Noirdame79's Replies


Lana could not keep all the clothes Natalie left her, as she didn't have room for all of it. She used the same shops Natalie used to sell things she didn't want. Since Natalie left the clothes to Lana, they were hers to do with what she wished. And she did keep some of them. As for Robert Wagner, he was seen out with Jill St. John ten weeks after Natalie died, Valentine's Day, 1982. It's hilarious how Wagner and Natalie's daughters always accuse Lana of profiting off of Natalie and being money-hungry when they have profited of off Natalie more than anyone. Natalie's death left Wagner a very wealthy man, and he and Natalie's daughters have written books, marketed a perfume in her name, and sold her personal items - including her Golden Globe Award at auction, and you can't say that Natasha hasn't benefitted during her years as an actress for being Natalie Wood's daughter. Lana wrote two books, over 30 years apart, and has given interviews (and she has talked about her own career, which began when she was a child, in 1955 - so any claims that she took Natalie's screen name is false - her mother chose it for her), and apart from selling clothes that she didn't have room to keep, how is she money-hungry, exactly? The case was re-opened, and Wagner was named a person of interest, and that was not Lana's doing. Natasha and Courtney were children when their mother died, there's a lot that they would not know. Wagner no doubt "filled in the lies" (I mean, gaps). While Douglas was never named as a suspect in the disappearance of Jean Spangler, even the police thought that his actions were strange (contacting them, first to insist that he didn't know Spangler, and then to say that a friend jogged his memory and that he remembered seeing her on the set and joking around with her, and they never interviewed him in person). According to Spangler's family, she did date a man named Kirk briefly, but they never met him or got a good look at him, because he remained in the car both times he came to pick her up. Even if he had nothing to do with her going missing (there are other theories, and her ex-husband, who was actually under investigation at one point, had a motive to want her gone) it's possible (even likely) that Douglas knew Spangler better than he claimed, that perhaps they were involved and there was a possibility that he might have gotten her pregnant. Even though he was a married man, he was unfaithful to his wives and was well-known for making aggressive sexual advances. As for the "this conversation wouldn't be discussed at all if it weren't for Lana Wood's book", that's not true. Her book was published in 2021, this article is from 2018: https://www.mediaite.com/online/twitter-calls-out-golden-globes-for-honoring-kirk-douglas-accused-of-raping-natalie-wood-not-a-good-look/ These two threads on the board for "The Mystery Of Natalie Wood" prove that it was talked about long before Lana's book was published, some of these posts are nineteen years old: https://moviechat.org/tt0389121/The-Mystery-of-Natalie-Wood/58c7891f93cef4080d87dbbd/Who-was-the-rapist https://moviechat.org/tt0389121/The-Mystery-of-Natalie-Wood/58c7892093cef4080d87dc28/who-was-the-actor When Natalie Wood was featured on the television series, "Too Young To Die" in 2016, Suzanne Finstad mentioned that she was raped by a famous actor, and right after that, footage was shown of The Kirk Douglas Theater, which is likely as close as they could come to naming him without being slapped with a lawsuit. This was discussed long before Lana Wood said a word about the sexual assault. Check out the message board here for the miniseries [b][i]The Mystery Of Natalie Wood[/b][/i]. The discussion of the rape and the perpetrator's identity has been a topic of discussion since before the miniseries aired in 2004; Suzanne Finstad's biography of Natalie (the main basis for the miniseries) was the first time the rape appeared in print and at least five of Natalie's friends confirmed that she told them about the rape and the identity of the perpetrator, and they all said it was the same actor/producer. Douglas was still living at the time, and Finstad (who is also an attorney) didn't want to be sued so she didn't name him but she dropped several clues to his identity, and he was referred to in the present tense, meaning that he was alive when the book was published (in the miniseries, the actor who raped Natalie was given a pseudonym, again, in order to avoid a lawsuit). As for his first autobiography, do you recall these passages? In Chapter 12 "Israel", Douglas meets General Moshe Dayan and his family, including his "precocious" TWELVE-year-old daughter, Ya'el. The following paragraph is reproduced in full: "Ya'el was a very bright girl, sexy even at that young age. Jokingly, I said, 'Listen, Ya'el, here's a dime. When you get to be seventeen or eighteen, if you're around Hollywood, call me.' Sure enough, about five or six years later, I got a call in Los Angeles. It was Ya'el Dayan. 'Well, here I am.' Israelis are amazing people." *In Chapter 19 "Stateside", Douglas describes his after-filming activities in Jamaica thus: "There were beautiful, young (I hate to think how young) copper-colored girls dancing and singing Calypso songs - 'Please, mister, don't touch my tomatoes'. Afterward, I would take them up to my bungalow. I'm glad I never asked them how old they were. I think I should have been in jail." He preyed on young girls, by his own admission, which is proof enough. The people interviewed did, but Suzanne Finstad (who is also an attorney) didn't name Douglas in the book, as she didn't want to be sued, and he was of course, still living at the time. She dropped several clues that pointed to his identity, and it wasn't difficult to figure out that it was him. [b][i]"Though her five close friends' memories of some details or timing differ after forty-five years, the essence of what each recalls Natalie confiding to them is the same: that the same married film star lured or tricked Natalie, raped her so brutally she was physically injured, and she was too frightened or intimidated to report it to the police. Natalie "hated" her former screen idol afterward, "shuddering" if she heard his name. She would keep the horrible secret, and behave as if nothing happened whenever their paths intersected, too schooled by Mud [her mother] in the politics of Hollywood to cross a powerful movie star."[/b][/i] Ego is definitely a big thing with him. Maybe on his deathbed (not holding my breath). I believe he's guilty, just because the LASD wimped out on charging him won't change my opinion. Even if more information (or confirmation) doesn't surface until after his death, it's better than nothing. She liked being on the water, not in it. There's a difference. People who knew her at the time that she never swam in the ocean as her husband, children, and friends. She could barely swim, which is a fact. But why didn't he admit to it? He never has. Natalie was terrified of water, and she wasn't wearing underwear and was in a nightgown. This was very out of character for her. Nothing would have changed her fear of water. Wagner was known to be jealous and violent, especially under the influence (and he was drinking that night). Many of those people were interviewed during the re-opened investigation. I have enough closure knowing that Robert Wagner is a person of interest in this case (which has not changed) and the two lead detectives never cleared him and believe he is guilty. Just because the LASD chose to throw in the towel (money and celebrity talks), doesn't mean the case is resolved. Maybe, maybe not. There were witnesses who overheard Wood and Wagner having a loud, agitated argument on the boat deck just before she "disappeared", which corroborates the account of the boat captain, Dennis Davern. Wagner has never admitted to this argument. He has told at least three different versions (in books and interviews) of what happened that night. A 97-year-old former concentration camp prison guard was convicted of war crimes he committed back in the 1940s. Cold cases are solved, and people are charged and sentenced, years after the fact. Even if Wagner is never charged, the truth coming out and him at least being held accountable is better than nothing. Her death is no longer officially considered an accident, and that has not changed. The case is still open. The current detectives choosing not to pursue this case as of now doesn't mean that things can't change in the future. The lead detective retired last year, which was what led to the questionable reports of Wagner being "cleared", but this retired detective, Ralph Hernandez, has stated that he will continue to seek justice for Wood as a civilian, and there are others invested in this case who vowed to not give up. Time will tell. Not being able to charge him does not mean that he is cleared. When the autopsy report was re-examined, it was concluded that the injuries (bruising, etc) that Natalie suffered were consistent with a struggle, not accidental drowning. Lana did not defame him, this was already public knowledge, as per the LASD. And, once again, Wagner has not been officially cleared. The current detectives' decision not to pursue the case further (at least as of now) does not mean that Wagner is innocent. Just because they were not able to charge him does not mean he is cleared, nor does it change that he is the one and only person of interest in this case. It was being investigated as a homicide, and it still remains open, but inactive as of now. Many people don't end up being charged, but that doesn't mean they didn't commit the crime. He was still the last person to see her alive and refused to cooperate with the re-opened investigation, and every few years, there was always a new excuse as to why. First, it was he had "fully cooperated for over 30 years" (speaking to detectives in 1981 does not mean cooperating for over 30 years), then it was "they (the investigators) never tried to contact him" (B.S. it was stated they tried to talk to him multiple times since the re-opening of the case) and the latest one is "he has dementia and doesn't have a clear memory of events that night" (which is ridiculous when he was interviewed for Natalie's daughter's documentary after this, and dementia affects the short-term memory more than anything). Just excuses, and pathetic ones at that. https://radaronline.com/p/robert-wagner-natalie-wood-death-cold-case-investigation/?fbclid=IwAR1rbeX3ORKHQPsMCgIDFM4a-mWglc7 https://radaronline.com/p/robert-wagner-natalie-wood-death-retired-detective-cold-case/?fbclid=IwAR2rAJK4uy-eeJJCXJ-n9fBAHjuNTaarIIfZo-18rxsWr7mbZcNxV8TS1Mk In the 1950s, how many sexual assaults do you think were reported, especially in Hollywood? Several people confirmed when they were interviewed for Suzanne Finstad's 2001 biography of Natalie that she told them about the rape after it happened and the identity of the perpetrator, and they all said it was the same actor/producer. In the novel, Madeline is described as having a superficial resemblance to Elizabeth Short - by how she dresses, how she does her make-up and hair - that was the extent of it. She wasn't supposed to be Short's doppelganger. Move along. Robert Wagner was named as a person of interest in the re-opened investigation into Natalie's death (and contrary to what has been stated, he has not been "cleared" - the lead detective on the case retired) and that had nothing to do with Lana. As I have previously stated, this first came up in 2001, when biographer Suzanne Finstad interviewed Natalie's friends from her teenage years (two of whom have no involvement in the entertainment industry) and confirmed that Natalie told them about the rape after it happened and they all said it was the same actor-producer. Because Douglas was still living at the time, Finstad did not name him for fear of a lawsuit, but she dropped several clues as to his identity, and it wasn't hard to figure out that it was Kirk Douglas, and this was long before Lana said anything. Michael Douglas has been accused of sexual misconduct as well, so I'm not surprised he didn't address it. If you look up the 2004 miniseries, [b][i]The Mystery Of Natalie Wood[/b][/i] on this site, which Lana Wood co-produced and Natalie's biographer, Suzanne Finstad, who was the first to mention the rape in her 2001 book on Natalie served as an executive producer on, there are discussions about the rapist's identity, because her attacker was given a pseudonym in the miniseries in order to avoid a lawsuit (as Kirk Douglas was still living at the time). Many people (including myself) concluded that it was Douglas early on. Someone mentioned his first autobiography, [b][i]The Ragman's Son[/b][/i]. Douglas himself was sexually assaulted as a child, but unfortunately, he didn't see it for what it was, because he was conditioned into thinking he was "lucky" to have that experience. There are also some disturbing passages, including: In Chapter 12 "Israel", Douglas meets General Moshe Dayan and his family, including his "precocious" TWELVE year-old daughter, Ya'el. The following paragraph is reproduced in full: "Ya'el was a very bright girl, sexy even at that young age. Jokingly, I said, 'Listen, Ya'el, here's a dime. When you get to be seventeen or eighteen, if you're around Hollywood, call me.' Sure enough, about five or six years later, I got a call in Los Angeles. It was Ya'el Dayan. 'Well, here I am.' Israelis are amazing people." *In Chapter 19 "Stateside", Douglas describes his after-filming activities in Jamaica thus: "There were beautiful, young (I hate to think how young) copper-colored girls dancing and singing Calypso songs - 'Please, mister, don't touch my tomatoes'. Afterward, I would take them up to my bungalow. I'm glad I never asked them how old they were. I think I should have been in jail." His engagement to Pier Angeli in the early 1950s (she was 19 when they met, but he loved the fact that she looked younger), is also disturbing to read about. He referred her to as "a virginal child" and he ended their engagement when he realized that she was not going to have sex with him before marriage. There is also a much-talked-about episode where he bragged about using sex to punish and degrade an anti-Semitic woman. He had a lot of anger issues, and I absolutely believe that he assaulted Natalie Wood, and he probably did it to others too. As for the disappearance of Jean Spangler, there are a lot of theories and a few other plausible suspects (such as her ex-husband) but I think it's possible that Douglas knew more than he admitted. It is fact. It has a huge cult following.