae wanted to drop her husband/family and f*** Hughie forevermore. Yes, he had a dark handsomeness -- like, say, Dracula -- but he was still a loathsome piece of sheet.
In discussions like this, all the evidence in the movie has to be considered so we can put the pieces of the puzzle together and draw a proper conclusion. The opposing pieces shared on this thread point to the conclusion that Rae was totally against madman Hughie and put on an act with him to survive the crisis and save her husband & family. Perhaps she experienced some natural reactions to this Dracula-like psycho during the performance, so what? share
"So your interpretation has an element of validity, but it doesn't mean Rae wanted to drop her husband/family and f*** Hughie forevermore. Yes, he had a dark handsomeness -- like, say, Dracula -- but he was still a loathsome piece of sheet."
I appreciate you gave me some room of agreement in my analysis though I never argued Rae was going to drop her husband and shack with Hughie forevermore. What started out as an act of seduction escalates into a momentary release for Rae who was an emotional wreck from her traumatic experience and starts out as too timid, mousy before she changes into a wild, fiery and resourceful woman.
though I never argued Rae was going to drop her husband and shack with Hughie forevermore.
I know you didn't; what I said was hyperbole. share
Well I tweeted Sam Neill and he thinks you are bonkers. He says it was clear Rae was locked in a life or death struggle with Hughie and anything other than what is on screen is only your delusion. So from the horse's mouth. I'm sure Billy Zane would agree with Sam as would Nicole and director Philip Noyce. So please stop your stupid now before you truly look like an idiot.
shareIs this more of your lies? You've lied about aspects of the film and I see no tweets from Sam Neill discussing the film recently. Even if he did agree with you he is an actor, not the writer/director.
shareWe follow each other therefore we DM each other. I love his wine that he sells at his Two Paddocks Vineyard. I buy direct. So go screw. I've not lied about aspects of the film. You've just concocted all this crap up in your mind and unfortunately for you, scribbled it on a message board. So sad. Ahhhhh the satisfaction of debunking all this madness.
shareYeah, I don't believe you. Sorry. Anyone can be a fan of his wine and know public information about the guy. Doesn't mean you're chummy.
shareSo sad for you that you're so bitter and a silly little human being who likes to have rapey and pregnancy fantasies about fictional films. Hey, fanfic.net still exists. Why not go on over there and write a fanfic all about your stupidity about this film. Did I say we were chummy. His Pinot Noir is excellent by the way.
shareThere's a difference between being chummy with someone and messaging them via Twitter, Facebook, email or whatever. It's not too difficult to get ahold of celebrities in this day and age, especially if they're has-beens (not that Neill is necessarily a "has-been"; just that he ain't where he was in the 80s-90s). In the last dozen years I fairly easily made contact with several notable rock stars, authors and so on.
I'm pretty sure Sam wouldn't be too hard to get ahold of if you want to contact him and confirm Prometheus' story, not to mention share your interpretation in a more direct manner.
I'm more than happy to be proven otherwise. I'll wait.
shareStop spreading your lies, you don't know Sam Neill. In fact, you don't know jack sh*t about anything.You're just here to waste our time spewing nonsense and spreading your hateful vitriol.
shareSpreading vitriol? Spreading vitriol? I'm not the one conjuring up pregnancy fantasies about a rapist and his rape victim in a fictional film. So please spare me your silly little nursery school nonsense. Now run along little Drifter and play in the sandbox. Remember share the shovels and the pails. Other children want them too ya know.
shareI'm only seeing one child here, and that's the person lying, namecalling and repeating words nonstop. This bickering does nothing to the topic at hand.
shareWhat, you looking in the mirror? I cam in and debunked your whole scenario and you're just pissed because I've broken your wittle fewwings. You think you're able to have a grown up discussion about film. You think you're right. Like Hughie you can't take rejection. Well I've rejected your whole ridiculous notion of that scene in the film being anything other than what it was: Rape. No matter what you say it'll always be that. I'm only name calling because you seem to think you're intelligent. You're not. You've proven time and time again you cannot discuss this without it breaking your whole paradigm. Oh the harpoon gun is repeating words nonstop? No it was inserting that FACT into your brain since every other attempt to have a decent discussion with you fails. And you're accusing me of lying. WOW, very adult of you.
shareShame this thread has dissolved into petty arguments and finger pointing. It started out as fascinating and thought provoking and I wished it had stayed that way.
shareIt still can if there were likeminded people that weren't trying to shut others down for not sharing the same outlook on a movie that has different interpretations to it.
You are wondering if John knew about his wife's infidelity? It's hard to say. I don't believe she did but I have my reasons why I suspect as much.
This is what we see when Rae rescues John from the remains of the sunken Orpheus:
https://i.postimg.cc/sg00LvB0/Rae-Comforting-John.png
Her eyes seem to indicate a sadness in the fact that she committed adultery and obtained arousal from it. She's deciding whether she wants to spoil the mood of finding her husband by telling John that she was unfaithful.
https://i.postimg.cc/02Vt6bC2/Rae-Annoyed.png
When John discovers the raft that Hughie was in, Rae was very quick to catch up and see for herself. Look at the facial expressions on both characters. One is oblivious and the other concealing agitation. I'll let you determine which is which.
https://i.postimg.cc/GhL7hkG5/Rae-Annoyed2.png
https://i.postimg.cc/Z50w64fP/Rae-Annoyed3.png
First, we see John look off dumbfounded that Hughie disappeared and is presumed dead. If he knew that Hughie had claimed his wife for himself he probably would have a look of anger or resentment that he was unable to confront Hughie about it. Rae on the other hand starts to flare up in anger over not knowing what became of Hughie when she left him on the raft and being unable to keep him tied up like before.
https://i.postimg.cc/QMTSnSZH/Rae-Annoyed4.png
https://i.postimg.cc/d1cnMdJn/Rae-Annoyed5.png
https://i.postimg.cc/QdP0bwP2/Rae-Annoyed6.png
To bring herself a sense of closure, Rae formulates a plan to take one of the flares and shoot the raft down. This is to bring a end to her concerns, but also a last ditch effort to see if Hughie was hiding. Obviously, Hughie has left an impression on her to get Rae so bothered like this.
https://i.postimg.cc/26dGC66Y/Rae-Annoyed7.png
The clothes she's wearing now resemble the same color pattern as the blanket Hughie kept wrapped around himself, indicating that she is bearing Hughie's seed. John still continues to remain confused by Rae's actions but does not question them.
https://i.postimg.cc/Kz5PdHqv/Rae-Sw-imming.png
Afterwards is another bit of closure for herself. After sweating and sharing herself with Hughie, Rae decides to take a dip and cleanse herself. Rae seems pleased with herself and in no way comes across as being victimized or traumatized. Indeed she washes away her worries and relaxes.
https://i.postimg.cc/htRkrJd8/John-Rae-Pre-Wash.png
https://i.postimg.cc/CKm9Sm6J/John-Rae-Post-Wash.png
After cleaning herself as best she can of any bodily fluids, Rae rests and allows John to wash her hair and make her breakfast. John seems pleased with himself, but also so does Rae. Wouldn't the chemistry between the two be different if John knew Rae had went to bed with Hughie?
https://i.postimg.cc/wBXLmrdc/Rae-Washed.png
https://i.postimg.cc/zfZT3r4G/Rae-Washed2.png
Look how pleased with herself she initially comes across as. She received carnal satisfaction from Hughie and John is none the wiser; even more in Rae's service than prior to meeting Hughie.
https://i.postimg.cc/hjKxb0DF/Rae-Washed3.png
https://i.postimg.cc/gJ4hM6jx/Rae-Washed4.png
Even though there's a sense of self gratification, you can see a look of concern on her face. As though she senses she may be pregnant and is deciding what the next course of action will be.
https://i.postimg.cc/TYKb916P/Rae-Washed5.png
John (unaware of Rae's moments of doubt and concern) plays along with Rae's discussions about extravagant pleasures. Rae brings herself back in the moment and makes sensual moans as they banter.
https://i.postimg.cc/MHTQgKfd/Rae-Washed6.png
Even so, Rae still can't shake away the concern that she's pregnant. It's what she wanted though she didn't anticipate that it would come from another man that was not her husband.
https://i.postimg.cc/Gt5yRwkr/Rae-Washed7.png
https://i.postimg.cc/VsGMnM2T/Rae-Washed8.png
https://i.postimg.cc/ncNDwxFG/Rae-Washed9.png
Regardless of her concerns, it's not enough for her to potentially ruin what she currently has with John by telling him this news. Instead of jeopardize their happy and rejuvenated marriage, Rae will keep these thoughts to herself and should she be carrying Hughie's seed she can always pass it off as John's further down the road. Since John bends his will to Rae without question and with gratitude for having his life saved, Rae seems confident that John will not press her for what occurred between herself and Hughie.
You seem to be much in the know about this film and I'm very interested to find out more. Feel free to send me a private message and hopefully we can discuss further regarding this intriguing thriller.
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