Nathen and his daugther - my issue with the dinner scene...

The dinner scene is an interesting one. As one who works with high school girls alot in my line of work, I think you could do a hilarious parody of this scene--in real life, most girls would probably be texting, not even making eye contact, while their dad was spilling his heart out. Then she would order a salad, have 3 bites of it, and ask the dad to leave before he's even finished so she can watch the latest episode of Glee.

However, I think the scene works. At this stage in the film, all of the guys are trying to do the "courageous" thing...Adam turning in his partner, Javier doing the honest thing at the job, David reconciling with the mother of his child. Nathan is technically trying to do the right thing by telling his daughter that the reason he is protective of her is because he loves her so much and wants the absolute best for her. That would not be east to do as a dad...it would be tough to take a punch in the gut from your daughter if she didn't respond well. Bevel is such a genuine guy and the daughter is good in the scene as well, and this makes it work. I think you could make a criticism that occasionally it would be more interesting if things didn't always work out so well. For example, I would have liked a little more tension in the scene when Adam talks to Shane in the jail. In real life, would Shane be so apologetic? Tension =drama. I wouldn't have minded that they reconciled by the end of the scene, but it might have been more interesting if it took a while to get there.

Back to Nathan and the ring. I thought the ring thing was maybe a little over the top. Up until then, I think its a perfectly good scene. I don't think there's anything wrong with a parent requiring they know who their kid is going to date before they date them...that's good parenting.

Let me start out by saying that I agree with most of what you said. This parental involvement hits a sore spot with me too because of how I was raised. In my cult-like childhood, the kids (especially the girls) had little to no say-so in who they marry, so anything that flirts with that makes me very uncomfortable. I've seen the mess that kind of thinking creates, and it was disturbing, to say the least, to see that in what I thought was a sane Christian movie. Hopefully, it was just there as an emotional gimmick to get all the moms out there crying. Even so, though, it was a radical, cult-Christianity twist that I don't like seeing from Sherwood.

All that being said, you say that only you and God know who's best for you. I would argue only God knows who's best for you. I think it's kind of a gamble no matter who you decide to marry. The distinction is that you as the one getting married should be making the decision, not your parents. Does that mean you know who's best? No, but it does mean that your parents have no business telling you who to marry. They can offer advice, but the decision is yours...

That dinner scene does really happen. My wife's father did that exact same thing and she wore her purity ring for 14 years until the day I married her. On our wedding day, I took off the purity ring from her hand and gave it to her parents.

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Not to be rude, but use your brain.

You obviously don't have the same type relationship with your father as Nathan did with his daughter in the movie. Not saying this is a good or bad thing, please don't take that as an insult or put down. You and your dad may have the best relationship a father and daughter can have. But it's different than what Nathan and his daughter have. This scene shows the relationship the two of them have after the events of the story have unfolded. Like most of the posters here are saying, is it typical? No of course not.

Possibly in the 1950's the scene would have felt more real to people. Parents relationships have changed throughout human history, and continue to change. In today's two income family, the relationships of parent to child is different than it was when one parent, usually the father, was the only income source of the family.

I personally felt the scene was special because in today's world, something like that is very rare. And possible. Nathan saw through his friends eyes what can happen to loved ones. He wanted the best for his daughter. He didn't force her to do anything, only asked her to listen to what he had to say. Like you I feel most young women most likely wouldn't follow through or just wouldn't really pay attention. But it is still possible. People do still build special relationships like this with their children.

Another thing to think about, just because she reacted the way she did, promised her father like she did, it didn't mean sometime in the future she breaks the agreement. I'd like to think she would follow through of course, but I also realize, some guy will/may catch her eye/heart and Dad won't like him....

I am a young woman and can relate very well to the scene between Nathan and his daughter. Before even seeing this movie, my father had a similar plan for his three daughters of varying ages. Instead of rings, he purchased necklaces in the shape of hearts. The hearts read, "He who holds the key can unlock my heart".

And right now, there is a chain around my daddy's neck holding three keys. To some, that may seem lame. To me, it was the sweetest thing that anyone has ever done. I am the oldest of the three daughters and I am currently the same age that my parents were when they were married. My father and I talk often about the realization that I am growing up and will eventually meet the man that God has for me. He acknowledges that I am a young woman and allows me to make my own decisions, but he always offers his advice and sage wisdom. And he has always made it clear that he trusts my judgment. In return, I have always made it clear that if or when I get married, I would like my beloved to ask for my daddy's permission. Not because I can't live my own life or make my own decisions, but because I believe it's a beautiful reflection of the relationship I have with both my earthly father and my Heavenly Father. I don't need my earthly daddy's permission to get hitched, but I refuse to submit myself to a man for the rest of my life without first knowing that he is the man my Heavenly Father has intended for me.

I, in no way, find my father's gift incestuous or perverted. He's not saying that he's married to me; he's simply saying that God has entrusted my heart to him, to cherish and to protect, until the right one comes along. My daddy is NOT my husband; my Jesus is.

My earthly daddy won't decide who is the right one for me and I honestly don't think that was the point. Nathan didn't want to make that decision for his daughter; he was committing himself to listening to God and not allowing his own bias and expectations to get in the way. When you fully hand over a situation and surrender to God's will, you can't allow yourself to get in the way. It took courage for Nathan to admit that to his daughter. I can only imagine that giving over control, especially when it comes to the heart of your little girl, is a difficult task.

And as for your last point...no disrespect intended, but I would be (and was) willing to agree to a deal like that. My sisters were willing to agree as well.



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I didn't read every comment, so I apologize if it's been said. When I saw this scene I couldn't help but wish that my dad had done this for me. When I was fifteen I made the choice to ask my mom for a purity ring. She took me shopping, and I got one. It will be replaced with an engagement ring (I'll move my purity ring to my right hand until after the wedding). I agree that I thought it was weird that he said "wedding ring" not "engagement ring" but I think it was more about the implication that purity should last through the engagement.

As for parents helping choose a boyfriend/girlfriend, the rule for me was no dating until I was 16. My first boyfriend wasn't until I was 17, but I wish that my parents had had more say, or rather that I had listened to their say. I am 22 now, and I have learned that if my mom doesn't approve, she is probably right.

To the OP - can i ask how old you are? I am one of people in opposition to you and the funny thing is that while you can't understand why people like me believe the way you do, people like me can't understand why people like you believe the way you do.

If you have never been married, how could you know who would make the best husband for you? Marriage brings with it all sorts of challenges and experiences that are impossible to realize unless you've been there.

Who would know more if an 18 year-old girl is ready for marriage, the 18-year old girl who has never been married or two people who have been married for 20 years and know her better than any other man?

Who would know better if a boy has the attributes to make a good husband for their daughter, the 18-year old daughter who has never been married or her parents who have been married for 20 years and know their daughter better than any other man?

The problem is that you're assuming that, since you and this boy love each other, you are equipped for marriage. If you have never been married, you cannot know the qualities to look for in a husband nearly as well as someone who has been there. You're assuming that the man you have picked is the right one to be your husband even though you have no experience having a husband. Your parents have the benefit of hindsight and experience and can see down the road better than you can.

Promise rings are given only by the father. Anyone who cares about a young lady can give her one. But it's up to her to follow though with it.

If you're not a man, and clearly you are not, then you don't know what goes through a man's head. Fathers know what to look for in guys for their daughters. Well, any GOOD father does. Men know what young men are out for in their youth, because they themselves went through the same thing. So of course dads are apt to turn away a young guy with sagging pants and an attitude of disrespect. If the guy can't respect her dad, he mostly likely won't respect her.

1) I saw nothing incestuous about him giving his daughter a promise ring. And yes a daughter does belong to her dad until he gives her away at the wedding.

2) Yes, a girl can wear an engagement ring. Of course!!! What's the point of an engagement ring if not to wear it? Use your not-so-common sense.

3) At 15, no girl, or boy for that matter, should even be considering dating. They are way too immature and they have no idea about life, let alone love. Did you even see the guy that Jade wanted to date? No decent father would let his daughter date him. Very disrespectful and he even joined a gang for crying out loud! Like I said before, if a guy will disrespect her dad, he likely will disrespect her.

4) I know of several young ladies that have worn promise rings. There's nothing wrong with it either. These girls are less likely to have a physical relatonship with a guy and end up pregnant before marriage.

There's nothing wrong with a young lady dating, but this girl was 15. She'd be dating every guy out there and her reputation would most likely be tarnished. When she reaches 18 or so, then she should be able to date, and only with her parents consent.

But everybody has their own opinions. They just happen to be wrong.




Keep my name off your lips and I'll keep my fist off your face.