SPOILER: In the end we see Rene meeting Mckenzie's uncle, I guess Rene must have followed him when he left the ferry, but they only look at each other awkwardly when they meet. We don't see any police or them having a discussion.
What can we assume?
I think Rene went there to confront him physically about his abuse - but when he actually saw him; he realized that he was not willing to give up his own gentle nature in order to do that. He just turned away and walked away.
shareBut we did not see that--that he walked away. I think it's fair to say nothing in Rene's character would lead us to believe, e.g., that he'd physically harm the guy, but he could say "I know what you did, and if you try to pursue her, I'll make sure the police know, too."
I'm on the fence as to whether it was a good ending.
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I go to the movies more than you.
Sounds like we are provoking the conversation we intended to. So nice to have a film that doesn't just tell you everything but lets you think for yourself, no?
shareSo nice to have a film that doesn't just tell you everything but lets you think for yourself, no?
No.
It's the writer's job to write an ending. Failure to do that, leaving it up to the audience to write the ending, isn't artistic, it's a copout.
Too many films these days don't end; they just stop. The defenders of this pretentious practice claim it's thought-provoking, but it's really just guess-provoking.
Write a proper ending and stand by it.
Otherwise, a very good film. Well done!
There was an ending. Mackenzie got away and Bart confronted the uncle. A good writer makes his or her audience crave more and that I what he did.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2604794/
It's the writer's job to write an ending. Failure to do that, leaving it up to the audience to write the ending, isn't artistic, it's a copout.
Too many films these days don't end; they just stop. The defenders of this pretentious practice claim it's thought-provoking, but it's really just guess-provoking.
Write a proper ending and stand by it.
Sounds like we are provoking the conversation we intended to. So nice to have a film that doesn't just tell you everything but lets you think for yourself, no?
How did the movie suggest that violence was an option? It would be understandable, but they didn't show any hint of it. It may not be 100% clear but I think it's likely that they had a discussion and maybe even reached an agreement. I'm OK with not being told. You even said violence would have been out of character, so it seems you didn't need to be told either.
shareWell maybe it's a bit petty of me but I resent the idea of "polarizing" your audience, meaning to make something deliberately bad or aggravating to stir debate and get more interest.
I'm ok with the ending and not being told as well, I just resent the sentiment behind the directors comment. Some people do debate this. Yeah maybe I am a bit petty ;)
What do you think they did that was bad or aggravating?
For lots of people, the best movies are the ones that you talk about for a long time after watching it. These are certainly the ones that I like. So I don't only not mind, I appreciate it.
The best example I can think of is the movie Total Recall (1990). The whole movie can be interpreted in exactly two different ways (all real or all in his head). That happens in a lot of movies but in that one they very carefully arranged things so that both were equally likely. It was completely deliberate, and I think it's the best thing about the movie.
You can look at the subject of audience manipulation in two similar ways. You can resent it or you can appreciate it. I come down on different sides for different movies. This time I thought it was fine but you didn't, and neither of us is wrong.
I absolutely like well written ambiguity, but it's much harder to write than people think imho. Here it's not well written ambiguity because the one interpretation would be out of character. Kind of tacked on.
Like some producer or movie studio suit had a big meeting and someone had the brilliant idea: "Hey how about we make it ambiguous? All those movie nerds love to argue about that sort of *beep* But the story wasn't actually written with that in mind.
Also not every movie should be ambiguous. Some stories should be clear and better for it.
So I resent the director (only a tiny bit) for trying to force ambiguity onto the ending and into the discussion. It takes away from the beauty of the movie.
All you need to say then is "This time it didn't work for me". I agree that it's difficult to get right which is why I don't feel the need to bash anyone about it. There are so many fads that don't work for me (EG shaky-cam) that I try to just enjoy the exceptions.
shareDid you notice the playing of the song "The Parting Glass" right as the Uncle opened the door, and the line ...
But since it fell into my lot
That I should rise and you should not
I'll gently rise and softly call
Good night and joy be to you all
This song is played when two people are parting and do know
if they will see each other again. This was very confused.
I'm supposing the point isn't what he did but that he did something. And I did actually like that a lot of things weren't spelled out, in particular - McKenzie's motivation for following Bart. It was nice to wonder about that whilst watching. So, yeah, on the whole. I can see why some people mightn't like the sudden ending though.
shareSounds like we are provoking the conversation we intended to.
I agree ... they only do it so people are confused rather than critical, and it stimulates second movie tickets and people going back to see it again if they missed something.
shareI liked how the film ended. Too many times I hear people complain about a happy ending. In this case, The Uncle getting his ass handed to him. I think people need to study the actors expressions as that gives a premonition of what occurred between them and make their own interpretation. Just like life, you don't need your hand held for everything. I like the ide that I can envision what was said and what was done. Great job!
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2604794/
Rene doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would let something as disgusting as child abuse go unpunished. Especially not when he's witnessed the affects of that sick man's actions firsthand on someone he cares for. No, he made that drive to beat the uncle to a bloody pulp and make sure he never attempts to contact Mackenzie again. That's how I interpreted the ending.
"You're an idiot." - Irisa Nolan, Defiance (2013)
Me 2
shareSo why are they playing the sing the parting glass that says this
at this exact moment ...
But since it fell into my lot
That I should rise and you should not
I'll gently rise and softly call
Good night and joy be to you all
It seems to raise the possibility that Bart is going to die.
Or maybe it is just a tune ... I really did not like that ending.
The play that line in the "The Parting Glass" song at the same time that Bart is standing in the doorway.
But since it fell into my lot
That I should rise and you should not
I'll gently rise and softly call
Good night and joy be to you all
There is one person who is going to rise and one person who is going to die
I'm assuming, and since it is a sad song, it is either implying that Bart is
going to die ... but they do not give any hint that is true or not or how or even
why?
I have to say I just did not and do not understand the ending of that movie.
I wondered the same thing until I took a closer look at what happened immediately preceding Uncle opening the door. Watch when Renee walks up the stairs to Uncle's place. Renee clicks/rattles something under his shirt above his back pants pocket.
I'm thinking it was a gun - this is a common place to hide a firearm. Hard to tell because the shot is deliberately occluded. Could have been keys, but I'm thinking bang bang.
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It's an opinion, not a statement of fact nor a declaration of war on your existence. Relax.
That's 100% keys. The sound isn't completely realistic but it's definitely keys.
shareNote to the director - you made a terrific film. Engaging with the usual Imdb idiots is not a good idea.
Note to the usual suspect who said it's a writer's job to write an ending. Yes, and the writer wrote one - you just didn't like it. It's fine not to like it - I, and others, think it works perfectly and there are scores of movies throughout history with endings that don't hammer you over the head with everything. I understand that's what the kiddies want these days, but here we have a film that isn't cookie-cutter, doesn't conform to screenwriting 101 and just goes about is business telling a good tale and telling it well - superb, understated direction, beautiful camerawork, and fantastic performances from everyone. And the ending is hardly the only thing in this film that's not spelled out, and that's one of the wonders of the movie.
I agree. An ending that purports to "complete" a story is more pretentious in my opinion, since it manipulates against the ambiguity and uncertainty of real life. I can't imagine what I would do in Rene's situation, so the open-ended road feels uncomfortably real.
shareJust noticed this while going thru old posts in anticipation of the deletion of the message boards.
How pathetic that you feel so threatened by opinions that differ from yours that you must strike out in anger, hoping to make the bad people with the bad thoughts go away. Have you tried sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling, "La la la la..."?
Fortunately, I don't believe the writer/director is as weak-minded as you; he appears willing to engage with the "usual suspects", even if they don't always offer unconditional praise.
I agree, it was his rental car keys. If you look at the keys as he takes them out of the ignition in front of Uncle's house, you'll notice the little plastic rental car ID thingy. He was putting them in his back pocket as he walked up the steps.
shareThough inferred I thought it was obvious that René sprayed his pepper aerosol bear repellent into the uncle's face then savagely butt raped him (mostly for spite.) Soon afterward René met Mackenzie in Seattle and the two lovers eloped to Paris.
He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.
This is the same impression I got, although that brief shot of the moose antlers hanging on the living room wall earlier in the movie is obviously a Chekhov's gun, so it pretty much goes without saying that the uncle ended up gored on them.
shareMost excellent. Moose antlers up the old bung hole. Certainly would take a strong arm.
He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.
While it would be really satisfying to think that the uncle was shot in the head or beaten to a pulp, I think that it's more likely that Bart would just leave.
I think that when he goes up to the house he maybe has something vaguely vengeful in mind, but when the door actually opens he sees that the person in front of him is just a loser. Is he a rapist? Yes. Does he deserve punishment? Absolutely. But I don't think that anyone would actually be helped by Bart hurting the uncle.
I think that it's important to remember that Bart infers that something bad happened between McKenzie and the uncle (even though when he confronts her about it she says "Nothing happened!"), but he doesn't know the specifics. As the audience we know that it was bad and probably rape, but Bart doesn't know what we know.
In real life, people are complicated. The uncle is a messed up guy. He's isolated himself in Alaska. Aside from his one adult male colleague and a reference to an ex-girlfriend he seems to have basically no social life. We see that he has some degree of guilt/self-loathing about what he does to his niece, so he isn't a flat-out sociopath or sadist.
Is it worth it for Bart to spend years or even decades in jail for assault/murder? Would that in any way fix what happened to McKenzie? You might argue that it would protect future victims, but it still means Bart possibly giving the rest of his life away. With McKenzie's mother struggling with serious issues and rehab, where would that leave McKenzie?
I'd like to think that Bart and McKenzie find each other later. That McKenzie is empowered to tell someone in power the story of what happened to her and to seek justice. That Bart and McKenzie continue to be friends and that McKenzie can have a sane, unselfish, genuinely parent-like figure in her life to help her on her path to adulthood.
1. Rene knows pretty much what we know -- that the uncle got in bed with MK, and presumably molested her. (We could see he learned this from the texts.)
2. We don't know if he actually raped her, vs. molesting her. Obviously bad enough either way.
3. I agree the uncle was more pathetic than demon-evil. Killing him would've probably been excessive.
4. I think Bart probably tells the uncle to leave her alone -- or face the cops -- but I agree he probably didn't attack him.
5. There's no question that Bart and MK get together in Seattle, as he left her his contact info, and she looks to him as a father and protector now. Positive ending.
Rene knows pretty much what we know -- that the uncle got in bed with MK, and presumably molested her. (We could see he learned this from the texts.)
There is one exchange that is fairly unambiguous. When they're on the ferry back to Juneau and Bart reads the messages on her phone, one of the messages from uncle to her is "You know you can't say anything about what we did." Her reply to uncle is "Why did you get in my bed?"
I think the title of the last chapter on the DVD/Blu-ray is a bit of a give away as to what happens after the events in the movie. It is titled "A New Home"
A-ha! Thank you for that detail. I was watching the movie on a slightly pixelated Netflix feed and there were several times that I could not read the text messages (and was not sure if the audience was meant to be able to read them). I knew that Bart had seen something on her phone that disturbed him, but thought it was more those vague "We're going to get in trouble" messages.
I had thought that none of the messages explicitly referenced what happened between them.
Man--it speaks so many volumes that the uncle is playing those mind games with her: "What we did"? Pffft. Such a tool.
Did I miss a part where the texts actually reference what happened between them in any detail, like him getting into bed with her? (Not sarcastic--I'm genuinely asking). I thought that I remembered the texts and calls being pretty vague from the uncle and not getting into any specifics. Things like "I don't want you to get in trouble" or "We messed up."
The whole scene and ending made no sense to me.
shareI think we can safely assume that Bart told the uncle to leave MacKenzie alone, or he would go to the cops about the molestation. (He may not have even needed to say anything -- Barts face, and the uncles, may have said it all already.) And that the uncle complied.
The director/writer leave it somewhat open to interpretation, but I think the above can be safely assumed given what we know about both characters. The uncle isn't stupid, and knows he's in legal danger already. And Bart isn't a very violent person, so while he may have been tempted to attack the uncle -- his is stare very intense at first -- he appears to settle down after seeing the uncle is more pathetic than anything else.
P.S.: I don't think the director/writer was seeking to provoke debate by not making the ending more clear. I think they probably just decided that it was pretty self-evident that Bart warned off the uncle in some way. Which is what really mattered -- that someone actually cared about MacKenzie, stood up for her, and looked out for her. With any actual depiction of the (verbal) confrontation unnecessary and anti-climactic.
Finally, I don't think -- in this case -- the ambiguous ending was annoying for (most) viewers, or an attempt at artsy fashion. I think it was more a gift to the viewers, and those who really felt the need for a more violent ending could always interpret it in that way if desired -- Bart plugs the uncle, and then goes home to meet MK.
(I do agree that the absence of any real ending is a real problem in some other films, and highly annoying.)
"What can we assume?"
You can assume anything you want; that was the point in leaving the ending the way it was.
For me, I believe Rene went there to physically attack the uncle, but didn't.
I liked the ambiguous ending, allowing us to wonder what happened, and to come up with various scenarios in our own minds.
Whatever it is I don't think Rene went there to rough up the uncle. No way. Uncle is so youthful and strong, will have no problem to handle old Rene.
shareWhen he sent the text on MacKenzie's phone, it read, "coming back tomorrow, forgot your address". That's how he tricked Uncle into finding out where his home was. On the final scene with MacKenzie she realized he sent the text and said, "you sent a text on my phone?" and at that point she knew why he put her on the ferry alone and would not allow her to come with him to Uncle's house.
I think since they never said what Bart's occupation was, it would have been an excellent ending for him to have taken out a FBI Agent's badge or at the very least, have a police officer drive up in the background behind him as he stood on the porch.
The worst was going through my head, that Bart would sacrifice himself to save the girl and either end up dead or in prison. I realize this was the conditioning of having seen too many lurid films and it would have been a huge disappointment if that had happened. But then I remembered how much detail he left her in his note on the map - his address, his phone number, a promise to see her again. He planned to stay in her life and continue helping her, which wouldn't include a wild, nihilistic gesture and then another abandonment. I think he would warn the uncle and make sure the mother wouldn't place the girl at risk again. I don't think he would presume on his own that the girl would want to go to the police and through the courts. If she did, I think he would support her. If people can bond over anime, surely two people who experienced something this meaningful can as well.
shareWhy would he give up his life for a flaky teen-age girl?