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A Post on Psycho: "And That's Exactly My Point!"

posted 7 years ago by ecarle (14979)
10 replies | jump to latest

ecarle, here.

I'm testing a "crossover post" I made at imdb recently. Let's see if it works here:

A re-visit to something I really like about Psycho:

The Arbogast/Norman sequence splits three ways:

PART ONE: On the porch; Daylight. Arbogast arrives at dusk -- late afternoon light fills the scene -- pulls up in front of the Bates Motel and chats with Norman a bit as a means of introduction:

"Y'know, I've been to so many motels the past few days, my eyes are bleary with neon...but this is the first place that looks like its hiding from the world..."

PART TWO: In the motel office; from dusk til dark. The longest stretch of the sequence is here; Arbogast is going to pepper Norman with friendly questions about his search for the missing Marion Crane, and finally find out she was here...

PART THREE: Back to the porch; dark night. Having determined (in the office) that Marion Crane WAS here, Arbogast will now see Mother in the window and press to meet her. Norman refuses and throws Arbogast off the property.

Three concisely laid out scenes -- with friendly introductions in the first part, the discovery by Arbogast that Marion was here in the second, and the discovery by Arbogast of Mother in the third. And suspense builds all the way.

Notice how when Arbogast is back out on the porch with Norman("Someone is sitting in the window") -- his back is to the Bates House and the darkness behind him, as he confronts Norman. Why, Mother could creep right up behind the detective and knife him. Any moment now she could strike...suspense.

And Arbogast presses the point and gets another victory:

Arbogast: You'd know you were being used. You wouldn't be made a fool of(by Marion) would you?
Norman: But I''m not a fool! And I'm not capable of BEING fooled! Not even by a woman.
Arbogast: Its' not a slur on your manhood. I'm sorry.
Norman: Let's put it this way -- she may have fooled me...but she didn't fool my mother.
Arbogast: (Eyes gleaming in victory) Then your mother met her! Can I meet your mother?

There's a certain perfection to this exchange. How Norman's demeanor changes from amiable to angry; how Arbogast realizes when he has struck gold("Then your mother met her!") HOw the audience realizes that Arbogast is now in mortal danger and how Norman's getting rid of him is actually saving the man's life.
And the verbal AND facial acting of Perkins and Balsam here...it just doesn't get any better.

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That final porch scene is late in the Arbogast/Norman sequence(though they WILL meet again later, on the stairs), but I think I love the earlier moment that Arbogast strikes gold on another point: Marion was here. ...And there is a moment in that seqence in the motel office when the entire scene shifts into overdrive and Hitchcock is right on top of it visually even as his actors sell Joe Stefano's lines with improv-style "incompleteness."

Dusk becomes darkness at the Bates Motel in the office. Now Arbogast is half lit and half in darkness, his large face (with hat) filling the screen as Hitchcock cuts to Norman from a flattering high angle, his full face lit in the dark his look ...sweet. Beautiful in his crewneck sweater.

Norman: No one's been here for a couple of weeks.
...
Norman: Which reminds me (he reaches quickly and flips a switch behind him.)
Arbogast: What's that?
Norman: The light. The sign...we had an old couple here about a week ago who said if the sign hadn't been on, they'd have thought this was an old deserted--
Arbogast: (cutting him off) And THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!
Norman: What?
Arbogast: Here you said that no one had been here for a couple of weeks --
Norman: Yeah--
Arbogast: --and here's an old couple stayed here just a week ago.
Norman:(Defeated) Yeah.
Arbogast: Want to look at the picture again?

This earlier bit matches how Arbogast later figures out "Then your mother met her!" Here it is "And that's exactly my point" leading indirectly TO the point: an old couple was here a week ago. Maybe Marion was here too?

Indeed, once we really think about this, it becomes apparent that the old couple likely turned up either a day before or after Marion. If after...how creepy. Mother wouldn't hurt an old couple...but they stayed at the scene of the crime.

---

[–] misscastaway (1) 7 years ago

ecarle! Thank goodness! Moviechat.org has saved us all! You always wrote such great posts and I cannot believe IMDb would just trash everything so callously.

[–] jmcd2007 (424) 7 years ago

They even shut it down on the evening of February 19th too...ONE DAY earlier than as promised!

Fortunately, however, this website is an EXCELLENT replacement. As I've told others here, I even successfully managed to carry over my IMDb username too!

[–] dt123 (689) 7 years ago

Ha! Just added Psycho to the not-yet-archived list thread. Definitely need it here. One of my favorite boards.

[–] Mr_K_Pratt (11) 7 years ago

ecarle, your posts on Psycho have been fascinating me for years, I'm glad to see the closure of the IMDb message boards won't change that!

[–] telegonus (727) 7 years ago

Now we're back in business, EC. That's a great scene, or rather great scenes, with actors, camera set ups, lighting, everything, sheer perfection. It takes several viewing to truly appreciate the mastery of this now not so unsung classic. We shall continue to be singing its praises for, I hope, a long time.

BTW, isn't this a great site?

It's still early yet, and it's evolving, but I like the way its evolving.

Telegonus

[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

How heartening to hear from everyone here.

Life gives us roadblocks which we can surmount...

Telegonus, it IS a great site, you are a great friend...and it is a great scene, in a movie filled with them. But I think what I like about the Norman/Arbogast sequence is that it went "unsung" for many years given the bigger scenes in the movie...and it is as precise, masterly and intelligent as any other part of the film.

I will add that former director/current film critic Peter Bogdanovich wrote a chapter on Anthony Perkins in a book called "Who the Hell Is in It?" and he singled out the Arbogast/Norman interrogation(with a photo from it) as an unsung great scene in film history.

So maybe its not so unsung after all?

Welcome, everyone!

[–] telegonus (727) 7 years ago

Maybe so, EC, and thank you for the kinds words. Re Bogdanovich. Do you know the year his book was published? We've been going over the Norman-Arbogast exchange business for some time. If the book came out within the last roughly five years I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of Hollywood people read the IMDB message boards, and some occasionally contributed. That Bogdanovich is older makes it seem more likely. It's not like he's all that busy a man these days.

It would be good to know the time frame of those Norman-Arbo encounters. It's December, and I don't know about daylight savings time in the western states, nor the time of day Arbo arrives at the Bates motel. It doesn't feel like December to me, but then this is California. Maybe this is part of the genius of Psycho,--that it takes the viewer out of normal time and space as we know it, making the viewer aware that it is indeed a movie--which puts the scenes in another place entirely: like real life, but not real life.

[–] 9 (1235) 7 years ago

[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

I'm not ecarle but that book is a classic. Internet tells me it was published in 2004. Its companion is Who The Devil Made it (1997) which is focused on directors.

--

All correct. The first book was interviews with directors(including Hitchcock) , the second book was a mix of interviews(when Bogdanovich could interview them) or just articles about them(as with Marilyn Monroe.)

In the directors interview book, Bogdo got this incisive quote from Hitchocck about Anthony Perkins and Martin Balsam on Psycho:

Bogdanovich: I heard from Anthony Perkins that it was his idea to eat the candy corn, and that you encouraged him always to come up with things.
Hitchcock: Yes. And Martin Balsam , too. I said "Fellows, you have a lot to do together in this scene. Now why don't you both go in a corner and have a go? After all, there are limits. You can't direct good actors in a scene that should come naturally -- hesitancies and so on. No, people like Tony and Balsam are intelligent men and you leave them to it."

---

I note that Hitchcock says "people like Tony and Balsam are intelligent men." "Tony" was a star, and a friend. "Balsam" was a character actor, and likely not a friend. BUT Hitchcock singled Balsam out for praise, pretty rare for Hitchcock. And in 1962, Hitchocock flew Martin Balsam out from New York to Hollywood to do the screen test dialogues with Tippi Hedren.

----

Bogdanovich lifted Hitchcock quotes from "Who the Devil Made It?"(an old Howard Hawks quote) and put them into his Anthony Perkins artile in "Who the Hell's In It?"

and then Bogdo wrote this about the Arbogast/Norman scene:

"(The Perkins/Balsam contributions) translates to mean that the totally real, seemingly spontaneous, absolutely perfect interaction between the two actors came out of those rehearsals together and that Hitchcock just shot it -- from all the correct angles."

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A 2004 publication date strikes me as a bit before our discussions on imdb, but I'm not sure. In any event, "great minds think alike."

PS. The fascinating interview in "Who the Hell's In it?" is with Jerry Lewis. It goes on and on and on. A near-broke Bogdanovich and his first wife rather "attached themselves" to Lewis when they first came to LA and Bogdo wrote movie magazine profiles. Jerry gave them one of his cars and privileges to watch the Paramount library at the studio(which was revoked by the studio for overuse.) In exchange, Bogdo did this long interview with Lewis and made sure to salute a man who, while notoriously tempermental and mean 'in his prime" had still been nice to Bogdo and towards whom Bogdo felt loyalty.

[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

It would be good to know the time frame of those Norman-Arbo encounters.

--

In terms of the movie as we have it, it is in that great period in the day "from dusk til nightfall." (NOT from dusk til dawn.)

Hitchcock had, the year before, used EXACTLY this same time of day for the scene at the Glen Cove mansion where Roger first meets Vandamm and Company. Indeed, Vandamm has to turn on the lights to illuminate the room as darkness falls.

The scene is lit for sunlight when Arbogast first meets Norman on the porch after driving up(though this scene was filmed on a Bates Motel soundstage set -- there are TWO Bates Motels in the movie, one outdoors on the back lot and this one for dialogue.)

In the office, "the brilliance commences." Hitchcock slowly lowers the lighting and slowly darkens the office, until Arbogast's face is half-in-light/half-in-dark and Norman is a lit face in the dark. The coming of darkness TRIGGERS Norman's action "The light. The sign." He turns on the light because its dark. Arbogast traps him immediately ("And that's exactly my point.")

When the two men go back out on the porch, it is nighttime...and nighttime is no time to be at the Bates Motel. Marion got killed at night. And Mother could be out there in the darkness ...

---

It's December, and I don't know about daylight savings time in the western states, nor the time of day Arbo arrives at the Bates motel. It doesn't feel like December to me, but then this is California.

---

Well, here famously, we have Psycho starting a week earlier on "Friday, December 11." Arbogast is questioning Norman on Saturday December 19. When Arbogast dies, there is a fade in to Sam saying: "Sometimes Saturday Night has a lonely sound."

The famous part: Hitchcock had the "December 11" date slapped on the opening scene of Psycho because the second unit shot the Phoenix footage in November 1959..and Xmas decorations were/are visible on Phoenix streets.

The script places Psycho in "late summer" which is why Cassidy says "Hot as fresh milk!"

No matter to Hitchcock. Or as he would say "its only a movie." Or..."don't be droll." Hitchcock was more willing to convert a summer story into a Christmas tale(with no mention of Xmas in the movie) than to spend money on a Phoenix reshoot.

--

Maybe this is part of the genius of Psycho,--that it takes the viewer out of normal time and space as we know it, making the viewer aware that it is indeed a movie--which puts the scenes in another place entirely: like real life, but not real life.

---

Exactly, I'd say.

I was watching this week the 2016 Oscar nominated movie "Manchester by the Sea" and it occurred to me how this kind of movie "looks just like real life" - the rooms, the talk, the human interaction -- in a way that drains the "movie-ness" out of the movie. "Manchester" is just as much of a fiction as "Psycho," but Hitchocck liked to create reality within a heightened sense OF reality. Or as Hitchcock said, "Other people's films are a slice of life. Mine are a slice of cake."