Either a con man like L. Ron Hubbard or a hypocrite adulterer like Martin Luther King
The only advantage that Jesus has over modern controversial figures is that he happened to exist before modern and effective historiographical methods
In other words, most of what we know about him is just passed down word of mouth with low fidelity to historical accuracy
I think he was either a lunatic, a hypocrite, or a marketing fluke
I don't believe Jesus was god. But I do believe he was a Jewish religious reformer. I don't see why atheists need to get hostile about Christianity. John the Baptist presaged Jesus. So there was already an existing Jewish sect of which Jesus emerged as leader.
Do you also believe Buddha and Confucius were con men? Or do you reserve that for Christians?
Christianity is pretty hostile to atheism. One good turn deserves another (I hope I'm using that saying correctly). But yeah, lump in Buddha and Mohammed (not Confucius because he wasn't historically proven to claim to be a prophet or demigod)
All religious prophets were either con men or under a feverish spell of their own influence
Look me in my face and tell me what God's will is. You wouldn't dare. It takes a real asshole to claim that they know it
I'm an atheist. I have no desire to proselytize. But no, you have not shown that Jesus, Buddha and Confucius were con men.
These men were ethical reformers.
In fact, we have great proof that Jesus was a Jewish reformer. He kicked the money lenders out of the temple, i.e. the loan sharks who used the temple to conduct usury and and oppress the poor.
Agree to disagree. They were all hardcore bullshitters
shareYour assessment is too negative. They lived in a time before science and they were trying to come up with ethical guidelines and theories about the creation of life and the universe.
sharePerhaps. But perhaps that also shields them from rigorous ethical judgment and they get away with what would otherwise be recognized as exploitation. It goes both ways
Or do you know of a lot of infamous recognized charlatans from those times?
There's no reason to believe that Jesus was insincere. As I said, the strongest piece of evidence in his favor was throwing the loan sharks out of the temple. He lived in a time when the corrupt Pharisees dominated Judaism.
shareOnan claims to be an atheist. yet spreads some of the same dumb shit apologetics do.
https://moviechat.org/nm1832670/Jesus-Christ/620483d8eee6360f2e805085/Loves-Killing-KidsBabies?reply=62a979a81eb05864c97d72f1
when called out he tries to change the subject and muddy the waters
Tbh I was just messing with him and everyone else by starting this thread
I do think it's impossible to know the real nature of the historical Jesus's character, but I also think one can't just take it for granted that he was a good man
I don't even care if he is or isn't an atheist. He seems to admire religion, which I get. To me religion is the world's largest cultural and historical fossil. It reveals a lot about how humans have attempted to make sense of things beyond their comprehension
But there is simply no way to make hard claims about holy figures. Those details are lost in time. You can scour the best historical sources and you will still never truly be able to say whether Jesus was a noble reformer, a nutjob, a crook, or just a mascot for a mass social program
umm haven't been following the recent roe v wade news have you? people in the west are hostile people Christians keep trying to shove their religion down everyones throats.
Jesus is critical and fundamental to Christianity. its not a no true Scottsman to say you cant say you don't need or believe in Jesus and also be a Christian.
Confucius taught philosophy. not a religion that claimed to have all the answers it couldn't possibly know
Uh no, abortion has been legal at the federal level for almost 50 years. And it's still legal in most states. Try again.
And most Christian churches have gone on record as supporting abortion rights.
Confucius and Confucianists worshiped The August Personage of Jade, also known as The Dragon King. 🤣 They also advocated foot binding for woman and infanticide for female babies.
yes I gave on example. theres plently. they are a powerful voting block, as the recent court decision showed.
its been a short time and already its banned in many place https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html
also how does this help the poor person making 8$ an hour who cant drive 200 miles out of state and pay for the procedure. try again. amazing for an "atheist" you sure do parrot all the Christian nonsense.
And most Christian churches have gone on record as supporting abortion rights.
Confucius and Confucianists worshiped The August Personage of Jade, also known as The Dragon King. 🤣 They also advocated foot binding for woman and infanticide for female babies
You're barely worth the conversation. And I bet you have a naked poster of Leonardo DiCaprio on your wall. 🤣
Again, most jurisdictions in the U.S. maintain legal abortion. And the U.K., Germany, Canada, Australia, Sweden and most Western "Christian" nations support abortion rights.
I'll take Christianity over Confucianism any day.
Yes, when Confucianism was the major religion of China, foot binding and female newborn infanticide was approved by the Confucian patriarchal priesthood.
Next!
You're barely worth the conversation. And I bet you have a naked poster of Leonardo DiCaprio on your wall. 🤣
Again, most jurisdictions in the U.S. maintain legal abortion.
And the U.K., Germany, Canada, Australia, Sweden and most Western "Christian" nations support abortion rights.
I'll take Christianity over Confucianism any day.
Yes, when Confucianism was the major religion of China, foot binding and female newborn infanticide was approved by the Confucian patriarchal priesthood. so you are comparing a religion 2500 years ago in china to modern Christianity and saying "seeeee look how great it was!!!"
No, I didn't say you're gay. I said only an idiot names himself after Leonardo DiCaprio. Nothing against the guy, but what kind of weak star-worshiping fanboy are you?
Fundamentalist Christians are trying to outlaw abortion. Mainstream Protestants are not. Abortion is legal in 95% of European countries.
The official religion of the United Kingdom is Christianity, with the Church of England being the state church. Abortion is legal.
All the European countries have a long history of Christianity. Abortion is legal in 95% of Europe.
Contemporary Christianity is not against legal abortion, only Fundamentalists are.
If you want to talk about slavery:
What does Confucianism say about slavery?
Confucius — the Thinker Who Stubbornly Defends the System of Slavery
Confucius talked about many "virtues," but he excluded the slaves and other enslaved working people from "virtue." As he saw it, the slaves could only take orders and be enslaved, and could never be allowed to know any truth.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2753/CED1061-193207010225?journalCode=mced19
vs Onan the barbarian LOLLLL. what's that thing about those in glass houses? Actually you did imply it though
And I bet you have a naked poster of Leonardo DiCaprio on your wall. 🤣
Nothing against the guy, but what kind of weak star-worshiping fanboy are you?
Fundamentalist Christians are trying to outlaw abortion. Mainstream Protestants are not. Abortion is legal in 95% of European countries.
Contemporary Christianity is not against legal abortion, only Fundamentalists are.
If you want to talk about slavery:
No, Patrick Swayze, Confucius is the point. No other religion has the system of respecting individual rights and reforming law to protect individual rights. That's why Christians ended slavery in the West before the Confucianists ended it in China. Oh, wait a second, the Confucianists never ended slavery in China. Neither did the Buddhists. The Communists did.
Mickey Rourke, 66% of Americans support abortion rights. Only a minority oppose them, not even 40%.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/06/24/how-americans-really-feel-about-abortion-the-sometimes-surprising-poll-results-as-supreme-court-reportedly-set-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/?sh=7bede7c92f3a
Now suck my dick, Leo.
nope no it wasn't. it was literally my last sentence and a single sentence. but you've latched on to it while avoiding the rest because you are being utterly demolished :)
No other religion has the system of respecting individual rights and reforming law to protect individual rights
That's why Christians ended slavery in the West before the Confucianists ended it in China.
Mickey Rourke, 66% of Americans support abortion rights. Only a minority oppose them, not even 40%.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/06/24/how-americans-really-feel-about-abortion-the-sometimes-surprising-poll-results-as-supreme-court-reportedly-set-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/?sh=7bede7c92f3a
No one actually reads the 4 Gospels.
So, there were 5 differing Jewish Second Temple sects (Sadducees, Essenes, Pharisees, Zealots and Samaritans). Jesus actually hangs out with members of each sect and even takes a few philosophical points from each of them.
Today, this would be like if Jesus hung out with radical republicans, democrats, atheists, catholics, protestants, etc. Which would not make much sense...
So who on earth would write that about Jesus hanging out with all these different sect members? It's quite strange. Indeed, the Gospels have not been well researched/studied by people.