MovieChat Forums > Upstream Color (2013) Discussion > Killing God is the only way forward

Killing God is the only way forward

posted 11 years ago by notavailableinoz
55 replies | jump to latest

The Sampler is God, presented as the ambivalent creator that such a higher power would likely be.

The worm is man's infectious and twisted interpretation of God. The depression, anxiety and suffering we put ourselves through while questioning the motives, or complete absence of, a higher purpose or plan.

God sees us as pigs, though not by insult. We are simply a creation with broad characteristics. He cannot comprehend or understand our complexity, because He is not us and doesn't understand what it is to be us. Just as we can never hope to understand what it is to be a higher power.

Our world is a free range (free will) yard with limited boundaries, where He is content to observe and only compelled to intervene when those boundaries are crossed.

He is just the creator, and not the guide. But the worm promises a different story. A story with rewards for obedience and blind faith. And when you find yourself alone and disoriented when life exposes the harsh reality and loneliness of our creation, you search for meaning.

It is telling that the worm is first inflicted on the young, who have yet to form their own world view and are susceptible to leaders. Other times, the worm is forced on broken people who are searching for answers in their tragedies.

Sometimes a broken person will catch a glimpse of God as He truly is. It is in these moments that we realise His lack of actual presence and control in our lives. This is a profound realisation for the creation, and a disconcerting one for the creator. He has always known this, but it is another thing entirely to see its recognition on the face of something you previously considered to be simply a creation of broad characteristics.

It is only after killing God that we can move forward in a meaningful way. Accepting a life without the assistance or guidance of a higher power means we are left to care for each other. It is in these final scenes of the film that we see once broken characters at their happiest and most compassionate.

With the worm dead, the Thief is exposed for what he is and left empty, with no further way to cultivate and spread the worm. Meanwhile, his impressionable followers look on in shock, and even try to help search for the thing they once believed in. But it cannot be found.

In the end, all we have is each other. It doesn't matter where we came from. We're all alone in it together. And once we all realise it, we can move forward together in unity.

[–] remembervhs 10 years ago

I don't think that the movie is preaching anything nearly this specific. I believe that it is about the connections between people and how something that someone is totally unaware of can affect them deeply and guide them in ways that they can't understand.

[–] augurae 9 years ago

This is an interesting interpretation although a far fetched one.

I don't think there's enough parallel you can draw from this movie's plot to match your luciferianist/satanist view.

Because if the Sampler is God (and I guess the guy and girl are Adam & Eve), who is the Thief? What does the blue liquid represents? Also what is the book they're made to read and what does the soundtrack account for?

[–] oyster_without_soul 9 years ago

The worm could represent all kind of ideas that are absorbed by human mind and start affecting it to the point of controlling that individual and its life. Someone who is highly anti-theistic (also an idea that has a hold on someone) may see it as a symbol for oppressive religion, someone who is anti-capitalistic (again, an idea), may regard it as a symbol for oppressive capitalism, etc. But in the end it is - a worm.

"The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." O. Wilde

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Lycian 8 years ago

Unfortunately "notavailableinoz" is very wrong with his interpretations.

On the other hand, his posts show us how ignorant he is about The God and religion-in-general.

Let's clarify some points for The Ignorant who call himself "anti-theist."

1. "The Sampler is God"
Well, no.
The God doesn't need to "study" anything to learn. He already knows everything.
You can't "look at" and "see" The God by definition (she looks at the Sampler and sees him).
You can't kill The God by definition (she kills the Sampler).

2. "He cannot comprehend or understand our complexity"
Well, no.
The God is omniscient. He knows everything. His knowledge is infinite. He knows everything at the very beginning.
Everything exists because he created it and he knows everything about it.
Nothing is "complex" for The God.

3. "He is just the creator, and not the guide"
Well, no.
The God will create and let it go away? The God is not an irresponsible entity like a heroin addict mother. He guides.
Nothing can "live" without his knowledge. He decides. So there is no such a thing as "non-guiding creator"

4. "the worm is first inflicted on the young... other times... broken people"
Well, no.
If the worm represents "belief in The God" then only a strong mind can do it appropriately. The weak mind will understand The God, well, weakly.
Kids and weak people can only have a "weak" understanding of The God. You need to learn a lot to understand The God. The ignorant will likely be an idolatrous person.
The worm is "planted" on people by force, in opposition to their desire. You can't make someone believe in The God by force. A human being can "believe" in The God only through by his own free will, voluntarily.

5. "we realise His lack of actual presence and control in our lives"
Well, no.
The God is omnipotent by definition. Meaning there is no such a thing as "The God being unable to control." His power and knowledge is infinite. Nothing can exist independent of his knowledge and power.
If you think or feel that The God "failed to control your life" then you don't know what The God is. You don't know how he knows and control things, either.

6. "Accepting a life without the assistance or guidance of a higher power means we are left to care for each other"
Well, no.
Atheists care for each other while believers do not? You are a true example of an atheist. As ignorant as a piece of stone.

7. "we see once broken characters at their happiest and most compassionate"
Well, no.
Initially, we don't see that at the final scene.
When you deny the existence of The God you will be at your "happiest and most compassionate"? Hahaha! I don't even need to comment on this one.

8. "once we all realise it, we can move forward together in unity"
Well, no.
There were places in the world with large populations for centuries not believing The God. Did they "move forward together in unity"?
In China, most of the people are atheist. Are they "moving forward together in unity"?
In Ancient Rome, everyone was an atheist. They didn't believe in The God (theos) but worshiped idols. Did they "move forward together in unity"?
In USSR, atheism was official religion of the state and everyone was forced to be one by brute force. Did they "move forward together in unity"?
How come being an atheist makes humanity "move forward together in unity"?

9. "There are dozens of different worms, all proclaiming to know the truth, being sold and forced upon people by Thieves"
Well, no.
Thieves are "forcing" people to believe in The God? Who are those thieves? Where do they "force" people to believe in The God.
You can't force people to believe in The God. You can believe only voluntarily.
Atheist states literally "forced" people NOT TO believe in The God. This is what we know for sure.
The worm makes you literally, truly be in a mood. You can "fake" believing in The God. But you can't believe The God just because someone forced you.
By definition, belief is something that you can't force people to have.

10. "Transcribe a page from the book and add to the chain, be rewarded with a sip of water (that is proclaimed to be the most amazing thing ever tasted). That doesn't sound like indoctrination?"
Well, no.
People believe in The God "without reading a single line of a book."
Belief in The God is a personal, existential, voluntary act. Not a product of "indoctrination." Indoctrination is for ideologies. Just like Marxism, Nazism, Maoism, etc.
Religious texts are not for making people believe in The God, rather, for informing them about what they are believing in.

You are an atheist. An indoctrinated one. You are mixing being atheist with believing in The God. You were indoctrinated. So you think believers were indoctrinated too. Such a miserable way of thinking.

I pity on you.

11. "behaving like they are suddenly in sync with each other"
Hahaha!
Believing in The God "frees" you from "getting in line" by The Powerful. It is a shield that protects you from "uniformity."
Belief makes people be. It enables plurality.
Atheism makes people "uniform" and "in sych with The Powerful" and "in line." This is why believers developed numerous cultures which all are different. But secularism destroyed all cultures and brought a "uniform world."

Atheism/secularism only brings like minded uniform individuals in a streamlined world.

12. "Depending on what you believe, there is either a creator, or there is not"
Well, no.
The God exists independent of your belief.
God's existence is not a probability.
It is an inevitability.

13. "they are either powerless or unwilling to intervene in our free-will design, or they are all-powerful and they inflict random suffering out of cruelty"
Hahaha!
Well, no.
The last word of an atheist. How predictable you all are. All uniform. "Problem of evil as the last weapon." Hahaha.
The God is omnipotent and benevolent.
The God is capable of everything. At the very beginning, everything happens because he creates it.
There is suffering because The God didn't create a "paradise." There are consequences of being a human on this universe. The God has a created the universe in this way. There is a purpose for everything.
The God created humans with free will. There can't be a universe in which humans have free will and there is no suffering.
Free will, at first place, means "ability to do evil"
This is a test for humans.
...

You may be an atheist. But ignorance is not an excuse. Learn the God first. Then, criticize.
Don't confuse belief in The God with ideologies.
Don't confuse believing in The God with being in ideological/party lines.
Don't confuse The God with idols.

If you do, it will be your loss. Not of The God or ours.

*******************
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=15227539

[–] daniel4242 8 years ago

Actually the true loss is not for someone who loves life, happiness, logic and reason, but for someone blindly following a non-existent, life destroying, creativity sapping entity.

But good luck with your proselytizing. I find more courage and hope in people who see through it than those that "think" blind obedience is a virtue..

I don't normally respond to such ramblings, but 13 "points"? Come on. I just wanted to read some interpretations of the movie, not a Cliff's notes version off the bible, koran or torah.

[–] alx9 (72) 7 years ago

Overlaying any layer of meaning is the prerogative of the viewer, but compared to Primer, this was pretty straight forward film.

As they saying goes goes, "The man with blue tinted glasses sees blue everywhere."