Why do you assume she would be an effeminate GAY guy as opposed to an effeminate STRAIGHT guy?
I'm just wondering why so many ppl assert that she is "merely an effeminate gay guy" rather than just asserting she's "merely an effeminate GUY"?
Why add the GAY? I'm just wondering why you think her sexual orientation even plays a part in her being feminine or identifying as a girl?
I'm sure you already know the answer to this one. People tend to think that effeminate boys/men are, by default, gay.
To again quote Zinnia Jones on something:
When commenters offer their suggestions for alternatives to transitioning, it usually goes like this: “It’s too bad you couldn’t just be a really feminine guy. Have you tried being a gay man?” Maybe they don’t know this, but yes, I have tried those things. I tried them for many years. The two most obvious issues were that I’m not really a guy, and that I’m not attracted to men.share
Yes I knew it, I'd just like to hear WHY ppl say this. I love it how Zinnia says, you could just as easily ask a guy gay, "Have you considered just being a straight transgender girl?" lol
My mom always thought I was going to grow up to be GAY b/c I was so feminine as a child, I still like to kid her and say, "You were sorta right, I AM gay, just not the kind of gay you were thinking." lol.
Well I guess the only way to assume that now would be because Jazz is attracted to boys?
shareI THINK Jazz herself has said she is not really sure, or that she was leaning toward being pansexual.
shareAttracted to Peter Pan?
shareShe claims she's attracted to a girl now. Most likely this entire show is scripted and staged, so no telling if that storyline of her going out with a girl is even true.
It looked incredibly staged last Tuesday when a heckler showed up at their carwash just to state his opinion of what he thought of them, especially with cameras around to record every moment. Puleeze!!
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Ppl on here ~and elsewhere~ have been saying they feel Jazz was "merely going to be GAY", rather than trans. And I was just wondering WHY ppl on here think her sexual orientation would even play a role in this at all.
shareTinkerB,
Maybe one of the reasons that (^) point has come up previously, is because a 2 year old child doesn't really know how to express what they are, or what they like, or what they prefer 100% of the time.
Toddlers are just learning to put cohesive sentences and paragraphs together at age 2. Expressing higher level cognitive particularities take a long time for human beings to reach those higher levels. Toddlers are limited in their expressions of "self".
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That is my whole point, how on earth do ppl think that a 2 year old could know anything about being GAY, ~having a sexual orientation~
Don't get me wrong, I believe Jazz is trans 100%, but for ppl thinking that she's "merely an effeminate gay guy, it seems it would make more sense to just say, "I believe she's merely an effeminate boy!" rather than effeminate GAY boy. I mean just leave the gay out of it.
In my own mind, I could see a 3 year old having a better understanding of their internal GENDER ~being a boy or girl~ than I could them having ANY kind of an understanding about sexual orientation ~gay or straight~
a 2 year old child doesn't really know how to express what they are, or what they like, or what they prefer 100% of the time.
Toddlers are just learning to put cohesive sentences and paragraphs together at age 2. Expressing higher level cognitive particularities take a long time for human beings to reach those higher levels. Toddlers are limited in their expressions of "self".
YES! I agree so much with you. I didn't grow up on a farm, but I always had to help with dishes when we got together with extended family and clean-up while the boys could run off. My mom would also reprimand me for not talking when we got together while I talked no more or less than my brother, but I'm just not a talker! I also always felt I had to be good, whereas if I were a boy maybe I'd have allowed myself to be a little bit more of a troublemaker. But I would be such a confused adult if my parents had decided that my not being a prim and proper, talkative bubbly little girl meant I was a boy.
shareYeah that doesn't really have anything to do with it. Jazz is not a girl b/c she liked to play with dolls and wear skirts, Jazz is a girl b/c she was born with a female gender.
There are transgender girls, like Jazz, who are TOMBOYISH, actually, and there are transgender boys who are effeminate. I am good friend with a trans girl who was born male, but identifies and lives as FEMALE, but she is practically a flat out butch woman, Never wears make-up, never wear dresses, muscular, works on cars, etc.... she DOES have rather long hair, but that is the most stereotypical girly thing about her.
Gender Identity and Gender Expression are 2 totally different things, as is Sexual Orientation.
Yes, but how can a little kid fully express what they are? How do they even know?
My cousin has all boys, and when his middle child was little he insisted on wearing dresses for several years and I believe he even had a name he wanted to be called. Now in middle school, he has no interest in female clothing nor does he go by anything other than his birth name. How was he so different than Jazz when they were little? My cousin and his wife would have been fine with him identifying as a girl or boy and never agreed or disagreed with their son about his gender. Jazz wasn't given that wiggle room. She said she was a girl VERY young, and her mom decided that was true and pretty much from then on Jazz couldn't "change" back if she wished. Now I'm not saying Jazz isn't truly transgendered, just that how can one know what their child says and/or does is anything more than a phase? Like I said, my cousin's kid said he was a girl for YEARS and then decided he wasn't anymore. Then again, he never had parents that decided who he was and what he should wear or be. From what we've seen of Jazz and her family, her mother is very overpowering and very much tries to force Jazz into who she believes is a perfect daughter.
Yes, but how can a little kid fully express what they are? How do they even know?
My cousin has all boys, and when his middle child was little he insisted on wearing dresses for several years and I believe he even had a name he wanted to be called. Now in middle school, he has no interest in female clothing nor does he go by anything other than his birth name.
This is a thing that worries me, because for a few months, my son wanted to be called a boy when he wore pants and a girl when she wore dresses. He's changed since then to being very adamant that he's a boy in a dress, but I'm left hoping that he came to that on his own, rather than as a result of some pressure I missed. His father and I have had talks with him, where we try to make sure that he knows he can use any pronouns he feels fit. I'd hate for him to to feel a need to repress part of himself.
shareHe may be gender-fluid, or maybe he was just trying things out. My youngest son went through a trying-on-high-heels stage but it was just a trying-on stage, it turned out.
Gender fluid was what I thought, until he stopped. The therapist said that he might have been trying things out to see what felt right, too. I worry about everything when it comes to my kids, though, so I might not stop being concerned that he's too scared to admit he's gender fluid until he's older.
shareI think you and your husband are really good parents :)
I think this shows the difference between trans ppl and a child who like to have activities of their opposite sex. Many ppl will say that Jazz is just a feminine boy, but I definitely think there is a difference between someone like Jazz and someone like your son.
Even in may case, I guess I was seen a lot like your son, but I identified as a female. My grandma ~I think~ even once said, "You know you can STILL be a boy and enjoy dressing up and playing with dolls, it's ok!" And I was like, "I know that but I'm a GIRL!" I already had a very clear idea of who I was even at like 5 or 6. I used to get very angry and even would cry if anyone called me a boy.
Thank you, Jonna.
Children have a better grasp of their identity than we give them credit for.
YES they certainly do! I get annoyed when people say, "oh he or she is a child, they don't know what they want yet." Well who the heck else knows what they want if not them?
I know!! It's like a meme that's going around, "She's too young to decide to be a girl....said no one ever to the cis girl!" lol
shareChild Development researchers have been saying for quite some time that a child's understanding of their own gender identity begins quite young and is stable by age four. If this is true of cis children, why would it be different of trans and non-binary children?
shareI don't know really...it's just something you KNOW from deep inside.. When your brain does not match your assigned sex, you just KNOW something is "out of wack".
I'm a trans girl...I was born male but KNEW I was REALLY a girl at like 4 years old and I was expressing it even then, by saying, "I'm a girl" which was responded to with "NO YOURE NOT!! YOURE A BOY!!!" SO I definitely was not brainwashed nor encouraged!
And I didn't feel like a girl b/c I liked to play with dolls or have tea parties, I felt like a girl b/c I had a girl's brain.
I kinda like the saying I heard a trans woman say, "I didn't feel like a girl b/c I enjoyed playing with dolls and wearing skirts, I enjoyed playing with dolls and wearing skirts b/c I felt like a girl!"
I DO like the sentiment even though I know many girls do not like stereotypical fem things, but I DO think there is a reason girls typically gravitate toward dolls and tea sets while boys usually gravitate toward guns and trucks.
But even me a sa trans girl, I DID go through a tomboyish stage at like 7, where I loved climbing trees, catching bugs, etc.. but I still identified as a female.
And I truly believe Jazz is trans.. A phase generally doesn't last 10 years. And even if it is a 10 year phase, I don't see any harm has been done since puberty blockers are reversible. Many trans ppl, esp. trans women are stuck with irreversible effects of puberty simply b/c their parents thought it was a PHASE and made the wrong decision.
Of course you knew you were a girl at a young age. That's my point. Child development research has shown that children have a stable sense of their gender by age 4. In cis children, this is never questioned, because they're behaving in a manner expected of them. People question it with trans kids, but they shouldn't, because the same research is still sound. By age 4, kids know their gender, so when a child who was AMAB says, "I'm a girl," people should not jump to the conclusion that the child is confused or too young to know.
shareIn cis children, this is never questioned, because they're behaving in a manner expected of them.
I'm not referring to gender norms; I'm talking about self-identifying one's gender. No one questions a 2 yo cis girl who says "I'm a girl," because she is behaving in the expected manner by saying that she is a girl. However, they do question the 2 yo child who was assigned male at birth who says, "I'm a girl." This is a double standard, because the same research that has been taught in child development classes for years states each of those 2 yos has a good sense of their own gender identity, and a complete and stable sense of their own gender identity by age 4. For the same reason that you would not question the cis girl, you should not question the trans girl.
shareYeah, you didn't really answer my question, you merely reasserted the POSITION that I was questioning.
My question is WHY would HER being gay have anything to do with it? Why not just say SHE is an effeminate GUY? What would HER sexual orientation have to do with it?
What makes you think a GAY GUY would want to pretend to be a girl?
And you do realize there are trans girls who date GIRLS, right? Not all trans women fancy men.
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Why do you keep saying HER when it's factually a HIM.
He is an effeminate gay guy. That's a fact. He's admitted he's gay. And he wears make up and women's clothes and wants to rearrange his pen1s into a faux vag1na.
Luckily for her, the large amount of studies that have been done on sex and gender prove your opinion, literally, in fact, wrong.
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Seeing as how you're deciding that your opinion outweighs modern medicine, it seems that you're the one throwing the tantrum.
share[deleted]
And you are reported for hate speech, enjoy your posts getting deleted.
share[deleted]
How can it be truth speech when every method we have of verifying information says that you're wrong and that your transphobic speech is detrimental to society?
shareYeah EVERYONE seems to think they have the INTRINSIC TRUTH.. but many ppl DISAGREE with you on your version of the "truth", In fact the majority of the medical and psychiatric community DISAGREE with you. So it is merely an opinion... YOUR opinion.
I hate to bbreak it to you but YOUR definition of MALE and FEMALE are not intrinsically and empirically ingrained into the structure of the universe.
The universe didn't just pop into existence with the idea already intrinsically ingrained into it that "Penis + XY Chromosomes = Male = Man = He/Him pronouns.
You need to learn the difference between an empirical FACT and a CONCEPT.
I could just as easily ask you WHY having a penis and XY chromosomes makes Jazz a GUY? Why are SEX and GENDER the same thing? Just b/c Jazz's sex is male, WHY does that make her gender male?
Yes, sure. It's the liberals throwing a fit. Running around on a forum on transness, slinging hate speech, saying that only your interpretations of gender, sex, etc are valid because peer reviewed studies can be flawed (but somehow not the studies that you use to gather your information) is in no way throwing a fit on a scale of flat earthers or creationists. Sure thing.
What is an actual way that you are threatened by the transgender community, that you can't keep your oppressive opinions to yourself? You must get an awful lot of pleasure out of being intentionally cruel to come insult a bunch of people you think are mentally ill. Ando if you truly believe that trans people are mentally ill, then what kind of pathetic human being are you that you would have to behave this way towards them just to feel good about yourself?
Rapeisablah,blah,blah,
Trannyism has nothing to do with medicine. IT's liberal politics. You are mentally ill.
You are mentally ill.
She is male but she's also a girl.
She's not a male in any way that matters.
Sex is your chromosomes, gender is how you interact in daily life.
So throw a tantrum all you want, if she's seen as a female under the law, if she has a female drivers license, if society AGREES she is a female, then she IS A FEMALE... She's a female in every way that's practical and useful and not a male in any way that's relevant to anything.
Except somehow this user "Rape" is very fixated on Jazz's penis. The argument always comes back to this fixation on the genitals of people that will never be met and certainly never be slept with. For someone asserting that trans people are mentally ill, thatroops comes across as a bit off.
shareIKR, haters seem soo fixated on transgender ppl's genitals.
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Rapeisablah,blah,blah
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Punkin, you bring up a good point. A lot of the typical behaviors of current conservatives actually line up with disorders. Outside of Trump, I don't think I've ever realized that before.
shareI am Jazz does not obsess over people's genitals. The people who watch it in order to carry on about her being a "boy" because she has a penis are the ones who obsess over people's genitals.
The show's not about her genitals, but it is interesting and creep that you interpret it that way.
share[deleted]
Because effeminate dudes are usually gay.like almost always. You know this so stop. People on this board are ridiculous
shareBecause effeminate dudes are usually gay.like almost always