MovieChat Forums > Plein soleil (1960) Discussion > Cinematography takes the cake

Cinematography takes the cake


I had the advantage of seeing this film NOT having read the novel or seen the remake, "The Talented Mr. Ripley." It was thus with fresh eyes, literally, that I took in this film. And the overwhelming thing about it was how stunningly beautiful it was to look at. Absolutely no suprise, given that Monsieur Decae was the cinematographer, brilliant as always. However, the distraction was so great that I think the transformation of the Tom Ripley character was lost, just a teeny bit. I'm thinking of scenes: The boat scene, obviously. The mirror scene ("I love you, Marge," lips on mirror). And particularly the market scene. What was he doing/thinking while walking there? I found it distracting, looking at the people in the background looking at the filming (?) going on. Did anyone else understand that scene or have a better sense of the transformation?


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the market scene is outstanding, especially the disturbing faces on the rays,

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Thanks for replying, cheitman, but unfortunately you didn't answer my question.

My confusion is as to whether the director wanted us to notice that the people in the marketplace were watching Ripley, because that was quite noticeable and even distracting. On first impression I thought, these people are staring at a movie being made, and/or they are noticing that it is Alain Delon, famous movie star, walking among them, in which case this is a distraction from us focusing on "Ripley." OR they are watching Ripley, Ripley is noticing this, and he is becoming self-conscious, even paranoid. That would clear up this messy technical problem, which, frankly one doesn't expect from a cinematographer as expert as Decae. There are no other crowd "issues" in the film that I saw. Perhaps it was too difficult to create a controlled situation?

Secondly, what was going on in this scene as relates to the story? What was the purpose of the walk in a public maretplace? Was Ripley thinking more evil thoughts, or perhaps getting tied up in guilt? I do know something now about the original story, where Ripley is a more inherently conniving person, whereas in this film he seems to be transformed by his experiences into performing criminal acts.

Perhaps a second viewing would clear this up. However, I won't be able to do this, as I saw this film as part of a French "thriller" series from the 50's and 60's at my local art cinema and I don't watch films at home. BTW, I saw your other post and noticed you talking about dubbing. I haven't seen a dubbed film here in the good ol' U.S. of A. since "Das Boot" (1981), and this must have been because the subtitled version was doing so well. Both versions, interestingly, are excellent. I think maybe any version of hysterical shouting sailors on a depthcharged submarine could work well.

But I digress.

Also, I saw the film maybe a month ago, so my memory isn't too fresh--I'm not sure what you mean by "the disturbing faces on the rays."



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The rays are the manta ray being sold for food in the marketplace - sorry, my original ost got cut off when PC crashed- glad somebody else want's to discuss the movie. The manta rays have a human-like face (which led them to being used in animal "forgeries" in the old days, sewing parts of rays or monkeys onto them) which is very disconcerting, especially in the marketplace daylight setting.

I watched the DVD again to check the scene in the market and I believe it wasn't intended to have the other shoppers stare at Delon to that extent. Ripley isn't written as being that stunningly handsome. Delon IS of course, and other posters in the review section have criticised the film for that (as well as being "slow"). I have little issue with the casting, but it looks like the shoppers are looking at Alain Delon on the set! I know that just a few years before there was great difficulty in shooting "Roman Holiday" there because of the crowds, and the film had to be done in very few takes before the crew was thronged. I think we caught the beginning of this.

In the book and the film, it doesn't seem like Ripley feels any guilt at all. At the end of "Purple Noon" he is certainly enjoying himself on the beach waiting for Marge. I think the answer, incomplete as it is, is that Rome is as much a star of the film as Delon, much as Florence was used in "Don't Look Now" by Roeg or Paris in "Bob le Flambuer". I hope this is of at least a little help.

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Yes, thanks cheitman. That would confirm my original impression. That still leaves me with the question of how he could go from joking pal to cold-blooded murderer in so short a period. It must have been a just a shallow relationship. It does turn out that he is a loner. Perhaps homosexual, but more likely just criminally demonized, and thus not really interested, or sidetracked, by sexual attraction. He never had any real attraction for Marge. Everything was eventually turned into an act. This would confirm my second impression, that we had to work beyond the film to figure these things out. Yes, the scenery is the co-star!

It's so amusing to hear people make fun of Delon's looks. So rare to have that classicism enjoined to a superb sense of acting. As part of that series, we also saw "Le Cercle Rouge" and "Bob Le Flambeur." Both, I would say better than "Purple Noon," as they were better in integrating character development and plot, as well as for getting a fine look at France, and Paris in particular. "Le Cercle" was a special treat. Tense, funny and realistic all at once.

Indeed, it is hard to find people who have seen these movies, and recently enough to comment on them.

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Hello again!
It's alluded to only briefly in "Purple Noon" (by Phillipe, on the boat) but Ripley is actually an imposter of sorts, who has fabricated the friendship. Phillipe mentions this to Marge but treats it more as something pathetic and amusing than disturbing. Of course this cavalier attitude spells his doom! "Purple Noon" picks up in the middle of Highsmith's novel, the recent movie with Damon and Law, though not as good, follows the whole story and lends more depth to Tom Ripley. He poses as a friend in order to try and share in Phillipe and Marge's upper-class "Jet set" lifestyle. You are dead on about Tom's feelings for Marge, his attraction to her is based more on wanting to BE Phillipe.

There has been a lot of debate as to Tom's sexuality, in the early part of "Purple Noon" on the carriage ride, Phillipe is vigorously making out with the young blonde woman and Tom starts making out with her as well. It's as if he would rather "be with" Phillipe intimately but this is the only acceptable way to do so. The newer movie makes Tom openly bisexual. Highsmith alluded to Tom possibly being gay, but of course the book was written in the 50's. More than being homosexual, there is something to the idea that Tom's sexuality is sublimated to his desire for material wealth and influence. Somebody on another board said that Tom is gay, but as "Phillipe" Tom is straight!

"Bob le Flambeur" is a really great movie, and I agree it's superior to this one. I have not seen "Le Cercle Rouge" yet but after "Purple Noon" I am going to seek it out very soon. Thanks!

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Hello, again, cheitman -

Not that I like to burden people with more than they already are being told what to read or see, but if you have not seen Polanski's "Knife in the Water" (1962), please do try and you will never look at another three-people-on-a boat movie again without coming back to it (as I believe at least one other Commenter has mentioned).

Well, it looks like I should go back to the orginal book now before I read one more thing about the two Ripley movies, as everyone thinks it's superior in every way.

One more recent movie that I would highly, highly recommend is the recent "The Return," a Russian movie. I will not say a peep and leave you to your own impressions. If and when you see it, reply to me on that board and we can have a good go at it on that one!

--Good movie going!

P.S. I usually don't inquire about these things, but can I ask what country and/or culture you are from? In terms of comparing notes, it might not be an irrelevant question. Plus I couldn't quite guess from your writing. If it makes you feel more inclined to answer, I'll let you know I'll feel like an ass if you say you're American.

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I have not seen "Knife in the Water" or "the Return", I will try and get them through the mail as soon as I can! I am an American living in South Dakota, actually, but I have lived in many cities like Seattle, Cincinnati, Milwaukee. I have spent some (brief) time in Australia (Melbourne) and Ireland. So I guess for better or worse I am not the typical midwestern American. I have to rent most of my movies through the mail, as we only get "Blockbuster" films in theatres here. Of ourse many of theose like "Master and Commander" and "Cold Mountain" are worth seeing too.

The 1999 Matt Damon-Jude Law movie is not quite as good as "Purple Noon" but it is more faithful to the book and gives you a little more insight into the characters. Unfortunately the second half of the movie (after Phillipe is killed) drags in my opinion. "Ripley's Game" with John Malkovitch is based on a later book about Ripley and is almost as good as "Purple Noon".

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Excellent! I'm glad you can get to see alot of quality movies through whatever means. Yes, there was an article in the NYTs about the Malkovitch film, apparently going straight to DVD.

It's interesting you mentioned M&C and CM. I enjoyed those two movies twice, something I rarely do.

I should qualify that KitW and tR are not mysteries or thrillers in the sense of the Ripley stories. Just excellent movies. That indeed is my first criteria when writing on this website--how a film works as a film.

O.K., gotta go now. I'm going to see "Invincible" as part of a Werner Herzog series.

Catch you later, and thanks for the chat. I'll look you up on the other threads.

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cheitman - About not being able to identify your country, there was one clue which I should have checked into before opeing my mouth (though I wouldn't have been able to identify your particular geography) -- the phrase "making out." That's American slang.

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Marie -

How wonderful to find an French cineaste to chat with (sorry, don't know how to make the proper diacritical marks). I'm very sorry I can't reply in French; I hope you'll excuse me. However, I appreciate your bilingual posts immensely and can understand and appreciate them (that's a story for another day).

Do you think that the Delon character, or even this film, can be placed in the French New Wave tradition, or is it just a post-WWII sense that you're referring to? The film, after all was released in 1960, not 1950. My sense is that the original writer was simply interested in exploring the character of a quite malicious anti-social type, good for mysteries and not particularly important as to which time period he lived in.


"Gentles, perchance you wonder at this show;
But wonder on, till truth make all things plain."
-- A Midsummer Night's Dream

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Marie -

I have had the good fortune to see a few of the films you mentioned. Antonioni has been one of my favorite directors since I first started watching serious/auteur film in my teens. "L'Eclisse" is a touchstone for me. Last year I saw "Rocco and His Brothers." Absolutely great film, but somewhat operatic for my tastes. Italian films, and particularly the Neo-Realists, are among my favorites.

Can you tell me your reaction, and perhaps the French reception, to Bertolucci's "The Dreamers"? I was not terribly happy with it, as you can tell from my comments. From your comment, "France today feels nostalgia for that lost past," one would imagine a better identification with it.


"Gentles, perchance you wonder at this show;
But wonder on, till truth make all things plain."
-- A Midsummer Night's Dream

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Just a note here for the record: The market scene, which is so intriguing if not entirely easy to interpret, is set in Naples and not in Rome. As for the interpretation, his interest in the fish might be seen as another reflection of the healthy appetite he shows after the two killings. And, of course, the fish and especially the final shot of the severed fish head on the ground are rather obvious reflections of death.

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great scene, indeed.


Season's Greetings!

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It was Venice where "Don't look now" with Julie Christie and Donald Sutherland has been filmed, not Florence :).

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This movie was a third one to Alain Delon and his age was only 25. Nobody in the market knows him. Alain Delon was not a famous actor at that time.

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Probably it was film equipment and cameras that caused people in the market to look. Natural curiosity about what was going on.

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According to a Criterion DVD extra the fish market scene was Tom looking at his 'victims' and the scales as justice. Which he did get in this movie....

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The remake supposedly is much closer to the book but Highsmith loved Delon's performance and interpretation of the character. My limited impression of this; she had not realized thenpotential behind what her novel could be with the right director and actor. Reminds me of how Pacino and Coppola elevated a dime store type of book into a cinematic masterpiece.

As for Ripley's transformation, you'll notice how much he changes from a nobody who goes unnoticed and treated condescendingly by others (a prey to people like Philippe and Freddie), into becoming the predator himself. After every killing, he seems ravenous, like a vampire that needs to feed off his victims. The killing doesn't weaken nor diminish him, in fact, he seems invigorated. As if the life force of his victims galvanizes and nourishes him. I think that market scene highlights that change. Before, he would've gone through that market unnoticed, invisible, but after, all eyes are on him. He strolls about with an otherworldly aura, a dangerous one yet beautiful. He's like a panther stalking his prey. He dresses different, he carries himself differently, he exudes confidence and charisma, and sex. Look at Marge, how she used to look at him, pityingy, and watch that scene when he asks her to play for him. Look at how the camera focuses on him, the angle of the shot, we see him as Marge sees him for the first time. He is seducing Marge and in a way, us too. And like Marge, we are seduced. He is a dangerous beauty, he mesmerizes and hypnotizes his victims, before draining their life force. In fact, it seems like the darkness in him enhances his beauty all the more, a psychopathic vampire.


Yeah I guess you can tell I love this film and Delon as well. But like you said, the cinematography and music really enhances this film. I said on another post that the remake The Talented Mr. Ripley is what Goodfellas is, in comparison to what Plein Soleil is to The Godfather.

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Btw I don't think the extras knew who Delon was when this was made. His breakout double feature film was Plein Soleil and Rocco and His Brothers, both released in 1960.

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I found this movie to be a case study of a sociopath.

One scene always haunted me. In his apartment in Rome, Ripley finally kills Freddie who's figured out he killed Greenleaf. After murdering a supposed "friend", Ripley sits down at a table with his back to the camera and devours a chicken leg. I felt more evil pouring out of Alain Delon's back in this shot than anything Mr. Damon did in the remake.

The cinematography is breathtaking. People made fun of Delon's looks? His eyes are the same color as the ocean in this film. The DP photographed Delon at his youthful peak. He's so beautiful, it's ridiculous.

P.S. For French film buffs: I have seen interviews with actors who say Mr. Delon's romantic image is a facade, and paint him as somewhat of a brute. They are quoted that his beauty masked a dark personality, possibly a result of his tough childhood. Sounds like Ripley may have been a bit of typecasting.

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People are not staring at Alain Delon the movie star - he was not one at that point.
But maybe they're staring at him cos he's, you know, one of the most good-looking men who ever walked this earth?


- A point in every direction is the same as no point at all.

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One scene always haunted me. In his apartment in Rome, Ripley finally kills Freddie who's figured out he killed Greenleaf. After murdering a supposed "friend", Ripley sits down at a table with his back to the camera and devours a chicken leg. I felt more evil pouring out of Alain Delon's back in this shot than anything Mr. Damon did in the remake.

Haha, I know what you mean!

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gioconda gioconda Thu Nov 1 2007 15:46:01
Post Edited: Wed Nov 7 2007 10:34:24

IMDb member since January 2002
Ripley devours the chicken

I found this movie to be a case study of a sociopath.

One scene always haunted me. In his apartment in Rome, Ripley finally kills Freddie who's figured out he killed Greenleaf. After murdering a supposed "friend", Ripley sits down at a table with his back to the camera and devours a chicken leg. I felt more evil pouring out of Alain Delon's back in this shot than anything Mr. Damon did in the remake.

The cinematography is breathtaking. People made fun of Delon's looks? His eyes are the same color as the ocean in this film. The DP photographed Delon at his youthful peak. He's so beautiful, it's ridiculous.

P.S. For French film buffs: I have seen interviews with actors who say Mr. Delon's romantic image is a facade, and paint him as somewhat of a brute. They are quoted that his beauty masked a dark personality, possibly a result of his tough childhood. Sounds like Ripley may have been a bit of typecasting.


gioconda91423 gioconda91423 Mon Aug 29 2016 07:33:55
IMDb member since December 2003
Re: Ripley devours the chicken

Sorry ... I should have posted this w/spoiler black lines over the part about Freddie...imdB software won't allow me to edit that post any more...

sorry people...

When you log in with the same username, you can spoiler and edit your post again.
In 9 years or so...




Eins, zwei, drei im Sauseschritt,
läuft die Zeit, - wir laufen mit.
(Wilhelm Busch)

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gioconda91423 (Wed Aug 31 2016 02:17:45)
Post Edited: Wed Aug 31 2016 03:25:31


Actually...no...the software does not have the "edit" function on the particular post I'd like to edit and use the spoiler option --- I can edit other posts...not that particular post for some odd reason. There is no delete or edit option.

So your thinly veiled insult regarding 'in 9 years or so"...well friend ... does not apply... good try though... 

That's the reason you deleted your own post of last Monday?
Here a screenshot as a memory:
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=137840-1472675743.jpg

Neither "veiled" nor a "try".
I'm straight, socky...er...sweety. 
In 2007 you edited your post 6 days later.
The delete-, edit- and spoiler-options are still there!
As said, you only need to log in with the same username.



There's nothing so finely spun,
it comes to the light of suns.
(german proverb...somewhat strange in English)

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gioconda91423 (Wed Aug 31 2016 14:34:44)

Not that it's a big deal, but no matter how I log in the three options are no longer available to me anymore... otherwise I would have edited the post.

I've noticed in other posts that after a year or two the options are no longer available. Maybe the edit options goes away after a few years. Don't really know why.

The original post is 9 years old. Perhaps that is what you referred to.

Whatever... was just trying to black out the part about a certain murder later in the film in case it spoiled it for some viewer.

Auf wiedersehen :)


gioconda91423 (Wed Aug 31 2016 14:35:26)

Not that it's a big deal, but no matter how I log in the three options are no longer available to me anymore... otherwise I would have edited the post.

I've noticed in other posts that after a year or two the options are no longer available. Maybe the edit options goes away after a few years. Don't really know why.

The original post is 9 years old. Perhaps that is what you referred to.

Whatever... was just trying to black out the part about a certain murder later in the film in case it spoiled it for some viewer.

Auf wiedersehen :)

Great, now even here a double decker (double post).
And that cute smiley as a doublet also. :)

Yah, as gioconda91423 you tried to edit a post of gioconda.
That doesn't work.


Gute Nacht 🌙


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gioconda91423 (Wed Aug 31 2016 18:07:09)
Post Edited: Wed Aug 31 2016 18:08:53


your comments have zero to do w/movie

just your sad ego

please go away

danke

It's sad, you deleted all your posts in this nest.
Too sad you cannot edit and spoiler me.

Guten Morgen!



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QUOTE:
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"P.S. For French film buffs: I have seen interviews with actors who say Mr. Delon's romantic image is a facade, and paint him as somewhat of a brute. They are quoted that his beauty masked a dark personality, possibly a result of his tough childhood. Sounds like Ripley may have been a bit of typecasting."
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^^^Hmmm..... Can you post the quotes and by whom that say this of Delon? I've read an excerpt from Robert evans decribing him as being physically very tough that somewhat fits into your narrative.

Also, his Corsican background and associations with the mafia seems to attest to this as well.

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It was beautifully filmed. And, the colors still look fresh and vibrant even today, some 55 years later. In fact I had a hard time believing this was filmed that long ago!

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so sunny! 



🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃

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The cinematography is breathtaking. People made fun of Delon's looks? His eyes are the same color as the ocean in this film. The DP photographed Delon at his youthful peak. He's so beautiful, it's ridiculous.

I get the feeling they weren't making fun of his looks for being "bad", but rather making fun of his pretty boy appearance. I just watched the film earlier and he was breathtakingly attractive.

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I saw it last night and it blew me away. The colors! Digital cinematography really ruined cinema.

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