Before Laura left to go to the country, she called Waldo and told him where she was going....so if he knew she wasn't home why would he go there at all? And he would have no reason to shoot at all!
shareCorrect . . . so it's up to you to now figure out who killed Diane Redfern . . .
shareI think that he probably assumed that she was lying to him so that she could have a rendez-vous with another man.
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
Saw the lights on as he told Dana Andrews in a prior scene.
The time he came by when Dana Andrews was in Laura's apartment alone he mentioned it on that occasion.
Before Laura left to go to the country, she called Waldo and told him where she was going....so if he knew she wasn't home why would he go there at all?
I agree with Gubbio that no matter what Laura told him, he would check on her.
I haven't watched Laura in a while, but as I recall, Waldo gave her the clock (after her death, he said he only lent it to her...he had another one, just like it). Could he have forgotten the shotgun was in the clock, and then, after he remembered, gone there to shoot her with it?
"No, I don't like to cook, but I have a chicken in the icebox, and you're eating it."
Could he have forgotten the shotgun was in the clock, and then, after he remembered, gone there to shoot her with it?
But, Diane was shot when she opened the door. He did not enter the foyer, retrieve the gun, and then use it.
You're absolutely right, Gubbio...I think I need to watch again when I get home, or have a drink...or both!
"No, I don't like to cook, but I have a chicken in the icebox, and you're eating it."
or have a drink..
I guess soembody should add -- SPOILERS!
This is a plot problem, in several respects.
Of course, it's possible Waldo could have concealed a shotgun somehow -- beneath his coat, in a box, whatever -- and it's also possible he didn't walk over to Laura's but took a cab, which would lessen the risks of being seen with the gun.
But then why go into the apartment after shooting Laura to hide it in the clock? Why didn't he just take it with him? If he got it there he could certainly have gotten it out.
And, why kill her at all? Or, put another way, why stop with "Laura" (actually Diane Redfern)?
Laura said she was going out of town. Waldo went to the apartment (I agree, out of his usual obsessive jealousy), saw the light, and assumed she was lying. But did he know "Laura" was with a man -- i.e., Carpenter? There's no indication he saw a man with her. But once he shot Diane/"Laura", he went into the apartment to stash the gun. Shelby was panicked, but why didn't he see or hear Waldo, and vice-versa? It would have taken Waldo at least 30 seconds to hide the gun. Neither man saw or heard any sign that the other was there? And if Waldo did think someone was there, why not look for and kill him too?
Now, consider this: it's true Waldo had once seen Laura with Jacoby the painter through the window. But he didn't have a shotgun with him then -- he simply ridiculed Jacoby out of Laura's life. Why go with a gun this time? Especially since he had no particular reason to think Laura hadn't gone away. And from what Laura had told him he had every reason to believe she was dumping Carpenter. Things seemed to be going his way. Taking a shotgun with him seems premature, to say the least.
One last thing. In telling McPherson about that night, Shelby says of the shotgun blast, "It was an awful explosion." Of course, which may be why Waldo took the time to hide the gun in the clock, so it wouldn't be found on him if the cops showed up. But if it was that loud neighbors would surely have heard the blast and either looked out to see what was happening, or called the police.
Yes, by going into the apartment to hide the gun in the clock, Waldo was avoiding being caught with it (or having it in his apartment when the detectives came to question him). That's fine. But the delay in leaving made it more likely he'd be seen by the neighbors as they came out to look. (Or by Shelby, if he came out of the bedroom in time.) Granted, it's highly unlikely that the police would get there quickly enough to actually catch Waldo fleeing the scene, but he was certainly taking a big risk of being seen and identified, or at least described. Since the cops got onto Waldo's relationship with Laura right away, even an approximate description would have been enough to nail him.
Using a simple handgun would have worked much better. Easy to bring and get away with. As for being detected, Waldo could have simply tossed it into the East River -- the shotgun too, come to that. He would have had time to get away from Laura's place and dispose of any gun. Hiding it at the crime scene, after all, does carry some risk.
Anyway, some plot difficulties in this generally terrific movie.
Oh, I think that Shelby might have been too terrified to run out of the room immediately to see what had happened. He must have suspected that some shooting had occurred and he probably chose to wait until the gunman was gone. Staying in the bedroom for a little while would have been the safest thing for him to do. Since Diane didn't return right away, he probably would have suspected that she had been murdered.
The business about being seen with the gun was a plot hole for sure. The cab driver would have seen it for sure. If he walked or took the bus, he would have been seen as well.
No, he didn't have a shotgun when Laura was with Jacoby. I think that he didn't see Jacoby or the other men as a threat. Shelby was a different story, even though Laura had doubts about him. Besides, he thought that Laura had lied to him. She said that she was going away for the weekend and he didn't believe her. That's why I think he decided to murder her. He went prepared to her home. Her lights were on the night she was supposed to be away. Waldo rang the doorbell and a woman in a negligee answered the door. I think that he was expecting to find Laura having an affair with Shelby at her home, and he didn't think that it might have been another woman at the house.
So the neighbors didn't hear the gunshot. That's typical of a lot of mysteries. Someone gets shot and no one seems to hear it.
The business of Waldo hiding the shotgun in the clock is a bit odd, but on the other hand, I think he picked a hiding spot which the cops wouldn't even think of. Besides, he had to hide it because getting it to her home in the first place was probably a nuisance for him.
Just my humble opinion.... ξΉ
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
Yes, but if Waldo was enraged by seeing her in a nightgown then why not kill the man she was with? He had to assume someone else was there. Otherwise why kill "Laura"? Because she was there alone?
The whole point is that he really had no reason to go there "prepared" on this night as compared with any other. It simply makes no sense.
Shelby "must have suspected" that a shooting had occurred? Boy, is that cautious understatement! Obviously he realized what it was. I agree, he was certainly too terrorized to go out right away to see what had happened. But he should have been able to hear Waldo doing something (opening the clock and stashing the gun) and been able to tell McPherson about it later on. It's called a "clue".
As for taking the gun there and what he did or could have done with it later, well, that's the crux of the thread. He could have gotten it there (and away) without being seen, but he's multiplying his risks needlessly...and inexplicably.
Because his feeling was that if he couldn't have her, no one else should. He wasn't interested in doing away with the guy she was supposedly sleeping with. He just wanted HER dead.
The cop had some trouble getting that clock opened, but Waldo probably had a better idea of how to open it quickly. It had been his, after all. He must have been quick at opening it, stashing the rifle, closing it, and leaving. If Shelby heard him, he would have been too scared to come out of the room because, for all he knew, he could be shot down as well. He had no choice but to wait until it was completely quiet.
I agree with you about the neighbors, but that's something that seems to be overlooked in a lot of mysteries/thrillers. The neighbors will hear the noise only if the authors want them to hear the noise. Just like the amount of blood spilled after a shooting/stabbing in these stories depends on what the author wants.
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
Look closer at the gun. It's not the hunting shotgun shown at the cabin, but a coach gun, with rather short (they looked maybe illegally short) barrels, and maybe a smaller stock. You can totally hide one of those under a coat.
Now... on the hot day? Not so much. I mean, you can, but everyone will wonder why you are wearing a coat or remember that for sure.
And it is still not something you carry too casually. Deliberate murderous intent there. And therefore a weird choice of the film makers. And a very deliberate one, as they chat about buckshot several times, and had to make sure the victim was not recognized. I don't put it all together, but have to believe the writer (et al) had some idea what happened.
I agree. It's a great film with great acting, but, one big flaw for me is the procedure of the murder, as presented in the film. It all seems highly implausible.
The whole idea of Lydecker lugging a rather bulky shotgun with him to the murder scene (instead of a more portable handgun), having to interrupt a quick getaway by taking the time to enter the apartment and open the clock case to hide the shotgun, managing to not be seen inside the apartment by Shelby who was just in the other room, managing to flee the scene without being seen by any curious neighbors who would have been aroused by the noise of the shotgun blast... And why hide the shotgun at all? He could have tucked it inside an overcoat to conceal it, then gone and tossed it in the East River as you say.
That scenario requires a huge amount of suspension of disbelief!
In a nutshell, Z-R, and exactly right.
share"managing to not be seen inside the apartment by Shelby who was just in the other room, managing to flee the scene without being seen by any curious neighbors who would have been aroused by the noise of the shotgun blast"
In the movie, the detective explains his theory of what happened. Lydecker heard Shelby moving about in the other room through the front door, and hid in the stairwell until Shelby left the apartment.
As for the neighbours, consider the following points ...
- The apartments in the building were clearly huge. On the landing for Laura's apartment, we saw that there were only two doors. One was a single door for the servant's / maid's entrance. The other was the main double door for the owner / tenant. So there were no other neighbours on Laura's floor.
- How many apartments were in the building? I won't claim to know, but her building was a low rise not a high rise or skyscraper. She may have had only one or two other families living in her building, and they would have had to be on other floors.
- If Laura's apartment was on the first level, no one would have seen Lydecker leave had he left right away. Lydecker could have been out the front door before anyone on the second or third level came down the staircase to investigate. (Not saying this is what happened, as I assume the detective's theory was correct about Lydecker hiding instead of fleeing.)
- Finally, in that era, didn't middle to upper class New Yorkers tend to spend hot summer weekends out of town at their cottages? (This is something I've heard and read about.) If Laura's small number of neighbours were away the night of the murder, that could explain why. Remember, Waldo described the Sunday of the weekend Laura died as the hottest he could remember. Ergo, neighbours likely would have been out of the city the night of the murder if they had that option.
I guess soembody (sic) should add -- SPOILERS!
That's a dopey comment, Gubbio. It was a joke -- obviously, since the thread was a page long already and the movie is 71 years old. There's nothing about it that could remotely be called a "whine". Get real.
And if you quote someone, you're not supposed to add words to the alleged quote. (Sic.)
That's an admonition, not a whine.
ξ¦
I've seen this film over 30 times. It's one of my faves. Certainly I'm not whining about it. I just addressed the concerns which you had about it. I've seen/read enough classic mysteries to accept the fact that most of them are extremely far-fetched. That's what makes them so great. I wasn't bothered by the fact that Waldo's rifle could have been seen by others. In fact, I didn't even think about that until I read this thread. And I've always assumed that he was just able to hide that rifle very quickly in that clock. It took the cop a little bit of time to get it open, but Waldo must have been faster at it. Doesn't matter. The movie is still great in my opinion.
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
That's a dopey comment, Gubbio. It was a joke -- obviously, since the thread was a page long already and the movie is 71 years old. There's nothing about it that could remotely be called a "whine". Get real.
Well, maybe you shouldn't have been expected to know it was a joke, or at least not serious, Gubbio.
But in my experience most of the people who as you say get all whiny or bent out of shape about "spoilers" really do engage in a rant, like: Next time say spoilers!, or go sarcastic (Thanks for letting us know there are spoilers!).
Like you, I do find it a bit odd that people are worried about spoilers for a decades-old movie. True, some people haven't seen some things, and you want to be polite, but then they should be careful what thread they click on to.
So your "rant" has merit!
Since this is a board for the movie Laura, spoiler warnings aren't necessary. If I chose to discuss this film on one of the general movie boards (like the CFB or Film General), then I'd be careful about spoilers. On this board, everyone should be able to discuss the film without worrying about spoiling it for others. After all, this board is for discussion of the film (ie, for those who have seen the movie).
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
After all, this board is for discussion of the film (ie, for those who have seen the movie).
I remember seeing on a board for a movie (I forget which movie now) where someone was really having a tantrum because a few spoilers had been included in the thread. A few folks were trying to explain to him that spoilers are allowed on the individual movie boards, but this guy wasn't getting it. I was going to say a few things myself there, but then I noticed that the posts were over a year old, so I decided not to bother. I can't remember which movie. It's a board which I visited once, posted once or twice there, and didn't return to it...or at least, I'm pretty sure that I didn't post there more than a few times.
I've known hobnob53 on the boards for over 2 years now. He really is a Gentleman of the Boards, with a great sense of humor! ξΉ
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
Well, I'm glad a few people realized I was being a bit facetious with that spoiler thing...which has steered this thread completely off-topic.
I do find having to note spoilers is a pain in the neck, but in the end it's no big deal and most times I don't mind doing it, if I think to. My point here was that by the time I wrote that we were two pages in and the movie was already spoiled for newcomers!
But I disagree that anyone who comes on a film's board necessarily has seen the movie. Generally that's true of course, but I too have run into people throwing a fit because something was given away in a film they haven't seen (or haven't seen all of).
So...what was this big plot error now? ξ
This board is set up for discussion of the movie Laura. If folks haven't seen it, then how can they discuss it? If they haven't seen it but they have a question about it, then they can just start a separate thread and request that people don't provide spoilers.
If a thread is titled "the ending of the movie", then spoilers are to be expected.
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
I've gone onto a few boards of films I haven't seen, not so much to find out the plot as to ask a question about them. Anyway, what's the big deal about saying "spoilers" or not? IMDb has set up procedures and protections for such instances, which presumably wouldn't be necessary if only people who'd seen a film were permitted to post on its board.
Though of course people treading onto a board of a film they haven't seen should assume the risk of being spoiled.
Or are you, of all people, trying to exclude people from a board because of their particular status...in this case, that they haven't seen a movie? Are you saying only people who've seen a film should be allowed on its board? Tsk-tsk.
(Just to be clear, that was facetious.)
On the general movie boards, like the CFB and film general, I'm very careful about including spoiler warnings and such. I have to, since I discuss a lot of whodunits and I don't want to spoil the endings for anyone.
The boards for individual movies are set up for discussion of the films. Therefore, it's assumed that those posting on those boards have either seen the films or they are asking a question about the movies.
I'm not excluding anyone. If they want to read the posts on the boards of films they haven't seen, that's their business. I just hope that they won't cry me a river if they come across spoilers, that's all. I see no reason for including spoiler warnings for the movie Laura on this board. I could do it, of course, but I'm not going to. In fact, I'll say loudly and clearly that WALDO DID IT. ξ¦
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π JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen π
You really should read the book. Waldo has a gun in his cane, and of course, he walks with it everywhere.
I think the gun-in-the-clock was rather clunky on the screenwriters' parts.
ξRoland, that's a lilac bush!ξ©ξ»ξ
Joanna - SPOILERS - That freaking cane must have weighed way more than normal.
shareWhy did they change it? Having the gun in the cane would have been way better and more plausible.
shareFrom his character, he certainly would check on Laura, but not kill her. He might kill her shortly before the marriage, but not 1/2 a week earlier. He rather would try everything that she looses interest in him, plan stategies, ...
So the only thing that makes sense: Waldo knew that it was Diane and wanted to shoot her, so that Laura gets to know that her boyfriend was meeting another girl in her apartment. But then the maid made the mistake identifying her as Laura and Waldo could do nothing but play the game otherwise he would become the main suspect. Carpenter also played the game although he was in the flat as he still wanted to marry Laura (whom he knows to be alive) and wanted to get rid of the attention of him meeting another girl.
Wasn't that Waldo's version?
shareWaldo did not believe her.
When he got to the apartment he assumed she was in there with Shelby.
That was Betrayal, so he killed her.
No he didn't . . . he knew she was out in the country . . . now, try again . . . who killed Diane Redfern? And why?
sharehisgrandmogulhighness, What time to you have to be back at the home? ξ
Sorry, Gubbio, you've been sabotaging this poor hapless board for too long . . . time for everybody to start and think for themselves . . .
Now, let's get back to the question at hand . . . who killed Diane Redfern?
And, no, it wasn't Waldo . . . so who?
Sorry, Gubbio, you've been sabotaging this poor hapless board for too long . . . time for everybody to start and think for themselves . . .
Now, let's get back to the question at hand . . . who killed Diane Redfern?
And, no, it wasn't Waldo . . . so who?
So......nobody. It's fiction.
Nobody killed anybody because they only exist on film.
ξRoland, that's a lilac bush!ξ©ξ»ξ
Maybe he went to Laura's home just to retrieve the gun in her clock. Knowing Laura had gone to the country, he thought that would be a good time to get the gun, then go to Laura's country and kill her, leaving no witnesses and nothing in Laura's home to incriminate him.
shareI just saw this last night.
I vaguely remember someone, maybe Mark, saying that Waldo hid in the stairwell outside the apt. with the shotgun, shot "Laura," then waited 'til Shelby left to stash the gun into the clock, so he wouldn't be caught with it.
If that was Waldo's shotgun, it was the most manly thing about him! Ewww... Those bath scenes!