MovieChat Forums > The Sting (1973) Discussion > Question about the final bet

Question about the final bet

posted 25 days ago by fountainhead (318)
5 replies | jump to latest

"Harmon" tells Linneman to "Place it on Lucky Dan". Lonihan, not being familiar with horse race lingo, assumes he meant Lucky Dan to win first place.

What I don't get is, was the con dependent upon Lonnegan making this mistake and thus betting on the wrong horse? We know the "FBI" was going to come in and disrupt the race anyway, but they were only put into the scenario later on in the operation when Gondorff found out Hooker was in trouble with Snyder. So what was the plan if Lonnegan correctly placed the bet on Lucky Dan?

Also, why would Harmon tell Lonnegan he made a mistake (when he says "I said PLACE! That horse is gonna run second!")? Was it just to rub it in even more?

[–] strntz (10854) 25 days ago

Very simply - it was *us* the movie watchers that were also stung - it was a movie making device and a damned clever one. Lonnegan didn't really need to actually screw up the bet as we shall see..

The first time we see this film, we were led to believe that Gondorff and Hooker were going to beat Lonnegan with the "place it on Lucky Dan" goof - that's how they were going to beat him.

But, that wasn't enough. We thought that the racing lingo trick worked and Lonnegan lost his money (movie over!), but there was also the sub plot where Hooker set up Gondorff to save Luther Coleman's widow from prison by making a deal with the FBI. The FBI (remember, we were also led to believe that Agent Polk was a real FBI man) raid the place after Gondorff beats Lonnegan with the "place it" lingo sting and shoot Gondorff dead after Gondorff had shot Hooker dead for betraying him.

It isn't until Lonnegan is hustled out after the shooting that we learn that Agent Polk is one of Gondorf's guys, Gondorff wasn't killed, and Hooker did NOT set up Gondorff after all.

So the FBI "raid and shooting" was to convince Lonnegan that he would be better off taking the money loss than risk getting tied up into an illegal betting scheme where a killing took place. *That* was how Gondorff and Hooker planned to beat Lonnegan, not the lingo bet foul up.

So if we go one step further, we can assume that if Lonnegan did happen to place the bet on Lucky Dan to "place" (the correct bet), the phony FBI raid still would have happened and Lonnegan would still have been removed without his money either way.

The reason we get the whole racing lingo screwup is to misdirect the movie watchers into thinking the lingo was the sting, not the phony FBI raid.

[–] FilmBuff (6695) 25 days ago

Definitely true that the information was kept from the viewers as a "sting" on us as well, but there was also a very real plot reason for all of it, as I detailed a moment ago in my reply to the O.P.

[–] fountainhead (318) 20 days ago

That's true, I guess it could have been a red herring for the audience. Watching the movie again recently, I had forgotten that the audience is not supposed to know the truth about the FBI.

[–] strntz (10854) 19 days ago

Which is part of the brilliance of this film. On first viewing, we all think the FBI is real, Hooker set up Gondorff for the FBI, Gondorff kills Hooker for betraying him, and FBI Agent Polk then kills Gondorff for killing Hooker!

On second viewing we see it's Lieutenant Snyder and Lonegan being snookered and we get to enjoy the job that Gondorff's men pulled on Snyder and Lonegan.

It's like watching two different films.

[–] FilmBuff (6695) 25 days ago

It wasn't that Doyle Lonnegan was unfamiliar with horse race lingo. In fact, the trick only worked because he was very familiar with it. Kid Twist told him to place it on Lucky Dan with the assumption that Lonnegan would not clarify "win or place?" and would blindly race over and place a bet on Lucky Dan to win. That way, he would have legitimately, at least as far as he knew, lost all his money, and would have no valid reason to demand it back. Kid Twist can correctly say that he said "place" not "win," and Lonnegan, though angry, would hopefully have to admit defeat.

However, he MIGHT be too mad to give up and leave. He might try to kill Kid Twist, or Gondorff, or react in some unpredictable and deadly way. The faked FBI raid was to add a second layer of protection for Twist, Gondorff, Hooker and the rest.

Lastly, If Lonnegan ever did realize he'd been conned, or simply decided to force the issue and demand his money back or else he'd kill them all, they'd have been in trouble. Since Lonnegan thinks they are both dead, he won't pursue any sort of revenge.