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louise897 (30)
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Dagon said that the baby only saved Kelly because it needed her in order to survive. A Nephilim is half human; I think that human part was not developed enough to survive at that stage of Kelly's pregnancy so the angel part "healed" Kelly- not for her sake but as self-preservation.
I'm getting ready to start re-watching S12. While I didn't love the BMoL's, I enjoyed this season MUCH more than S11. I know it wasn't a big hit with folks on this board. I'll see if I have a different opinion after re-watch.
The plan to get John and Mary together did happen. The cupid made sure they met, fell in love, and planned to get married. But when Azazel killed John in 1973 (as seen in 4.3 In the Beginning) the plan to ensure Dean and Sam were born was derailed. As Alt!Bobby said, John Winchester died more than 40 years ago, and when Mary Campbell (she never married) was drunk, she would talk about how he was the love of her life.
[quote]Does that mean that those prophecies weren't there or weren't the same[/quote]
The prophecies were the same, but they were just prophecies... predictions, not set-in-stone inevitable outcomes.
[quote]Gabriel said the angels had always known it would come down to Sam and Dean[/quote]
But it didn't; when Dean refused to be Michael's vessel, they went with plan B and resurrected Adam. And Lucifer lost his chance to fight Michael when Sam regained control of his vessel to stop Lucifer from killing his brother. Neither Heaven nor Hell foresaw that happening.
The prophecy was always that the apocalypse would be fought and half of Earth would be destroyed in the battles. What changed things was Sam and Dean Winchester exercising their free will and refusing to go along with the plan that Heaven and Hell had prepared for. A reality where the Winchesters were never being born meant the prophecy was fulfilled (probably by another line of Cain and Abel- plan C?) and the apocalypse happened as predicted.
Azazel said he was hoping Sam would be the psychic kid that would lead Lucifer's army, but he had Jake, Ava, Andy and many others to choose from. He also let John trade his life for Dean's because Hell needed a righteous man to break the first seal to free Lucifer. But when they couldn't break John, the crossroads demon Dean summoned to bring Sam back was tasked with only offering Dean one year- because Hell had a new righteous man to use in their plan. Sam and Dean were ideally suited to be the vessels for Lucifer and Michael, but they were not the only options.
There are millions of descendants of Cain and Abel, so there's bound to be thousands of bloodline "matches" other than the Winchesters and Campbells that the angels could have manipulated for their purpose. Sam and Dean not being born would not necessarily have stopped the apocalypse plan-- it would only change the outcome.
I thought Dean made it pretty clear when he told Sam that despite Cas's faith in the Nephilim, Dean was putting his faith in himself, Sam, Mary, Cas and Crowley... sometimes. They were all in on the plan to trap Lucifer in the alternate reality. Cas introduced Sam and Dean to Alt!Bobby, who gave them an automatic rifle with angel killing bullets. Crowley entered the rift and put together the spell. It did seem like Mary was deliberately left out of the fight, but after half a season of angst over first Mary, then Sam lying about working with the British Men of Letters, I doubt that Dean would not have shared the detail of the plan with her.
Cas was the decoy- attack Lucifer and let Sam and Dean lure him to the rift. Once in the alt reality, Dean held off Lucifer while Crowley and Sam did the spell. It took a while for the spell to work; and it seemed like Cas's job was to stop Lucifer from coming back through the rift in the event that the Winchesters failed to hold him there long enough for him to be sealed in. However, after Cas spoke to Kelly, he seemed determined to take a more active part in protecting Jack- he stormed back into the rift and attacked Lucifer. Again, like the viewers, he must have known an angel blade wouldn't kill an archangel- but I think Cas thought stabbing Lucifer would slow him down enough for Cas to get out before the rift closed, sealing Lucifer in.
When that failed, Mary tried to knock Luci back into the alternate reality. I don't think she intended to get pulled in, but she had to know that attacking Lucifer with warded brass knuckles was going to put her close enough for him to kill her. She risked it to save her sons and to put Lucifer back in the alternate world before the rift disappeared.
I think Bella is right, Jack didn't intentionally cause the rift- it was the power generated by his impending birth that caused it.
[quote]Also Crowley did a spell that was to close the rift to keep Lucifer in the alternate reality. But from what I saw it didn't work. [/quote]
It did work, it just took some time. I assumed Cas knew that a regular angel blade wouldn't kill an Archangel; he was just trying to slow Lucifer down until the rift closed and locked him in the alternate universe. But after Lucifer managed to recover and follow Cas back through the portal, Mary decided to sacrifice herself by knocking Lucifer back into the rift and holding him there until it closed.
It might make an interesting spin off. Maybe just the first one or two would be about Mary working with Bobby and other hunters in the alternate universe. But after that (however TPTB want to resolve the Lucifer/Mary storyline) the rest of the episodes could be different alternate realities. That way we could see some of our favorite characters again in 1, 2 or 3 episode arcs. Then on to the next reality.
I won't say I'm bitter, but I am disappointed that Rowena is gone. I really liked her.
On the bright side, remember how Abaddon was burned, but a demon used a spell to resurrect her meat suit? Max is a witch and he has that book of dark magic, so you never know... Rowena may be back.
The Winchesters are the poster children for "doing terrible things all the time to save each other." They also know what it's like to grow up as hunters- hiding who you are and what your family does from everyone you meet. They understand better than most how a hunter's life makes you unnaturally dependent on your sibling. Max and Alicia were hunters and twins. They literally spent their entire lives together. I couldn't believe Sam and Dean left Max to "do the right thing." They had to know he would not be able to go on without his sister.
At first I thought Sam and Dean would take the ring to make sure Max wouldn't try to use it. Then I thought for sure as they were talking in the car about the lengths they would go to for each other, they would realize that Max would do the same; they would turn the Impala around and go back, only to find the house burning and Max and Alicia gone.
After an entire episode about empathy, having the Winchesters leave Max alone to grieve for his mother and sister seemed... bizarre. It was the only part of the episode I didn't like.
[quote]If the carving scene is foreshadowing, then for the writers to pull something out that has such sentimentality attached to it, it'd have to foreshadow something big.[/quote]
I do think something big is coming, although for the life of me I can't figure out what. I was thinking they may be leaving the bunker for a while (or permanently) but I could be wrong. As you say, set costs.
But isn't that the point of foreshadowing? To alert you that something is coming... to build anticipation? At the end of Dog Dean Afternoon, when Sam asks Dean why the chef asked what Sam was, Dean casually replies that the guy was crazy, but then adds more seriously and reflectively, "He was possessed by something he couldn't control. It was... It was a matter of time before it completely took over." We may not have known what was going to happen when Sam found out he was possessed (Metatron, Gadreel, the broken spell, Kevin's death), but it was pretty clear from that scene that the consequences would be big; not just for Sam but also for Dean.
I'm just guessing that they may be leaving the bunker. I could be way off on that. But when you start talking about legacy- about what you're leaving behind, it's a pretty good hint that something big is about to change. And if that's the case, I'd rather see a nice thoughtful moment now than have it lost during the potential chaos when that change (whatever it may be) takes place, or be diminished as an epilogue after the fact.
It's just my preference in storytelling.
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