MovieChat Forums > A Streetcar Named Desire (1951) Discussion > Different generations understand this mo...

Different generations understand this movie in another way...


I noticed that in almost every reference they make about this movie they depict Stanley as the villain, and Blanche just as a disturbed -but innocent- woman. However, in my opinion Stanley was just trying to protect his happyness I guess... afterall, he did notice Blanche was not a good person to begin with. Of course, it doesnt justify the violence, but still, for me Blanche seemed to be the real villain, manipulating everyone around and truthfully not caring about people around her, even her sister.

It might sound a little nasty, but I guess it is because in previous generations old movies were directed at the upper class, so it was easier to identify the ignorant poor immigrant as the villain. And well, to the people of my age I have talk about it at least, they seemed to agree with me... I guess we are not that biased when we watch movies now... dont you think?

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EL GATO

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[deleted]

Well... one of the main aspects of Hollywood's golden age movies is that they are centered around characters from the upper-middle or upper class. Why else would we see the females changing outfits and haircuts so often between scenes? And everyone always dressed formal, even if it wasnt really necessary...

We almost never see the stories about working class people or rural families... and even less about bums, prostitutes, drug addicts, etc, etc.

And well, I can assume all this is because it was directed at the upper class... or at least at the middle-upper...

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EL GATO

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I would disagree.When the play first came out,and then the movie,alot of people sided with Stanley as well,just do some research on the response from the critics back then and you will see.This did not make Tennessee Williams too happy either,as he had intended that the audience sympathize with both characters.He never considered either one of the characters as hero or villain.

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Good, because I empathise with both Blanche and Stanley - the extreme forms of femininity and masculinity, which we all carry in us albeit in various degrees.

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Very insightful!


"Mr Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news at once."

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Very insightful indeed! I love this movie!

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All movies about rich people were directed at rich people? Okay then. According to your logic all war movies were directed at soldiers, all gangster movies were directed at gangsters, all period movies were directed at old people, all musicals were directed at singers and dancers. Nobody would ever want to see a movie that wasn't about the environment that they lived in.

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I think that's kind of a narrow interpretation of "my logic", haha. But I stay firm on my point. People in general have a tendency to appreciate stuff they can identify with or stuff they wish they could identify with.

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EL GATO

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Well, the lower class wish they could identify with the upper class. Which is why people follow the lives of celebrities so closely, and like to look at fancy things that they can't afford. Especially during the 30s and 40s, people wanted to escape their everyday lives, not be reminded of them. Lots of movies back then were made for that reason.

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Definitely true, at least for some groups of society. How else would garbage like Keeping up wiht the Kardashians stay on the air?

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>> We almost never see the stories about working class people or rural families... and even less about bums, prostitutes, drug addicts, etc, etc.

You are not looking them ... the old movies were really great. Particularly the pre-code movies. Lots of real life situations and no censorship until later. Amazing movies, better than today.

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"We almost never see the stories about working class people or rural families... and even less about bums, prostitutes, drug addicts, etc, etc."

Ridiculous. Literally thousands of "golden age" movies were about poor or lower-class people, rural people, criminals, laborers, bums, women of ill repute, social outcasts, etc. Films centered on upper-class people with white telephones and a new gown for every scene were a minority of the output of that period.

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In my opinion it is depended on how Stella is portrayed by the actress playing her. There is actually an argument as to who played a better Blanche and made her sympathetic. Brando stated this in his autobiography that he believed that Leigh was a better Blanche than Jessica Tandy who was on the original Broadway production of A Streetcar with him. However, you have Kazan who preferred Tandy's version of Blanche and believed she made the character more sympathetic and that Leigh's made it easier to cause confusion as to who the villain was. In Kazan's view there should not be an argument as to who was the bad guy and with Leigh's version (he believed) caused doubt. Another variable that one should consider is the factor of the working class and upper class while watching the film Blanche had a superiority complex when it came to her lineage which can rub the audience the wrong way considering that many people are not upper class.

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Fairyangel has it right. Older movies weren't made about the upper classes so that the upper classes could enjoy them, they were made for working class people to escape from their day-to-day reality. This is particularly true of movies made during the great depression- it's almost all escapist fare. The reason that more movies nowadays are made about poor people, drug addicts, etc. is that society is much more affluent today. People not only don't feel the need to escape as much, but many of them feel guilty about the quality of their lives, and therefore, want to empathize with those who are worse off.

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Today, movies are made strictly to make money. Pure and simple. Those who aren't in it for the money...guess what? They don't make any and neither do the pictures.

As for the generational understanding of this film, there has to be a gap. The movie has held up all this time because of the artistry that is so prevalent throughout it; the acting, direction, and of course Williams' writing. Every generation will find something to relate to or separate from with this film and that's what makes it timeless. That's what makes it great. It has resonated for all these years and will continue to do so. There are things this film touches on that as long as there is a human nature will always be relevant regardless of the generation you occupy.



"Burn, Hollywood, Burn!"- from the incomparable album "Fear of a Black Planet" by Public Enemy.

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[deleted]

"Today, movies are made strictly to make money."
One of the worst generalizations I've ever read.

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Here's a chance to sample Tandy. She seems to me to lack the innate flair for the language that made Blanche as fascinating as Leigh did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpjP-ZKDvg&feature=channel_video_t itle

I think no one speaks for an entire generation.
It's all about the spectator's sensitivity.
People have either always loved Stanley or hated him. He's a jerk-he's a rapist and a bigger liar than Blanche, or he's funny, earthy and reacting out of the disruption to his life.

However---in any case, Blanche is not sympathetic to people because of superficialities like class and education, but because of her enormous self-punishment and guilt.

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Although he is not a likeable character, I was on Stanley's side. Blanche was manipulating her way through the narrative but Stanley was wise enough to see her true self. I felt Stanley was made to be the villian in the final scene by luring Blanche to the psychiatrists but I had the opposite reaction. I feel Stanley was right in sending Blanche away, even if it caused a rift between himself and Stella.

Besides from this another member on this thread has referred to Stanley and Blanche as being extreme forms of masculinity and femininity. It makes it sound like there was a battle between masculinity and femininity. However it was one sided by the dominant masculinity not only from Stanley but from minor characters, such as the male neighbour who lived upstairs. If anything A Streetcar Named Desire is about human emotion, our wants, needs and desires.

"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".

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I can understand sympathizying with Stanley up to a point(I do so myself)but after Stan rapes Blanche?Yikes.

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I'm with you. My sympathy for Stanley ended when he raped Blanche.

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My sympathy for Stanley ended when dude put hands on his pregnant wife.

Draw close to Jehovah, and He will draw close to you!

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Thanks for the link to Tandy's audio. She may not have been much older than Vivien Leigh when she did the role but she sounds much older and therefore too old for the role (at least on film).

Blanche's main character fault is her narcissism. One wonders what her parents were like.



The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

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I don't like black and white movies, a movie is there to show both sides of any issue and can do it direct to the audience. If there is one thing movie and TV today does well ... and maybe even too well, it is to shift back and forth between different points of view and moral aspects. Movies like James Bond are silly with their absolute super-villains.

The issue was who was cruel from a position of strength, and anyone who doesn't get that I don't really know what they are thinking. Stanley was not a "big" man, he was petty and small. Blanche was broken a long time ago and all she had were her delusions, and Stanley took delight in stripping her of them.

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I could not agree more with you Jaguarete! Blanche's character disturbed me so much that I could not finish watching the movie. Every word, every gesture, every insinuation of hers, reminded only the worst of human nature, making me feel about Blanche, as if she was some kind of a demon, monumentally self centered, hypnotized by urges and matterialism, against anything spiritual and ignoring all about what Love might be.

Her character is a disgrace and totally repulsed me, but I understand, this is also because of certain personal issues of mine as well. Nevertheless, what amazed me most in hers, was that I could not find any positive trait in her character, one that could balance even just a bit, the hellish style of hers.

As for us, watchers of this era, I.M.H.O. we might also seem biased as well, towards future generations. I believe we are taught to NOT be free, but to live under the impression/illusion of freedom. I feel as if, while we free ourselves from certain stereotypes, we enter into new ones, in different areas. But this is all just about the eternal struggle between Matter and Spirit. In my case, I think only God enlighten us and lifts all deception from our senses, then again, how close are we to God? (and I am not speaking from an ethical point of view but rather from a technical one)

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[deleted]

Although hitting women is not the answer, stella perpetuates it in the story by showing brando how she's turned on by it afterwards, which keeps his violent cycle going. So you can't really blame stanley so much for how he acts, as it's on sexual levels what stella desires.

I thought he was a real straight forward smart and honest guy too. He didn't want to kick blanche out for no reason, he knew she was bad news from information and the way she kept a facade on at all times. I hate her for that and am glad brando wen

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I've seen this film a number of times. I've also seen the play upon which it was based. I've always hated Stanley Kowalski for the beer-swilling, sexist bully he is. Still, somehow over the decades I've begun to see this story in a different light and now, while I still find him detestable on many levels, I've come to see his world as it may appear to Stanley himself. Consider:

Stanley's reactions to Blanche are so extreme and so hurtful that it's difficult to see he does have a point of view. We don't agree with it because Stanley himself is so disagreeable and there is no excuse or justification whatsoever for his ultimate brutalization of her. I DO NOT EXCUSE THE RAPE. THERE IS NEVER, EVER ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR RAPE. However, Stanley rightly perceives Blanche as a threat to the home he's established with Stella. She IS a threat. He can't come home from his job and relax. He can't have prvacy with his wife. He can't even wash off the sweat of the day in the brutal heat of a Louisiana summer. The home he has worked to establish has been taken over by what his crude researches reveal is, in fact, among other things, a child molester! She not only tries to tell him how to live in his own home, tries to redecorate it in her own style, attempts to draw his wife away from him, criticses his job, his beliefs and his background--she also seduces underage boys!

In our modern world we have zero tolerance for a teacher who, like Blanche, abuses her/his position regarding a student. Why would we condemn Stanley for calling her out as soon as he learns about it? Why wouldn't he want to protect his best friend from getting involved with a mentally unbalanced, promiscous, predatory woman with delusions of grandeur, an inability to discern truth from fantasy; a former teacher with a taste for 17 year old students? What would we say about a MAN who did what Stella has done?

In the end we don't hate Stanley for exposing Blanche. We hate Stanley because of how he goes about it. We hate him for the violence inherent in him and his inability to express himself in any form outside that violence. In a more refined personality we would applaud him for nobly defending those he loves against a very real threat.

And maybe we hate him for something in him that we see in ourselves?

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DannyJane,I very much agree with your post,but calling Blanche a "child molester" is a bit out there,no?The student she slept with was 17 years old, definetly not a child anymore,and in most states it wouldnt even be considered statutory rape (legal age is usually 16).

Not that Im excusing Blanche for what she did,it was very very wrong (especially because he was her student),but you could mislead someone that never saw the movie or play before.

About Stanley,I used to loathe him with passion,but then I realized just how utterly insecure he was. He had such an inferiority complex about his background that drove him to destroy anything that didnt make him feel like the man he wanted to be.Deep down,I dont think he was as afraid of loosing his family as he was afraid that all those things that Blanche said and thought about him could be true.He wanted to remain king of his castle, and in the end,he realized the only way that could happen was to bring Blanche down with the rape.

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Don't think so. I don't think Stanley was capable of reasoning on that level. His was strictly a visceral reaction. He was striking out in the most devastating way possible against the threat he perceived to his home and his absolute authority in it.

Just the same, I ask again what would we think of a male teacher who seduced a 17 year old female student and why would it be different from what Blanche did?

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The perception is different because most men of the day would look at the female teacher situation as "Hey, that's my boy becoming a man." That same man would regard his (allegedly) virginal daughter as his property and call the male teacher a rapist.

In either scenario the teacher is violating an ethics code that also applies to college professors despite college students being adults in the legal sense of the word.



The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

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[deleted]

You folks really have to stop imagining what people you don't know would think.

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Don't think so. I don't think Stanley was capable of reasoning on that level. His was strictly a visceral reaction. He was striking out in the most devastating way possible against the threat he perceived to his home and his absolute authority in it.

Just the same, I ask again what would we think of a male teacher who seduced a 17 year old female student and why would it be different from what Blanche did?




Oh,I agree that Stanley's was a visceral reaction, he didn't actually think "Hey,I want to be back on top, let's see,how can I do this? Raping Blanche ought to do it!" He just wasnt capable of that form of racionalization.
It was instinctual.But I believe what triggered his reaction was his insecurity within himself, and not so much the fear of loosing his family (allthough there was some of that too,of course)


What makes you think I think it would be different if the teacher was a man? Because I don't, and I dont see how you got that.Both acts would be wrong and stupid, and in both cases they should have their teaching licenses revoked, but neither would be "child molesters" as you put it.

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I agree. Stanley was a fairly down-to-earth guy who didnt put up with bs and wanted to protect his friends, but he was also an abusive person who used violence to get his point across. He meant well for the most part, but ultimately his poor methods outweighed any good that he intended.

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Stanley was a fairly down-to-earth guy who didnt put up with bs and wanted to protect his friends,


I seriously doubt his intentions were made with goodwill in anyway shape or form- he saw it as the best way to get back at Blanche and send her packing. Using "friendship" as an excuse was just that- a convenient excuse.

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Stanley is Trump picking on Rosey O'Donnell, he has brought out the bully in some of the audience members. That is really good writing.

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I'm 16 years old, just watched this movie and I think the same way as you were.

At first I hadn't taught that Blanche is a villain because Stanley trespass her stuff, that makes me feel like he is a villain.
But after that, Blanche had talked to much and also frustrated everybody else.

manipulating everyone around and truthfully not caring about people around her, even her sister.
That's exactly what I taught.

I also taught that she would be a lunatic person and when I saw the end of this movie, she really was.

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I'm in my late 20s and would have to respectfully disagree with the OP's take on the fact that current generations see a role reversal in who the villain is of the piece.

I played Blanche in a small production of Streetcar some years back (yes, I realize I was technically too young for the role but I believe I pulled it off!) so maybe I have a deeper understanding of Tennessee Williams' original intentions for the character from my study of the the play, or maybe I hold greater sympathies toward Blanche as I had to play her to the best of my ability.

Blanche was by no means perfect, but we are meant to feel sympathetic toward her. We are meant to believe that Blanche only prostituted herself in order to save Belle Rive, her childhood, Southern Aristocratic home. In addition, she hadn't had the best/ easiest of lives, especially with her diabolical marriage as a girl. When we meet her in Streetcar, she's in her 30s, and she realizes her beauty (one of the few things she had left) is fading, as is her sanity due to the emotional hardships she's had to endure.

Stanley, on the other hand, is obviously working class and realizes he is "beneath" the social station that Blanche and Stella had been raised into. Although his relationship with Stella may have been better before Blanche arrived, it's inferred from his drunken rampages, that this is something Stella is bitterly accustomed to. If he *really* cared about Stella's happiness, as the OP inferred, he would have kept his alcohol addiction and violent temper under control to the best of his abilities.

Additionally, how can we forgive Stanley raping his sister in law, while his own wife was in hospital for the birth of their fist child? Although we are lead to believe that this too was an alcohol-induced incident, this is further proof of Stanley's lack of moral fiber, ethics, and proof that he is, and always will be, the villain of the piece. Being born into the lower, working classes, is no excuse for this kind of violent, deviant behavior.

I agree that Blanche was manipulative, but don't agree that she was purposefully so. With regards to her 'lies' to Mitch for instance, it seemed to me that she was desperate for a fresh start, desperate for somebody to love her. She wanted to wipe out the last 10+ years of her life, and subconsciously resorted emotionally to the young girl she was during or before her first marriage, before her first husband's suicide and before her problems started escalating. She didn't set out to harm Mitch, but she wanted a serious chance with him. She knew that any respectable man wouldn't give her the time of day if they knew what she'd really been through, and what she'd really done.

Anyway, that's just my take on the situation. I could never feel sympathy for Stanley no matter what way I look at the film or the play. Blanche was never emotionally or mentally stable, but it hardly makes her the villain of the piece.

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I believe we all have the potential to be violent. If anyone gets constantly pushed, they would react at some point.

Stanley was indeed a very questionable character, but his violence might have never surfaced so much if it wasn't for Blanche. I don't justify his actions... but Blanche really crossed the line at some points. She was quite ungrateful, considering Stanley and Stella were really making the effort to make her comfortable.

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"How come even in my fantasies everyone's a jerk?"

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Not trying to stick up for Blanche, because she wasn't perfect, but Stanley struck me as insecure, and used violence and dominance to deal with it.

He thought Blanche threatened his relationship with his wife. Although he loathed Blanche, he had a deep-rooted inferiority complex and felt he had to prove something.

In many ways, he was a child who never grew up.

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I don't justify his actions...


Are you blind? What do you think this is:

but Blanche really crossed the line at some points. She was quite ungrateful, considering Stanley and Stella were really making the effort to make her comfortable.


but his violence might have never surfaced so much if it wasn't for Blanche.


Justifying's Stanley's subhuman brutishness is precisely what you are doing!

Just as Stanley supposedly called out Blanche for what she is, she also called him out for what he is- a "common" relic of the stone-age, thinking of himself as "king" who rules over his home and wife. He beats his wife and rapes his sister-in-law for threatening his cozy existence.

Jesus, it's because of people like you and your preference for no good scum like Stanley that his kind continue to flourish while the Blanches are reduced to what they are.

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> but his violence might have never surfaced so much if it wasn't for Blanche.

It is plain in the movie that bullying his wife was chronic, even before Blanche arrived.

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Hm. I felt like there was no villain. It rather showed how humans are and managed to show different characters with Blanche in the center of it all. I don't understand how one could speak of a villain in this movie.

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Neither Blanche (emotionally broken and preying on teenagers) or Stanley (drunken and violent) were very relatable characters to me. However, I still sympathize more with Stella. She is looking for a crutch and an escape when she comes to see her sister admittedly, but when she finds her married to the kind of man who comes home drunk and beats his pregnant wife, then demands sex, I kind of felt her disgust was justified. Sure, Stanley felt threatened by her attempting to change his married life but his married life kind of needed to be changed. I felt no sympathy for his resistance. Raping Stella was just icing on the proverbial cake of awfulness that his character embodied.

I will agree that there was no real villain, but there were also no heroes.

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Critics often interpret Stanley as a metaphor for industrial America, overpowering and destroying the innocence of the romantic southern era that Blanche represents.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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I assumed when I read the title you were going to take the opposite stance about previous generations siding more with Stanley than current ones.

Women's rights have definitely changed a lot since this was made. If you watch other older movies like the early 007 films and the Quiet Man, most of Stanley's actions were just business as usual in the average home. Beating your wife was acceptable back then under many circumstances. Obviously that kind of abuse is not tolerated today, and it makes Stanley a much more violent character when viewed through a modern lens.

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Beating your wife was acceptable back then under many circumstances.


Did we watch the same movie? Even in the movie, it wasn't acceptable for Stanley to be beating his pregnant wife! Even the characters in the movie said so!

Obviously that kind of abuse is not tolerated today, and it makes Stanley a much more violent character when viewed through a modern lens.


Not just through the "modern" lens, through any lens! Williams never intended for Stanley to be a Gary Cooperish "every man" prototype!

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Yep ... people here trying to make Stanley the hero probably voted for Trump and are trying to mindfuck the country with BS

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