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Having the most iconic heroes was it an hinderence for DC?

posted 7 years ago by CichlidAsh
13 replies | jump to latest

I don't think that anyone would argue that DC has the most iconic superheroes and arguably the best superhero characters between themselves and Marvel. However did this prove to be an advantage for WB/DC over Marvel Studios when it comes down to the DCEU and the MCU movies?.

Marvel was clearly on paper the underdogs when it came down to CBM DC had all the advantages iconic characters, previously highly successful films like Superman I & II, Batman 89 and the Nolan trilogy and the best selling comics. However did this make Marvel work all that more harder at creating what has at least by at least popular critical opinion been better films. Without being able to rely on the strength of the popularity of their characters did if force Marvel to work harder on making their films of the best quality they can? While on the reverse side of the coin is relying on the tradition popularity of their character line up make DC a bit complacent in making the DCEU movies? Were they thinking that having Superman would sell the movie on the iconic status alone in MOS? When that movie did not live up to the box office that WB/DC was expecting did they not examine what made MOS not as well received as they would like it to have been and instead just throw Batman into the mix thinking that that character would just insure the box office they wanted instead of concentrating on fixing the actual flaws that caused MOS to be such a mediocre film in a lot of critics opinions?

To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script and the script -Alfred Hitchcock

[–] JSSTyger 7 years ago

They didn't learn from The Incredible Hulk. People don't want to see the same old stuff. The Iron Man series, Thor, etc were a breath of fresh air and people latched on. Not having Spider-Man was a blessing in disguise for Marvel.

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[–] CichlidAsh 7 years ago

I have to agree JSS having Spider-Man as a character licence may well have made Marvel fall into the same problem that DCEU seems to have done and relied on the popularity of the character to carry the movie instead of having to work on a film that is so good that it makes the character popular. I personally felt that the first Captain America movie is a slip in quality for Marvel and I remember a friend of mine turning around and saying after the movie "is that it, I don't see what all the fuss is about with this Marvel stuff" and I had to agree at that point although I did grow to like Captain America a lot more after Winter Solider. Could the same happen with MOS once MOS 2 comes out? I don't know but it would be great if it did as I kind of liked MOS but I seriously doubt that anything would ever improve BvS or SS which are seriously flawed films in my opinion.

To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script and the script -Alfred Hitchcock

[–] JSSTyger 7 years ago

First Avenger was an impossble task because Captain America was an absolute laugher of a super hero. The fact they made the movie passable was a complete shock. It wasn't fantabulous but I remember walking out of the theater surprised that I just watched a decent movie about Captain America. Marvel deserves praise for that.

Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'...
...That's god damn right.

[–] A-to-ZZZ 7 years ago

I remember walking out of the theater surprised that I just watched a decent movie about Captain America

Me too. The first hour of the movie is actually great. Then it fumbles the ball teribly in the seoncd half, which seemed to be an hour long montage of him fighting nazis.

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[–] OdumC 7 years ago

They had an uphill battle with me because I actively disliked Cap and Thor and both of their films were entertaining and pleasant surprises to me.

While liking Superman, I hated cap's version of the boy scout and Thor was always too pompous for my taste. I think seeing him humbled made him a lot more likable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to Batmeh v Supermeh Yawn of Justice, the "S" now stands for Sidekick

[–] samhmd-7489 7 years ago

That, and Captain America's last attempt at a movie was a 1990 disaster.

[–] shellywebstere 7 years ago

" Were they thinking that having Superman would sell the movie on the iconic status alone in MOS"

They knew the answer to that since 2006. Mos made more money than Superman returns.
I can understand that the movie was division amongst fans and in some countries but it's not true everywhere in the world.

[–] jakubmike 7 years ago

I honestly think that DC is just lazy, if they started with unknowns people would not have build in expectations about characters. let's be honest most people do not read comics, they know Superman from movies and cartoons. Going against this image is like pouring salt into tea, sure it is different but is it liked...not exactly.
If they started with relatively unknown characters like Starfire or Cyborg they would build in anticipation for their big guns. But right now they are like the guy who has one king in his hand and expects to win at poker. Or they could make Wonder Woman first and make her protagonist character who later on meets Superman and Batman. But this constant Bat-wank is bitting them hard.

[–] CichlidAsh 7 years ago

I honestly think that DC is just lazy, if they started with unknowns people would not have build in expectations about characters. let's be honest most people do not read comics, they know Superman from movies and cartoons. Going against this image is like pouring salt into tea, sure it is different but is it liked...not exactly.

I think you are spot on here the vast majority of the potential audience for any CBM don't actually read comics so if you create a film like MOS and Superman is different from what they are expecting then they are most likely going to reject him even if the character they are seeing might be a spot on representation of what the character is in the current comics. People have a preconceived idea of what Superman is and what he should look like, my best friend is a huge Superman fan from the old movies and all the TV shows to the point that she even named her first born after one of the characters yet she refused point blank to watch MOS because changed his costume design and while she might be a bit extreme of a case it does show how set people can be in their ways when it comes to what they expect and will except from a character.

To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script and the script -Alfred Hitchcock

[–] theuserformerlyknownasfrantruff 7 years ago

Having incompetent directors and screenwriters is the main problem the DCEU has. The fact that they have "the most iconic heroes" should, by all means, be an advantage because, even ignoring their considerable fanbases, it means they have a wide variety of stories to choose from. Hell, they even used Dark Knight Returns, widely considered not just the best Batman story but the best mainstream superhero story, on this film and made it fail somehow.

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

I like the D.C. Movies I've seen more than the marvel movies I've seen so it's hard for me to comment. The masses are pretty anti-comic book. Despite them pretending to like comics. When a beautiful actress says she is a dork. No. She isn't. They don't really like superman comics. Or iron man comics. Or wolverine comics. . They like marvel movies because they can pretend to like them. My wife has no interest in comics but she can watch Chris hemsworth flex and jaw with Robert Downey jr. Try to explain to her about the actual stories and her eyes glaze over. If you don't care about the history of krypton I imagine it is not as enjoyable to watch doomsday make his summon into space. If you didn't read all those comics where doomsday literally crushed every super hero one by one, I imagine you don't understand the threat superman is facing here. And if I was a studio exec I would be furious. But I'm a comic fan. And I love Snyder for doing what he did. As I said, I like all the movies, deadpool especially, but I really love the Snyder attention to detail in his two superman films so far. Wonder Woman was just exactly right. So was Batman

[–] actionkamen (23176) 7 years ago

No, I don't think so. Spider-Man is also an iconic character, yet Sam Raimi's Spider-Man was so good it single handedly reinvented superhero movie genre. Also Nolan's Batman, a new take of an established and well loved iconic character. They're good movies with real stories that brought something new to the table.

MoS and BvS, and also Superman Returns does not have anything new to tell. They're just retelling of the standard basic premises of the characters everyone and their mother knows already.

Let's wait how DC handles non-established character in Wonder Woman solo movie. I believe Wonder Woman's origin story is as obscure as Thor or Iron Man for general non comic book fan audiences.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

I think you're right. Batman has had so many films in recent years that he's rather overexposed, and Superman has about 5,000 previous film appearances. I suppose a really good version of either character might have been welcome, but who hasn't seen better incarnations of both?

I would say that they'd have had a better chance of making a good film if they've started with a lesser DC character and do their damdest to make him as memorable as Hugh Jackman's Wolverine, but that would have been much more financially risky than putting Batman and Superman right up front. And it's pretty clear that whoever is behind this film series is more interested in making money than in making good films.