MovieChat Forums > The Last of Us (2023) Discussion > Question to any gays in the audience ......

Question to any gays in the audience ... S1 E3 - Bill & Frank

posted a year ago by TrentnQuarantino (8964)
6 replies | jump to latest

Having not played or even heard of the game I was completely surprised by the whole sequence of events. I kept thinking that Frank had others out in the woods waiting to attack, or that Bill was going to kill Frank, or that finally when Bill relaxes his guard that Franks was going to murder him.

So, my question is, how did Frank know that Bill was gay, or open to a homosexual experience/relationship? Gaydar as they call it? What is it?

Did Bill have previous experience with gay sex or gay relationships in the game? It seemed to me that Bill had not had gay sex before, right?

Clearly they didn't have time to flesh out the whole getting to know each other part of their relationship, but if you flip this around to a man finding a women caught in his snare, that would have probably taken a lot longer to develop - if it even did.

So, what do people think about the sex in the first hour or knowing someone ... gay or straight? Was that coerced?

If Frank had been Francine, would sex have happened or would it be considered harassment or rape if it did. Was Frank basically prostituting himself for Bill in order not to have to stay out unprotected in the wild?

In the gay context it all was meant to seem so romantic, but if Frank was a woman, what would people be thinking. Also, both Frank and Bill seemed like civilized characters, but what would have happened if one or the other had less than a shining character.

There is a lot to think about in this episode and if you flip it around in different ways, it's not so simple or romantic.

[–] cupcakekid (37) a year ago

Gay male dynamics can be quite different from heterosexual ones. Try chatting with gay men and some will want to have sex without having seen your face and are ready to meet you. Not saying all gay men are like this but things can be far more direct.

There's a higher biological cost to pregnancy born by women plus societal norms make them more picky in general.

So direct flip without acknowledging this isn't that instructive.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8964) a year ago

I think you can draw a conclusion that flipping this from gay to hetero is not the same, i.e. it doesn't work. Most people would not buy it.

I had a gay uncle, and an apartment manager where I once lived was gay. My uncle was apparently very promiscuous, but his "partner" was kind of a homebody. So, that is what I thought was unaccounted for in this episode. Not that it was fake or real, just that it didn't really give the view more understanding. That said, it's more than we usually get which I get upset some people.

[–] TheGutterMonkey (297) a year ago

I'm not gay so I can't speak from that perspective, but I found this aspect of the episode to be the biggest flaw in it. Like you said, how does he even know Bill is gay? Heck, it seemed like even Bill himself wasn't sure he was gay. And even if Frank did have a valid reason to suspect he was gay, it still felt very unrealistic to me that he'd so confidently start to push himself on this clearly paranoid gun-toting man. He was likely to either get himself killed or, at the very least, get kicked out of this utopia sooner than he wanted. And speaking of Bill's paranoia, it felt out of character for him to so quickly go along with all of this too. I get that he was lonely, but c'mon. None of it felt genuine to me.

Putting all of that aside, however, I thought the episode was the best thus far once you allow yourself to just accept that hamfisted beginning for what it was. But it was hamfisted. And while I realize the show only had a limited amount of time to get these two characters together, surely they could've done so more believably than they did. Heck, at least make it take more than a few hours before they're sleeping with each other. A couple of week-long flashforwards highlighting their getting-to-know-you stages or something, perhaps.

[–] BourbonKing (5705) a year ago

I'm not gay either, but I don't think their connection was hamfisted, just rushed. There are plenty of Dramas, RoComs, and Actio/Adventure between Hetero characters and hookup was immediate even for the scenarios they were in it comes off as rushed or a total surprise.

[–] TheGutterMonkey (297) a year ago

Well, I was saying it was rushed (i.e., forced into the story too quickly as opposed to feeling like it organically evolved). I'm sure many movies and TV shows do this but that doesn't seem to be good validation for the act of doing it; whether the characters are straight or gay. All that means is that other shows have stunk in this regard as well.

That being said, the fact that the characters were gay (which seemed to defy probability, considering homosexuals are such a low percentage of the population and the odds that the last two men in this area would happen to be gay would be very slim; but nvm that lol) does probably make me even more in disbelief about how quickly this relationship unfolded. I'd think that, in reality, someone like Frank should've been especially wary about coming on so strongly and so suddenly to a crazy-looking, gun-toting, paranoid stranger in a lawless land to who he only spoke a few words to beforehand. Heck, it can be dangerous for a homosexual to do that anywhere even now, let alone someplace in a post-apocalyptic world where they can be easily killed without repercussions (by a man who just a bit earlier was threatening him). But Frank just dove in without fear (after cowering just moments earlier) as if he had magical gaydar superpowers and knew Bill would go along with it. And Bill, inexplicably, instantly did go along with it, despite being shown as a hyper-paranoid alpha male. Out of nowhere, he just went meek and submissive to this stranger he just met.

It just didn't feel very believable to me is all. It felt forced. In my opinion, they could have maybe taken some cues from something such as Brokeback Mountain in this respect (with how Gyllenhaal slowly felt out Ledger before making a move, and how Ledger insecurely pushed back — no pun intended — before going along with it).

Like I said, I thought the episode was great aside from this. Just thought this part could've been handled better.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (8964) a year ago

> and the odds that the last two men in this area would happen to be gay would be very slim;

I'm not so sure about that. It may be an incorrect stereotype, but I think that gay men take better than average care of themselves, so they would be healthier and stronger than the norm - and likely more intelligent. Working in tech I am always astonished about the number of gay people, but also the "emotional intelligence" most of them have in terms of political behavior. Might be why gays are or seem over-represented in high places?

Also more equipped to be alone. I think also likely to be less involved in gangs, or crime, rape, etc than the average thug that might gravitate to a gang, like we see in Ep. 4.

Because of their estrangement from society less likely to join up with gangs, and more likely to survive longer, meaning more likely to eventually run into each other. At least that argument could be made.

> I'd think that, in reality, someone like Frank should've been especially wary about coming on so strongly and so suddenly to a crazy-looking, gun-toting, paranoid stranger in a lawless land to who he only spoke a few words to beforehand.

LOL - Exactly ... but they had to push the plot along. There is also the incredible loneliness and anxiety and fear that once broken though would tend to really bond people.

> Out of nowhere, he just went meek and submissive to this stranger he just met.

Or he finally realized his value of all this knowledge and hard work and how it now fit into his life and could become himself, more or less.

There are all these contradictions that you rightly point out, but looking back on things that I've done in my life, good or bad, right or wrong, most were not well thought out like I would analyse someone's behavior in a play or drama. People can be quite irrational in the oddest of places and times if a desire is in reach.